High Carbon High

[SgtTowser]

I’m coming out right now: I have fallen in love with high carbon steel knives.

I don’t mean just Damascus. I love the silver grey cast of pure, lowly esteemed, old fashioned, high carbon steel—the stuff that everyone runs from because it rusts!

I have no fear of rust—none at all. I even like a little rust sometimes, just because it makes me clean it up. But I use a wax on a high carbon pocket knife and it really never needs a clean up. Wax stops rust dead. Just dry it off. And apply a little wax and it’s ready.

I have a small tail lock COYOTE made in Providence that has fine brass bolsters and green Delrin, saw cut scales with not two, not three, but four brass pins holding it together! All you GEC fans will understand four pin construction. The market thinks a Coyote tail lock with high carbon steel is worth nothing. Wrong! I LOVE this knife. This knife is to die for, if you love high carbon, as I do now.

Like many, I got my first taste of HC on a Mora, and I had a snit, because it rusted on me. I didn’t know about wax back then. Now I do and I love those HC Moras again.

But my heavyweight favorite among my HC blades is “Betty”, my Briddell No. 860 6” meat cleaver!!!

I have had racks of ribs literally jump off the butcher block and run when they see me coming with Betty  all dark grey and glistening with olive oil.

Like Griswold cast iron skillets and Dutch ovens, Betty is actually enhanced by rust. Betty is like a real red head. She wouldn’t look right without a little rust color around her edges.

Betty is the law in our kitchen. When Betty comes down, things come APART.

There is no sawing with Betty, though she can’t take a great edge and could be used like fiddle bow if someone wanted to. But why would ANYONE want to?!!!

Betty and Coyote are the opposite ends of my love affair with high carbon blades.

I hope you will share some of your high carbon cutting devices on this thread.

Thanks in advance.

And the thinner the better, or the thicker the best.

P.S.: Note the Spyderhole on Betty. Just like on some of Sal’s fixies. Every thing old is new again!

[David]

I been a fan of High Carbon Steel since I was young. Which means a looooooooong time.     

[cody6268]

In my opinion, if you want a knife to stand up to heavy use (which for me, chipping is a big issue when cutting things like weed eater string), and you don't want to spring for one of the higher end steels (like M4, D2, or S30V), go with most carbon steels. I really like 1085 (as used by Boker when they made knives here) and 1095. 1075 (as used on older Colonial knives and current Ontario Spec Plus series fixed blades) is a little soft, but works.

I have a Spanish Joker in carbon steel. I was repairing a gate, and didn't have any wire cutters. One of the female hinge ends was missing, and electric fence wire was holding it on. The Joker had just been sharpened. It went through the wire with no damage. Which surprised the heck out of me. I think it was C70 or something lower end Euro like that. Probably would not have hurt a 420HC Buck 110, but would likely have ruined an 8Cr13MoV, everyone else's 420HC, or 440A blade as most knives that cost $10 are.

I didn't know they made a smaller Coyote. I thought the only one they made was equal in size to the Buck 110/Schrade USA LB-7.

[SteveC]

Also a fan of high carbon steel   

[SgtTowser]

cody6268

You were much more articulate about the virtues of high carbon. Thanks for weighing in.

Yes, the Coyote Tail Lock came In two  sizes, and yes the 110 size is what I mostly see. It is a solid knife in either size.

Interestingly, 5-7 years back I read a thread I have long forgotten the location of in which the son of the owner of the Providence knife manufacturer of Coyote said his father was advised that the company needed a low price brand to compete with Japanese imports back in the 1960s or 1970s. His father, an immigrant from Italy, had long prided himself on making solid, affordable knives under the Colonial brand. His dad said he did not want to sell cheap, non durable knives, so he just took his Colonial (or was it imperial?) tail locks and put green Delrin scales on them and only sold them with high carbon steel blades, which he thought were better than stainless steel anyway, even though high carbon had fallen out of style.

I got the impression from the son that the father thought It would be cheaper to just change scales and names and cut the price, rather than design a new knife built cheaply. His son said his father was very smart, clever and skillful, but kind of old fashioned. He thought all customers deserved a serviceable, well made knife, even if they it weren’t made to highest standards.

 I got the idea he was like a lot of Europeans that came to America. I met a lot of these persons in my early childhood and learned about them from their children my age) later. They knew the mastercraftsman tradition, but did not like how European knives were made either superbly for the rich, or non-durably for the plebes. They liked the American ideal of good, but not great quality and durability for all, rather than finesse and cost cutting for the many.

The son said they cut lots of corners on Production of knives. I liked his candor. All large market firms in the real world have to make trade offs. They did not try to make every knife perfectly, nor did every knife always operate effortlessly from the factory. But the parts were durable and I reckon the old man thought an American had enough sense to insert a flat head screw driver between the liners and twist until the blades moved with the desired resistance. I reckon he also thought if they got the grinds right, an American knew how to sharpen a knife if the edge was not perfect. He wanted the knives to be durable and robust. I think they were.

Was a Miller Brothers. from Meridan CT better? Of course. Did the old man know how to make a knife as well? Of course. He picked a lower market and served it.

I do not recall the son explaining  “ultra-honed,” or why that was used on certain Rangers (another Colonial brand), but not on Coyotes.

If I have misrepresented the son, or his father, I apologize. It was a long time ago that I read the thread. I know I respected the son and the father very much, after reading what the son had to say. 

Do you know of any modern mass production manufacturers making high carbon traditional folders, where the steel still looks like HC? or HC moderns (Non Damascus) these days?  I am tired of all the acid wash finishes. I want the real old thing. 

P.S.: I love my SAKs, but some days I really like an HC folder.

[SgtTowser]

David,

I’m not saying I’m old, but I helped edit some of the Dead Sea Scrolls!

If the old do not tell the young what was, there is only history written by winners that have to cover up what they did to win.

Young persons need to hear there was a time before tacticool, and a steel before M-390.

[Chako]

I do like high carbon in my sword blades.

[David]

I have a few Colonial knives. They are good knives that a working man can afford.   

[SgtTowser]

David,

Yes, Colonials, Rangers, and Coyotes, these were a ton of blade for the low end of the market.. 

[toolguy]

Buck Knife company has made many knives using 5160 carbon steel in recent years.

Here some examples.

[toolguy]

More 112's in 5160.

[toolguy]

Some more from Buck.

The first photo shows a 119 in 5160 at the bottom.

The second photo shows a 119,at the top,with brass accoutrements with the Slim-line handle configuration.

[toolguy]

This is Randall Made model 8 Trout and Bird in carbon steel.

[SgtTowser]

Thank you, tool guy!!!!!

I love Bucks and now I have to find a 110 and a 119.

By any chance did Buck make any 112 s in 5160?  I would like to pick up a mate for my 112 in S30V. Oops, now I see the pics above. Yessssssss.

These are my ideals. So glad you woke me to them.

Dare I ask? Has Spyderco made any folders with 5160 the last ten years or so?

[David]

Not that I know of. Spyderco has made a Mule and a Military in 52100. Some might not consider it pure high carbon steel as its has a touch over 1% chromium in it. The Bushcraft was made in O-1 steel.

[SgtTowser]

OMG! That Randle is insanely great!!!!

[toolguy]

Thank you, tool guy!!!!!
I love Bucks and now I have to find a 110 and a 119.
By any chance did Buck make any 112 s in 5160?  I would like to pick up a mate for my 112 in S30V. Oops, now I see the pics above. Yessssssss.
These are my ideals. So glad you woke me to them.
Dare I ask? Has Spyderco made any folders with 5160 the last ten years or so?

This dealer has pioneered the use of 5160 in the Buck line-up.

https://copperandclad.com/

[Aloha]

How about a GENZOW HATCHETHAWK in 5160 from Spyderco? 

[SgtTowser]

Toolguy

Very interesting buck exclusives. Impressive!

 

[SgtTowser]

Aloha,

covered on hatchets now, but good future reference.

[Barry Rowland]

I love my high carbon steel knives.  To this day, a lot of the farmers in my area refuse to carry stainless.

[SgtTowser]

Barry,

It’s hard to explain to folks that haven’t used them.

Also, use wax on them and rust is really not that much of a concern. I use a kind of wax developed by the British Museum of Natural History (their equivalent of our Smithsonian). They use it on all ancient metal artifacts as a protection against oxidization. It works great on any knife you really can’t bear to see a little rust on, and don’t want to oil  and watch constantly. Sorry I can’t think of the product name. Seems a little pricey at first but a teeny amount goes a long way.

[toolguy]

It's Renaissance Wax or Ren Wax.

I've been using it for several decades.

[toolguy]

This is another Buck 112 using 5160 steel for a drop point blade.

[Barry Rowland]

I've even used Case paste on mine.  I have been a high carbon steel fan for many years. 

[SgtTowser]

Toolguy

Thanks for recalling it. I know I am mostly in over my head here with all of you, but I greatly appreciate you cutting me some slack. I am learning a lot every day now. And I am grateful to all.

[SgtTowser]

Barry

Thanks for mentioning Case paste.These are the kinds of tid bits that the newbies down the road will appreciate. I had heard of it, but it is reassuring to know that someone that knows a bit about knives has tried it and found it helpful.

[Barry Rowland]

Thanks Sgt T!  Yes, it works like a charm.

[Aloha]

I have Frog Lube oil and paste.  I've used both and they do the trick on the items I have stored away.  I've also made my own paste using beeswax and mineral oil that I've used on my leather and wood handles.  It seems to work good on my Old Hickory carbon steel blade as well. 

I've been using my Carbon steel Great Eastern Cutlery fixed blade a lot and the patina developed also keeps surface rusting away ( yes I know this sounds  )   . 

[David]

Buck 112 in 5160