Will multis ever feature a No2 pozi drive ?

[appletree_man]

Built in I mean, not a removable bit.
I believe i'm correct in saying the Pozi No2 is the most used screw in the UK and mainland Europe but as far as I know no multi manufacturer caters for it.
Even Victorinox feature Phillips drive on their STs. Is the USA market just too big to ignore ?

[DaveK]

I've pondered this a few times. Isn't the "phillips" driver on most tools (e.g. the LM Core) a sort of hybrid between true Phillips and Pozi-drive anyway?

I may be well off the mark, but one of the reasons I am continually banging on about the Core's drivers is that it works so well on pozi screw heads. I'm sure I remember true phillips being a much steeper angle to the point.

[glorn]

This raises a question for me... is it possible that the Phillips driver woes so many mention in regard to SAKs and Swisstools is due to the fact that it is a Posi No. 2 and not a Phillips at all? So here we are, using it on Phillips, and it not designed for that. Perhaps it works like a charm on Posi?


Thinking out loud here.

[Leatherman123]

They label it as a philips driver.  The gripe people have with the Swiss drivers are that they are too polished and rounded..

[DaveK]

This raises a question for me... is it possible that the Phillips driver woes so many mention in regard to SAKs and Swisstools is due to the fact that it is a Posi No. 2 and not a Phillips at all? So here we are, using it on Phillips, and it not designed for that. Perhaps it works like a charm on Posi?


Thinking out loud here.

It's a good theory, but I don't think correct. In fact, in addition to the "polish" theory, I actually think that the Vic phillips is more "phillips-like" than the LM phillips.

Think I'm going to dig around on this though, as it needs answers!!

[gafftapegreenia]

I always look at the Leatherman phillips as a sort of "compromised hybrid" of a #1 and #2 phillips....a #1.5 perhaps?

[DaveK]

From that bastion of truth that is Wikepedia, this is a true Phillips screw head, as invented by Henry F Phillips himself:



There's no real equivalent pic of a pozi, but there is this:

Differences

The differences lie in the way that the drivers are machined. The Phillips driver has four simple slots cut out of it, whereas in the case of the Pozidriv, each slot is the result of two machining processes at right angles. The result of this is that the arms of the cross are parallel-sided in the case of Pozidriv, and tapered in the case of Phillips. The pozidriv has four additional points of contact, and does not have the rounded corners that the Phillips screw drive has. In ANSI standards it is referred to as type IA.

The pozidriv screw can easily be distinguished by a line embossed in the screw head at 45 degrees to the slots for the driver. Thus, if the driver slots are at 0, 90, 180 and 270 degrees, the marker lines are at 45, 135, 225 and 315 degrees.

Advantages over Phillips type

This design is intended to decrease the likelihood that the Pozidriv screwdriver will slip out, provide a greater driving surface, and decrease wear and tear.[2] The marker lines on a Pozidriv screwdriver will not fit a Phillips screw correctly, and are likely to slip or tear out the screw head. Phillips screwdrivers will fit in and turn Pozidriv screws, but will cam out if enough torque is applied, potentially stripping the screw.

Disadvantages

The chief disadvantage of Pozidriv screws is that they are visually quite similar to Phillips, thus many people are unaware of the difference or do not own the correct drivers for them, and use incorrect screwdrivers. This results in difficulty in unscrewing the screw and in damage to the slot, rendering any subsequent use of a correct screwdriver unsatisfactory.

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pozidriv

I wonder (and this might have been Glorn's point), whether the Vic is a true Phillips, whereas LM have gone for the hybrid approach. The vast majority of the screws I come across are pozi, including the ones that caused myself and the Swisstool X to fall out!

[gafftapegreenia]

As usual the Google as a perfect pic:


But really, this whole arguement should be moot an Robertson should become universal. Square drive for the win.

[DaveK]

That seems pretty consistent with the wiki article.

I'm sure I was told that the actual shape of the slots were different between pozi and phillips - but I could easily have misremembered, it was a long time ago.

I'm just comparing the drivers on a Swisschamp and Core at the moment, and the shape of the drivers is really quite different.

I'm starting to think that the size of the screw is going to make a world of difference to how the Vic and LM drivers perform.

[Sea Monster]

ho ho, there is FAR more to it than that.

Let me find my link...

Here we go (good thing it took me less than 15 minutes to find!)

http://www.instructables.com/id/When_a_Phillips_is_not_a_Phillips/


Cram that in your bit exchanger and.....turn it?


(and that's not even a comprehensive list of driver styles!)

[max6166]

I think pozi drivers are also flat at the tip, while phillips are pointed.