Def Droning on again

[Grant Lamontagne]

I'm glad you like them!

I shot some interesting video that day- I had tried to get some low angle video of the snow, only to end up actually hitting some snow that was slightly higher.  With no obstacle sensors, the Anafi is much more susceptible to collision than my Phantom 4 or Mini 3.

Luckily it just seemed on the surface, and didn't look nearly as cool on video as it did in person.

Still, it didn't crash and stayed in the air, so it wasn't a bad thing!

Def

[powernoodle]

The sale of DJI drones may be prohibited in the United States.  Because DJI is owned in part by the Chinese government, the use of DJI drones by United States governmental entities is already banned.  The new ban, if enacted, would prohibit the sale of DJI to all persons in the United States.

I understand the restriction on the use of drones by United States governmental entities.  I tend not to favor the proposed new ban on all sales in the United States.

https://apnews.com/buyline-shopping/article/dji-drone-ban-in-the-us

[Grant Lamontagne]

Yes, I have been following this closely.  This is not the first time this has been a possibility.

The issue is that DJI controls somewhere around 80% of the drone market, largely because they do offer the best drones, the most options and at the best pricing.

The major competitors for DJI are Skydio (US based company), Holy Stone (another China based company), Autel (China) and Parrot from France.  I've flown several of the drones from the other manufacturers (and I even have a Parrot Anafi in my airfleet) but none of them really compare to the DJI offerings in terms of quality, versatility or functionality.

That's why they are so dominant in the market and the first choice of professionals and government agencies.  They are just that good.

Skydio actually had some better qualities, but the cost of the drone was on par with DJI offerings, but then you also had to pay a hefty subscription rate to use many (most) of it's superior features.   And, while it did a few things better than comparable DJI models, it was not nearly as user friendly or versatile as the DJI models.  That meant on top of paying more to operate it, unless you were a one trick pony, you had to also buy other drones to do other things.

The new Skydio X10 is amazingly impressive, but priced the same as a brand new entry level car.  It's hard to justify paying that much for a toy when you could have a Kia Rio for the same $$.

Parrot was working with the US government for a while to develop DJI replacements and came out with the Anafi USA, but it still suffered from the connection issues that plagued the entire Anafi line all along.  And it still wasn't as good as the DJI offerings.

There are a bunch of other drones on the market like Atom and Splash but I am not hearing great things about them.  That having been said, I'd love a Splash drone as it's completely waterproof, and I enjoy snorkeling, fishing, boating, kayaking etc and I'd feel a lot better having a drone that would survive a dip!

Sadly, DJI is the best, and by a wide margin.

However, I do recognize the potential security threat, and I think it is a prudent move, although I wonder how much of a difference it makes when most of our phones are tracking (and documenting) everything anyway?

Still, I expect Canada to follow suit- we have already banned TikTok on all government issued devices for the same reason.  It's been a real hit to Megan, who manages (among other things) the social media accounts for a member of the Canadian Federal Government, but she's damned good at what she does and has managed to work with it anyway.

I just wish the other drone manufacturers could catch up to DJI, and maybe this is their opportunity.  Without DJI taking all the money, maybe someone like Skydio or Parrot can get a much needed boost and close the gap.

Def

[powernoodle]

I would like to have a new DJI drone with dedicated view screen, so I don't have to use my phone as a screen which is really suboptimal.  But hopefully if DJI disappears in the U.S., market forces will encourage newer and better drones from other makers.

[Grant Lamontagne]

That does exist and has for a bit.

The Mini 3 and Mini 4 are both available with a controller with a screen built in so you don't need your phone.  I think that controller also works with the Mavic series.

There was also a controller for the Phantom series that you could buy that had a screen built in to it.

While there are definitely benefits to having a permanent screen, I prefer to use my tablet or iPad.

Def

[Grant Lamontagne]

Last month while at a friend's cottage for the weekend I shot this video:

https://youtu.be/46SoeR7yZTc?si=rBDs2HHWHPDj44j4

I had set the drone to automatically follow this fishing boat, but as you can see, the further it went the thicker the fog was.... And when the drone finally lost the ship it was several hundred meters offshore, with pretty well zero visibility!

 

If it wasn't for the map/GPS functions of the drone I probably would have lost it!

Well, okay, the automatic return to home would have worked as well I guess, but that works with the GPS and mapping functions, so I count that in as well.

I suppose I could have also tried to gain altitude and rise above the fog, which wouldn't have been so bad since I think I was sitting at/near the top anyway.

I have video of returning to home (manually) but it's a very boring video as you can't see anything!

At one point it looks down and you can see water, looks up and you see blue sky (which is why I think I was near the top) but all around there was absolutely no indicator of which way Shore was.

It was kind of scary, even though I had every confidence I'd be able to bring it back.  Even so the absolute complete lack of visibility coupled with limited flight time is enough to keep it interesting!

Def

[Chako]

I liked that very much. 

[Grant Lamontagne]

I'm glad you liked it. 

I have another good one I shot this week that I'll post shortly!

Def

[derekmac]

I'm still rocking my Mini 2, but keep looking at the Mini 4 Pro.  I really can't justify it, but I want it lol.

[Grant Lamontagne]

I'm still rocking my Mini 2, but keep looking at the Mini 4 Pro.  I really can't justify it, but I want it lol.

The Mini 4 Pro is a great machine.  It's an upgrade to the Mini 3 Pro, which I have and think the Mini 3 Pro is an amazing drone.  Honestly, it's a serious upgrade from the Mini 2, a drone that I also thought was amazing.  The tech is moving so amazingly fast, and the tiny drones are insanely powerful now.  The Phantom series has been ended because the smaller Mavic series is so full featured, no one needs the Phantoms.  I don't think it's going to be very long until the Mavic series is removed in favor of expanding the Mini series even more, and I think that is going to give way something else.

I am just setting up the new DJI Neo and, while not perfect, it is, by far the most versatile drone that DJI has ever produced,  It's a flying Swiss Army Knife if ever there was one, flying on it's own, by voice command, with your phone, with a variety of standard controllers, or with the motion controller and FPV goggles.

Supposedly there is a new, affordable set of goggles coming next month, so I am waiting for those to try FPV, although I'll admit that was the main reason I got the Neo.

Def

[powernoodle]

the new DJI Neo

If I can get a controller with a video screen for that (like the DJI RC2), I think that will be my next purchase.  I previously spoke about how using my phone with the DJI Mavic Mini is really clumsy and not optimal.

I want optimal!   

[Grant Lamontagne]

You can indeed.

The Neo can fly by itself, it can fly by voice command, it can fly with a standard controller, it can fly with the controller with the built in screen, it can fly with the more advanced controller, and it can fly with goggles and a motion controller.

It is also 137g, well under the 250g limit for flying without a license, so it's pretty much open to anyone to fly pretty well anywhere.

Def

[powernoodle]

On the Amazon website:

"Due to platform compatibility issue, the DJI Fly app has been removed from Google Play. DJI Neo must be activated in the DJI Fly App, to ensure a better product usage experience, please go to the DJI official website to download the App before use."

I assume this is for Chinese spyware concerns.  I could always load the app on a 2nd, backup phone I have.   

Amazon links:

https://tinyurl.com/bajr634t

https://tinyurl.com/yfjv6a53

[Grant Lamontagne]

If you get the controller with the screen from DJI you won't have to download the app.  Its built right in.

Def

[Whoey]

Just saw some promos today of the new DJI NEO, some not so great comments about it but other nice features and hints it's a good entry point for getting into drones, so far I have resisted in spite Grant getting me to fly one of his earlier to DJI during one of my visits...

Apparently if you go for controller and goggles the Avata is a better bang for buck... but if you just grab a Neo for $200 it's gotta be a good starter...

[Grant Lamontagne]

First off, ignore all of the negatives you read online, this is an amazing drone.

It's no Avata, sure, but look at the price difference. 

The Neo isn't perfect, and yes, if you want to fly FPV, it isn't cheap either as the goggles are about $650 CDN, and another $110 for the motion controller on top of the $250 for the Neo, but it has one thing that the Avata doesn't- it's legal to fly.

The Avata is over 250g, which means that you need a license (in many countries) to fly it (legally), and, is subject to visual line of site (VLOS) rules, which means you can't fly it if you can't see it.  With the goggles on, you can't see it, and so to do it legally you need to have a spotter who can see it and relay the info to the pilot.

The Neo is about 135g, and so it's well below the limit, meaning none of that applies.  It also opens up a lot of areas that are restricted to the Avata, as sub 250g aren't as restricted in flight area as the 250g plus drones are.

That alone, I would say the Neo certainly makes up for a lot of shortcomings.

Also, the Neo does a lot the Avata doesn't, like the autonomous flight modes, particularly the follow mode.  From turning on to being in the air and filming is less than a minute, and the follow mode seems to work quite well.  You won't get the Avata to do that.  Imagine that you are out skiing or hiking or something and you want to film yourself doing something.  Just a few seconds and the drone is in the air, automatically recording, with little to no setup time.

It's basically a flying SAK- it may not do each of it's functions as well as a dedicated drone for each of those things, but it does a lot more than any dedicated drone can do.

Def

[powernoodle]

If you get the controller with the screen from DJI you won't have to download the app.  Its built right in.

Excellent sir, thank you.   

[Whoey]

11

First off, ignore all of the negatives you read online, this is an amazing drone.

It's no Avata, sure, but look at the price difference. 

The Neo isn't perfect, and yes, if you want to fly FPV, it isn't cheap either as the goggles are about $650 CDN, and another $110 for the motion controller on top of the $250 for the Neo, but it has one thing that the Avata doesn't- it's legal to fly.

The Avata is over 250g, which means that you need a license (in many countries) to fly it (legally), and, is subject to visual line of site (VLOS) rules, which means you can't fly it if you can't see it.  With the goggles on, you can't see it, and so to do it legally you need to have a spotter who can see it and relay the info to the pilot.

The Neo is about 135g, and so it's well below the limit, meaning none of that applies.  It also opens up a lot of areas that are restricted to the Avata, as sub 250g aren't as restricted in flight area as the 250g plus drones are.

That alone, I would say the Neo certainly makes up for a lot of shortcomings.

Also, the Neo does a lot the Avata doesn't, like the autonomous flight modes, particularly the follow mode.  From turning on to being in the air and filming is less than a minute, and the follow mode seems to work quite well.  You won't get the Avata to do that.  Imagine that you are out skiing or hiking or something and you want to film yourself doing something.  Just a few seconds and the drone is in the air, automatically recording, with little to no setup time.

It's basically a flying SAK- it may not do each of it's functions as well as a dedicated drone for each of those things, but it does a lot more than any dedicated drone can do.

Def

Interesting, the two big things were collision avoidance and return to start. Maybe ways to avoid that... I can't see me spending on the control or goggles just yet if I do get one. Definitely good shots to be had on the beach here. As usual I'll probably not make any decision until the neo 2 is released.

[Grant Lamontagne]

The Neo does have return to home.

The Avata 2 and the Neo have the same software based object avoidance through the camera, but neither have sensors beyond that.

They do have sensors underneath, but those are for holding position in the wind.

Honestly, I was drooling over the Avata 2 for some time, and I still am somewhat.  Its is built like a tank and I like the idea of an armored drone.

But, I think I prefer the easily replaceable drone even more.

By the way, the insurance for the Neo was less than $40 for two years, and the deductable is about $25, which means basically this thing is worth about two Big Mac combos if I destroy it.

While I have no deliberate interest on destroying it, knowing how easily and cheaply it can be replaced means I am likely to be willing to take more risks with it, and possibly get shots I never would otherwise.

Def

[powernoodle]

I ordered a Neo with RC 2 (video screen) controller.  And some accessories.  I use my current drone, I think its a Mavic Mini, just for goofing around, checking the roof of the Powernoodle Compound, taking pics of Christmas lights, etc.

[Grant Lamontagne]

I think you will enjoy it- it is a serious step up from the original Mavic Mini.  It really does have a lot of features that the Mini doesn't have and is much more versatile.  Plus with the enclosed props, it is a lot more resistant to crashing.

Def

[powernoodle]

The primary upgrade for me is the ability to use the RC 2 controller with video screen.  Connecting the Mavic Mini controller to my phone was awkward and not groovy.

 

[Grant Lamontagne]

I did a little experiment this morning- I fired up the Neo and my father's Mini 3 Pro (I left mine at home) and set them both to follow me.

They jockeyed for position at first as I began my walk up the driveway, but soon both settled into happy positions and followed me pretty well.  I made it up the driveway to the road, turned around and came back down the driveway, intending to go around one side of the house as an acid test- the trees overhang it pretty well, forming almost a tunnel. 

I figured that would be a good challenge, but just before I could get in there the Neo god caught in a tree, couldn't recover and went into auto landing mode.

I had a good laugh at it, shut down the Mini 3 Pro and came into the house as I was already late making breakfast.

When I looked at the video I really couldn't see much difference in quality, although it's obvious which footage was which, because I hadn't realized my father had left a filter on the M3P.   

A filter is basically like sunglasses, and as it was both cloudy and under tree cover, the video from the M3P is quite dark.   

But you can still make everything out. 

The obstacle avoidance sensors on the M3P I feel made it avoid things that the Neo may have hit- for example, the branch that forced the Neo to land is similar to ones that I have seen the M3P avoid.  Given that the M3P has exposed rotor blades while the Neo's are protected, obstacle avoidance isn't as big a necessity with the Neo.

It was cool to watch them position eachother in the beginning, and I have some neat video of them flying in front of eachother.  I don't know why, but I always think it's cool to have pictures and videos of drones in flight. 

Since the Neo is especially hard to see in the photo below, I cropped it and circled them both.  I'll say one thing for sure, with the little motors spinning for dear life, these were not very subtle when they were following me!  I knew when they were manouvering around because the pictures kept changing- other than that, I mostly ignored what they were doing and I just walked along.

Def

[Grant Lamontagne]

I did another experiment this morning that resulted in my father having one drone in front of him and one behind, wherever he went.

With the DJI Neo fully updated you get an option called Direction Tracking.  Direction Tracking is similar to Follow mode, but in Direction Tracking the drone flies in front of the subject.  As the subject moves forward, the Neo flies backwards to keep the subject in frame.  If the subject changes direction, the drone recognizes that and swoops to the side to try and keep in line with the direction the subject is traveling.  It's remarkably cool.

But, it has it's risks as well- the drone has no sensors, visual or otherwise on the back of it, so it won't know it is flying into something until it hits.

Since the blades are well protected on it, that's not as detrimental as any of the open blade designs like the Mini, Mavic, Phantom etc type drones, but it's still not ideal.

The Neo will also try to match your speed, which meant I had a perfectly fun game to play.

When it's time for the Neo to land, you simply hold your hand under it, and it lands on your palm.

But, as it is leading you, when you walk towards it to get it to land, it naturally flies away from you to keep it's distance.  If you go faster to go under it, it moves away faster.

I dared my father to try and get it to land in his hand, and laughed my ass off when he couldn't catch it.  My 84 year old father was chasing this drone around the yard like a small child chasing bubbles until he figured out the secret.  If you stop and hold still for three seconds, the drone will stop recording, come close and land in your hand, but as long as you keep moving, so will it.

Watching my father chase it around the yard was well worth the cost of the drone, all on it's own.   

Def

[Whoey]

Maybe when I get my Christmas bonus I'll order a Neo. I get a bunch of vouchers I can use on Amazon that should cover most if not all the cost. Phone/tablet control will do for now...

I still think it's not the ideal option for here with tendency for high wind, dark weather and having no object avoidance along with GPS return might be concerns, but as Grant mentioned it's pretty cheap and easy starter, and we have some great spots nearby that are prime for some drone content, and lots of people already doing it.

I do get the impression that Neo is intended for hero shots for influencers or people who are regularly doing video content (honestly a function I rarely use on my phones).

[Grant Lamontagne]

Pretty much, yeah.

Except that when using the tablet/phone option it flies extremely slowly and is limited to about 150 feet because it uses a wifi connection. 

Great if you are an influencer and want to film yourself (as you say) but without a few extras it's kind of limited.

But, with some extra geegaws like a controller or goggles, it really opens up.  I would highly recommend the Fly More package to get the charger, extra batteries and controller too.  I wish I'd gotten them, but I will eventually.

Def

[Grant Lamontagne]

Oh, and when used with a controller it does have the return to home feature, and according to some YT torture testers it can withstand quite a bit of wind.

Def

[Grant Lamontagne]

I just happened to have my Mini 3 Pro and my Neo out today and I thought it was a great opportunity to snap a couple of comparison photos.  As you can see, the Mini 3 Pro may be a small drone, but it is nowhere near as small as the Neo.

However, with the arms folded, the Mini 3 Pro becomes a bit more compact- sort of.

The Mini 3 Pro does appear to be quite small, but remember there is also a remote required to fly it.  The Neo can be flown autonomously or with your phone, meaning it is still a lot more compact because it doesn't need other stuff with it.  Now, if you are planning to bring the remote or goggles etc, then of course that changes things, but those are optional.  With the Mini 3 Pro, it's not optional- you absolutely need the remote.

Both have their advantages and disadvantages- the camera is better on the Mini 3 Pro, but the price tag is better in the Neo.  The Neo also can go places the Mini 3 can't, largely because the blades are protected and largely because it is super cheap to replace if bad things happen to it.

I really like the Neo.  I don't see it replacing the Mini 3 Pro any time soon, but it really does provide options that were previously unavailable such as being able to fly itself and go straight into a variety of tracking modes.  This is very handy if you want to be the subject of the video, or if you want to freak someone else.  Just turn it on ,set it to Follow mode and point it at them.  It will chase them for quite a ways before the battery dies.

Not that I have done that or condone anyone else doing it..... 

I've also thought to myself (since the Mini 2) that all the extra reinforcement around the folding joints must add a lot of mass to the drone, which seemed odd as the main point of the Mini series was that it be under 250g.  That's a hard target to meet (or at least it was) and so it seemed like it was unnecessary weight for no real reason.  The Neo addresses that by not having folding parts.

It's also worth pointing out that the folding joints of the Mini series (and it's originator, the Mavic series) are the points where these drones tend to be damaged in a crash.

Given the evolution of the Mini series after it's initial release, I have high hopes for the Neo and the series it is likely to spawn.

Def

[Whoey]

I know a lot of drones hover right on the weight limits... has anyone though of hot rod weight reduction (drilling out lots of holes in a grid) and then wrapping to keep the airflow consistent? I'm sure you should shed quite a bit without compromising the structural  integrity too much.

[Grant Lamontagne]

I have thought of that, and I am sure others have as well.  Weight reduction plans are usually aimed at increasing flight times rather than legal compliance though. 

That having been said, there is at least one person on the drone groups on FB that has cut away the prop guards on the Neo.  I don’t see much about how well it has worked, but the picture seems to circulate pretty frequently.

In the old days when half the drone market was home built units there used to be kits that you could strip the body panels off your drone and replace them with carbon fibre bodies, but I haven’t seen those in a while.

In short, I would imagine it is possible, doable and probably already done, but I don’t see a lot of it.

What I thought would be fun is that the law actually specified “take off weight” rather than “in flight weight” since technically it is weightless in flight.  My initial response was to tie a helium balloon to it to make any drone under 250g on take off.  The rotors would pop the balloon instantly once it’s i. The air and no longer be a problem.

You know, assuming the strong didn’t get caught in the rotors too!

All in all, the 250g limit was there to differentiate between serious drones and the toys kids get at Christmas time- what 7 year old is going to wait until the new year to get a license to fly the toy they opened in December?  The manufacturers just exploited that loophole, and in the time it takes for the governments of the world to try and develop a new law, the tech will exist to exploit loopholes there too.

I have a license just because I prefer to do things right, but at no point has anyone ever challenged me on it because I don’t fly dangerously or in places that I realistically shouldn’t.

There’s no legislation that can stop people from being smurfholes.

Def