EDC-TV- It's your show, what would you like to see?

[Grant Lamontagne]

We call EDC-TV the Podcast You Never Knew You Needed, from the Only Forum That Matters- Multitool.org.

That means it's YOUR show.  Yes, it's Inky, Abe and myself on camera, but we want to cover the topics that YOU want covered!

So let us know your thoughts, give us your input so we can make the shows that YOU want to see! 

Def

[Vidar]

I think you must sit on a treasure trove of topics and themes in the form of old threads that sparked much discussion or interest. Of course, more than half is probably about lard or smurfing some waves, but still. There must be gold in them mountains of logs. 

With Mythbusters gone we need some authoritative source of related myth busting. Does a SOG multitool really cut a round wire of a given size with half the force applied to the handles? Do stone washed knives rust faster and or does Victorinox electropolishing help? Are cheapo multitools included in cheap survival kit actually good / reliable for anything? Where did the Rambo knives go to die? Will taking a piece of some certified steel rolled by tons and tons of pressure and then banging it with a hammer, as opposed to just grinding, make for a better or worse knife after heat treatment? And so forth and so on.

A little section of weird and wonderful alternative uses of various tools? I'm sure there are many uses out there that was never intended but might be interesting.

[Grant Lamontagne]

It's funny you should mention the SOG thing because I actually designed a rig (I've never built it though) to test the pressure on the handle versus the pressure on the head just so that I could test the SOG Compound Leverage! 

Maybe soon we will get into some scientific testing- until then our budget is a little bit light for that kind of thing.  Maybe Discovery will like what we are doing and start throwing money at us too!   

Def

[Vidar]

The pressure on the head will surely be compound leverage, say 2:1 for simplicity. The issue with cutting is that the same compound leverage means the cutting jaw only opens half as much for a given hand size. Which given the head design means that for instance a round wire over some size will only go in to twice as far from the fulcrum as the same in normal pliers. And then you're about the same overall pressure wise. (But still with the SOG having a cutting action with less angle between the jaws).

The added twist is that the above only goes over a certain size of material to be cut. If you open the handles of normal pliers as much as your hand can use then the cutters will be at a certain distance from each other at the very root. Anything to be cut that is smaller than that, and thus can't get full advantage of its small size by getting closer to the fulcrum, should be relatively easier to cut with SOGs compound leverage.

Backyard science done well on a low budget is usually interesting.


 

[Farmer X]

Scientific testing would be great if the budget ever allows for it. As for forging vs. stock removal, the heat treat is more important than the variety of steel used.

What would I like to see? An episode dedicated to sharpening. And maybe everyone showing their most carried and used knives.

[Vidar]

As for forging vs. stock removal, the heat treat is more important than the variety of steel used.

I was kind of thinking that the same steel would be used for both, and with the intent of trying to get identical heat treatments. To the extent that isn't possible due to the process differences, then fair enough, then that difference is an inherent factor that comes along with the choice of process and should also be taken into account.

To me it seems that forging has both a higher high and a lower low than stock removal, so the answer is likely the rather boring "it depends". Still if that would make Grant recreate Forged in Fire behind his cabin then well worth it! 

[Grant Lamontagne]

My camp was almost on an episode of Burned in Fire over the summer, so that's probably as close as we are going to get any time soon!   

Those are good ideas for Abe to try someday though, as he is an accomplished knife maker and I am sure he'd be happy to try his hand at it when/if he gets a new shop set up.

And it's funny you should mention sharpening right now... I just finished editing the episode coming out on Friday and I had to do come fancy work to get rid of the sound of Abe sharpening stuff while we were recording.  With his headphones on he thought we couldn't hear it since he couldn't! 

We can definitely look at an episode where we talk about sharpeners and our favorite carry knives.  I think we have covered some of that a little bit in other episodes, but a deeper dive never hurt anyone!

Def

[Vidar]

Sounds like a potential educational moment to include for wannabe forgers. (Somehow that sounds wrong, but as my accent is officially noenglish I've decided it makes sense).

Maybe a how to get started for wannabe forgers could be a thing.

[Farmer X]

I was kind of thinking that the same steel would be used for both, and with the intent of trying to get identical heat treatments.

Some steels are better suited for forging than others.

As for the heat treat thing, Wayne Goddard once said that he's proven multiple times that a pedestrian steel with a good heat treat will outperform a super-steel with a bad heat treat. I know I found that passage somewhere, so when I can be bugged to find it again, I'll post it here.

[Vidar]

Some steels are better suited for forging than others.

True. But if we use different steels for stock removal and forging how can we tell whether any resulting differences are due to the steel or the process used? If we find a steel that is equally suitable for both then at least any differences are likely due to the process used. Failing to find such a steel another option might be to take whatever steel is best for each process and say steel qualities are part of the difference. But I suspect that might also come with a significant price difference, so then there is that factor. Should we compare equally priced steels then? Or equally priced end results as the processes will have different costs that maybe should be baked in? There are lots of rabbits down this hole, and I don't think there is a undisputed final answer anywhere in it. But, if someone happen to be making a pod cast, the discussing is likely better than finding a dead set answer anyway?

As for the heat treat thing, Wayne Goddard once said that he's proven multiple times that a pedestrian steel with a good heat treat will outperform a super-steel with a bad heat treat. I know I found that passage somewhere, so when I can be bugged to find it again, I'll post it here.

I fully believe that it is possible to utterly mess up any steel with horrific heat treatment, so I have no doubt that is true! 

That reminds me that I bought a hardening oven once from an online bankruptcy auction abroad. Those are often nice for getting low priced machinery. Ideally from a sudden bankruptcy as long protracted slow ones might have skipped on maintenance or repair for quite some time. Anyway, I was getting some other stuff from the same auction, and knew I had some leftover transport space. So I checked out if there were any semi-interesting objects with no or very bids. And I found this nice heat treating oven. The pictures shoved a little wheel for opening the door, and a slide system so the shelves could just all be dragged out at once. I had a worktable available to put it on with some power outlets nearby so no issue there.

I put in roughly USD 20 bid. Half an hour later I was the proud owner. Two weeks later it arrived. At first I didn't understand what I was looking at, but the transporter insisted it was mine... It was not a desktop heat treating oven. Instead it was about 2 meters wide by 2.5 meters long, and almost 2 meters high. The little handle was not a little handle but a big wheel for using both hands to lift up the heavy door. And that slide system wasn't so much a slide as rail tracks. And those shelves turned out to be a heavy cast iron rail wagon. My only defense was that there wasn't given any measurements, and it did kind of look like a desktop oven in the pictures. 

[Grant Lamontagne]

Wow, that is a deal!

I can only imagine how much propane you'd need to operate that one though!   

Whatever happened to it?  Do you still have it?  Have you ever used it, and if so, for what?   

You can't just tell us you have an industrial forge and not tell us EVERYTHING about it!   

Def

[Vidar]

Heat oven, not a forge. To put anything in or out you had to use that wheel to hoist and open the door which just went straight up and down vertically. Back in the middle ages it could possibly have been repurposed as a small castle drop door.

If it had only been propane driven... It was powered by 3-phase 400v AC which a heavy transformer and some electrics took all the way down to a few tens of DC voltage. That power was available as this was an old shipyard, but it took forever and a small fortune of money to heat it up. The thing was heavy, and covered up inside with layers of fire bricks. All had to be heated up all the way from room temperature. I imagine it would be something else if it was an ongoing production where it was always on and these rail carts were just circulating in and out.

It was too way too big for my use. It only got fired up once to see that it was working. Years later there was this fellow who dropped by to anneal his plane engine after he had repaired / mangled it himself with some first timer DIY stick welding. I refused. First off because I hadn't a clue about annealing a random plane engine block. He claimed he could do it by himself, but I certainly didn't want to have any responsibility or connection to a likely backyard non-certified future failing fix. That sounded like a recipe for disaster, court and worse.
 
Anyway, I had to move shop as the entire building was being repurposed, and the new site was far smaller. Thus some machines and equipment got sold off, given away or thrown away to a scrapdealer. That one was thrown away with a few exceptions. I kept some fire bricks for repairs to the smaller heat treating oven - which do fit on a desktop. And I kept the power transformer. Not because I needed it for anything, but because it was rather compact and contains roughly 300-400 kg of copper. Certainly well worth USD 20 all on its own.

 

[Farmer X]

But if we use different steels for stock removal and forging how can we tell whether any resulting differences are due to the steel or the process used? If we find a steel that is equally suitable for both then at least any differences are likely due to the process used.

1095 would be perfect, methinks.