Surefire Runtime Help

[BlindFarmer]

Hello everyone. I would like your help and advice please. I invested in myself and bought several new Surefire lights. I wanted quality, relieable tools, not a trending bleeding edge white good. I live in a rural area, there are no street lights. I went for an evening walk to try my new lights. I am glad I had three lights. I would have been in trouble. My brain knew I would be ok, the online material said the G2x will run on hi for 1.5 hours. I should be fine for a 30 minute walk, right? Oh no, it will not. 15 minutes is all it did, then it got slowly dimmer. I used my Stiletto to get back home, but left the G2x Maxvision running to see what it did. The G2x was as dim as the Stiletto on low. 15 minutes is not enough time, and a big difference from the claimed 1.5 hours. What can I do about it? I live on a small farm. The purpose of these lights is edc. Thank you for the help.

[powernoodle]

Hey.  I used to be into Surefire lights - maybe 30 years ago - when the 6P cranked 60 lumens, and the incan bulb last 10 hour or until you dropped it.  Whichever came first.  We were living large back then, because it was a big step up from giant Maglites.

Fast forward to today, when 1000 lumens out of the same sized light is common.  With an LED that lasts pretty much forever.

I'm not a fan of today's Surefires, because in my view the cost and performance fall well short of Olight, Nitecore, Fenix and Streamlight.  At least in Powernoodleworld.  But that's for another thread.

Its hard to say why your Surefire gave you 30% of the advertised runtime.  It could be that their runtime numbers are horse hockey, or that your battery/batteries are not giving you the juice you expect.  Those advertised runtimes are often best case measurements, and your actual mileage may vary.   I know that can be very frustrating with a spendy light that does not live up to your expectations.

You might try another battery.  Beyond that, I don't think there is much you can do except shop around.  Good luck!   

[IMR4198]

    I think I would return them.  I don't set foot outdoors at night anymore.  You can hear the coyote packs and lots of rustling through the leaves in the woods.  Plus a couple of rabies outbreaks. 
    If you have been listening to the EDC podcast that the MTO owner Def has been putting out you get another perspective on lights.  He is the owner who owns MTO which he owns because he owns it.  The guys on there buy cheap junk that they can throw away.  Obviously, they could buy anything they wanted, but they just buy semi-disposable cheapies.  I'm not saying that's the way to go, but that's how they do it.  They probably don't walk around at night much either.  Best wishes.  Gary

PS I do need a better flashlight.  My Coleman and Maglite both puked out, and I have been on the cheapie train for a while.  G
 

[nate j]

So, I think there are several parts to the answer…

Part 1
Based on some of your previous posts, I suspect you’re running (rechargeable) SFLFP123 batteries, which have a nominal capacity of 450 mAh.  Surefire runtime tests are conducted with (non-rechargeable) 123A batteries, which have a nominal capacity of 1550 mAh.  In plain English, as noted on Surefire’s website, “LFP rechargeable batteries have significantly less run time than their disposable counterparts.”

Part 2
Reputable flashlight manufacturers (including Surefire) test their lights and report the results per the ANSI FL1-2019 standard.  Per that standard, the runtime test is essentially the time it takes (starting with fresh batteries) for the output of the light to drop to 10% of its initial value.  But, that initial output value (30 seconds after the light is turned on) is what gets reported as the flashlight’s output.

Sorry to hear your new light isn’t meeting your expectations, but hopefully this is helpful in understanding what is going on.

[powernoodle]

This is mission creep, but when I go out at night with the dog, I carry at least 2 lights.  Something like a medium output like the $40 Streamlight Jr. (225 lumen, 6 - 10 hour runtime depending on which flavor of AA batteries you use), and a Streamlight ProTac HL 6 (5,300 lumen, 2 hour runtime) if I need to melt someone or something.

[BlindFarmer]

So, I think there are several parts to the answer…

Part 1
Based on some of your previous posts, I suspect you’re running (rechargeable) SFLFP123 batteries, which have a nominal capacity of 450 mAh.  Surefire runtime tests are conducted with (non-rechargeable) 123A batteries, which have a nominal capacity of 1550 mAh.  In plain English, as noted on Surefire’s website, “LFP rechargeable batteries have significantly less run time than their disposable counterparts.”

Part 2
Reputable flashlight manufacturers (including Surefire) test their lights and report the results per the ANSI FL1-2019 standard.  Per that standard, the runtime test is essentially the time it takes (starting with fresh batteries) for the output of the light to drop to 10% of its initial value.  But, that initial output value (30 seconds after the light is turned on) is what gets reported as the flashlight’s output.

Sorry to hear your new light isn’t meeting your expectations, but hopefully this is helpful in understanding what is going on.

Now that makes sense. What I am doing is running a Chevy V8 with foot to the floor on a small fuel tank. The light needs a 5000mah battery in it, more fuel. That does not exist in the recharegeable cr123 form factor. Thus, the G2x Maxvision is the wrong tool for that paticular job. Good light, but not for the task I was using it for.

[nate j]

Now that makes sense. What I am doing is running a Chevy V8 with foot to the floor on a small fuel tank.

That’s what I was calling Part 1.

Part 2 is understanding how runtime is reported to 10% of the initial output value, and how the output over time curves can look very different for different flashlights (even if they have the same reported output and runtime values).

[nate j]

Maglite and (a bit later) Surefire were once the gold standards by which all others were judged.  But they made the mistake of resting on their laurels, and they failed to innovate or adapt as the technology changed.  Today, they no longer provide the best value for the money for most users.

Some people swear by Streamlight, but I had a bad experience with them years ago and probably won’t trust them again.  Moreover, even on paper, I’m not terribly impressed with their offerings vs. competitors.

It seems like Olight has a devoted following, but I’ve largely steered clear of them due to proprietary charging cables.  (I’m trying to standardize on USB-C.)

Nitecore and Fenix are the two brands that I have long term carry experience with and have been pleased.

[BlindFarmer]

I figured out that Surefire lights will run just fine on the 16650 cell. I bough Obitron cells. Made in Japan, so basically a 3.7v eneloop. LOL 2500mah vs the 450mah from the oem rechargeables. Now I have the runtime that the light should have come with to begin with. Now I can use and enjoy the investment.

[nate j]

I figured out that Surefire lights will run just fine on the 16650 cell. I bough Obitron cells. Made in Japan, so basically a 3.7v eneloop. LOL 2500mah vs the 450mah from the oem rechargeables. Now I have the runtime that the light should have come with to begin with. Now I can use and enjoy the investment.

I’m not necessarily saying don’t do it, but be aware that:

- Running an Orbtronic 16650 may void your Surefire warranty.

- The nominal voltage of a 16650 is 3.7V, vs. 6V (3V per cell) for 2xCR123A in series.  This may or may not result in reduced output.

[nate j]

I’m curious how this ended up.  Are you running the 16650s?  If so, how are they performing?

[BlindFarmer]

I’m curious how this ended up.  Are you running the 16650s?  If so, how are they performing?

Yes, I am running the Orbtronic 16650 in the G2x Maxvision. At the time of this typing, I have gone for two 30 minute night walks. The light was run on high. I will do another 30 minute night walk and see how it holds up. I will have a spare battery in case the light dims.

[nate j]

Yes, I am running the Orbtronic 16650 in the G2x Maxvision. At the time of this typing, I have gone for two 30 minute night walks. The light was run on high. I will do another 30 minute night walk and see how it holds up. I will have a spare battery in case the light dims.

Nice!  Sounds like the light is not running any dimmer due to the lower nominal voltage of the 16650s?

[BlindFarmer]

Nice!  Sounds like the light is not running any dimmer due to the lower nominal voltage of the 16650s?

If it is dimmer, it is not noticeable. I went for walk three. 60 minutes is all it will do on high. The light did not step down. It just kept getting dimmer. Like an incandesent Maglite. At the 90 minute mark at the end of walk three, the light was still working, but it was quite dim. I kept using it to see what it would do. I had a Stiletto Pro as backup. Realistically an hour is what you get on hi.