Learning about knives/knives for a beginner

[lovenhim]

Hello everyone.  I have my first quality knife on the way to me thanks to GadgetGuy.  It is a Kershaw Skyline.  I am very grateful and thankful for this.  I want to learn about knives in general, so where and how do I start?  I realize that this is a loaded question and that there will be different opinions, but what are some starter knives for a newbie, or must have knives for use and collecting?  Thank you for the help.

[2xTap]

lovenhim,

Alot of it depends on what particular style of knives you are into. And for use, what uses do you have in mind (examples = general utility, game skinning, EDC, heavy use chopper, etc.)? And for collecting, do you want to collect for fun or profit?

As far as learning, some of the best places are right on forums like this. More dedicated knife forums can offer alot. Read the posts dealing with your interests, jump into the conversations, ask questions......build your knowledge base. Look at what's popular with collectors and users. Read the reviews. Look for books and or magazines on the subject. Like anything else there are many ways to get into and understand a hobby.

As for starter knives for a newb, as well as must haves for any collection.......it all depends on where your interests lay. There are a ton of quality knives out there from many manufacturers and custom builders, and in nearly every price range for just about every use.

The question is what are you interested in, what type of knives peek your interest?

2xTap

[lovenhim]

lovenhim,

Alot of it depends on what particular style of knives you are into. And for use, what uses do you have in mind (examples = general utility, game skinning, EDC, heavy use chopper, etc.)? And for collecting, do you want to collect for fun or profit?

As far as learning, some of the best places are right on forums like this. More dedicated knife forums can offer alot. Read the posts dealing with your interests, jump into the conversations, ask questions......build your knowledge base. Look at what's popular with collectors and users. Read the reviews. Look for books and or magazines on the subject. Like anything else there are many ways to get into and understand a hobby.

As for starter knives for a newb, as well as must haves for any collection.......it all depends on where your interests lay. There are a ton of quality knives out there from many manufacturers and custom builders, and in nearly every price range for just about every use.

The question is what are you interested in, what type of knives peek your interest?

2xTap

Thank you for this reply.  Well my goal is to gain a few knives for EDC use.  I guess what I mean by collecting is....just to have a few quality knives in rotation but I do not need a huge collection.  Also this would be for fun, not profit.  I have the most interest in using my knives, not to just look at them.  I like folders most of all.  I like the looks of the Buck Bones knives and the Bear Grylls Gerber folding knife.  I am not interested in spending tons of money but rather gaining a few knives for EDC use such as opening packages, cutting boxes, to have a knife on you for general EDC use, there when you need it.  Nothing hardcore in use.  The Buck 110 looks classic but it is not something that I think I would want to carry everyday for example.  My goal is to be able on my fixed income to gain a few knives a year to add to a rotation so you are not using the same knife everyday.  I own three multitools, and it is all that I need.  Thanks again for the help.

[2xTap]

lovenhim,

Ok, that helps narrow things down a bit. So you are wanting to get some folding knives for general use that are pocketable. It sounds as though you prefer locking knives as opposed to slipjoints or other folding types?

If the Buck 110's aren't one you'd like to carry every day, I assume due to it's rather large size.....about what size folders are you looking for? And what type of locking system do you prefer, and what price range?

2xTap

[lovenhim]

lovenhim,

Ok, that helps narrow things down a bit. So you are wanting to get some folding knives for general use that are pocketable. It sounds as though you prefer locking knives as opposed to slipjoints or other folding types?

If the Buck 110's aren't one you'd like to carry every day, I assume due to it's rather large size.....about what size folders are you looking for? And what type of locking system do you prefer, and what price range?

2xTap

I do not know what you mean by a slipjoint.  I would like to keep my knives certainly under $50 each but would even prefer $25-$30-ish per knife.  I only know about the linerlock and the frame lock.  I like the idea of what I think is called an axis lock as it keeps your fingers out of the way of the blade when closing.  I would say that 3 inches is as large as I want to go, so 2-3 inches in blade length.  I am not sure if I like a straight blade or a combo blade, I just am not sure as I have only used straight blades in a multitool.  I am not sure if I want my knife lock near the blade like a linerlock or on the top/back of the knife..
     Knives that I have looked at only via Amazon are:

Gerber Bear Grylls series
Buck Bones
Kershaw Skyline
SOG Flash 1and2
Leatherman C series

Now GadgetGuy is sending me the nice gift of a Kershaw Skyline knife, which I am very thankful for. Thanks for the help.

[2xTap]

lovenhim,

Slipjoints are the original pocketknife. They don't use a locking system, instead they use backsprings and under spring pressure keep the blade in either the open or closed position. We have a large thread here on the forum dedicated to nothing but slipjoints. Check it out: http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,6299.0.html

If you don't own any I highly recommend you get some to try out. Good quality American made slipjoint pocketknives can be had for very reasonable prices and make for the quintessential pocketknife.

Anyway, for the price range you are looking at when it comes to locking knives there are many to choose from. That being said, try not to limit yourself by sacrificing quality over cost. My personal opinion is to stay away from Gerber knives. Their multitools are fine, and what USA made knives they have are good. But most of their knives are imported and in my experience they are of low quality. You can't go wrong with Kershaw, regardless of where they are made they are good quality. They Kershaw Skyline you have coming is a well regarded folder, good quality for the money.

Another nice Kershaw to look at in your price and size range is the Kershaw Storm....



They are about the size of the Skyline but with steel frame using a frame lock design, a blade made from 13C26 Sandvik Stainless, can be had in the $30 range, and are USA made.

The SOG Flash series of knives are pretty good. And I would also suggest looking at the Spyderco Tenacious line as well as the Spyderco Byrd line.

If you like Buck knives, while I would not recommend a Buck Bones.....in your price range I would highly recommend looking at the Buck Vantage Series. I have a couple of these and they superperb locking folders.......



They make two different sizes in this line in a range of handle materials and blade steels. The larger version has a blade just over 3 inches while the smaller frame version has 2 5/8" blade. For USA made tacticals these are great buys. They are relatively lightweight, linerlock design and they lock up tight, very pocketable, they feel real good in the hand, and are of solid fit and finish.

And if you are liking the Buck 110 but want something like it but smaller and lighter look at the Buck 112 Series in Paperstone. Similar to a 110 but with a 3 inch blade, and the Paperstone versions are noticably lighter but built of the same quality. Check them out here: http://www.smkw.com/webapp/eCommerce/products/Buck+Knives%26reg%3B/Buck%C2%AE+Green+EcoLite%26%23153%3B+PaperStone%26%23153%3B+Model+112+Lockback/BU3291.html And these can be had in either Green or Maroon Paperstone, and for under $30.00!

Just some to take a look at.

2xTap

[lovenhim]

Very nice reply and info, thank you very much.  So a slipjoint knife is what is in a SAK then.  I am not sure that I trust a primary knife like that, but that could be just my lack of knowledge and skill with a knife.    I have another question, what is the difference between an EDC knife and a tactical knife?  What makes one EDC and another tactical?  By the way, I like the one hand opening feature of a folding knife and I have seen an assisted opening SOG that my cousin owns and that is neat.

[2xTap]

lovenhim,

Yup, most Swiss Army Knives are slipjoints. When a knife is used properly a blade lock is really not needed on a folder. But then alot of it has to do with what one is use to.

Anyway, as far as the terms "EDC" and "Tactical" go......EDC stands for "Every Day Carry" and is a general term used to describe that knife or knives one uses and carries on a daily basis. But the term is also used to describe other gear people carry on a daily basis.

The term "Tactical" has many meanings but when describing knives it's a carry over from the 1980's when modern folding knives took on a level and look that associated them with Military and Law Enforcement. Blacked out blades, unique blade locking mechanisms, heavy built frames and thick blade stock. The term has gone generic and is used loosely to describe modern folding knives with certain attributes or a certain look. Don't take the meaning too literally.

Any knife, be it a folder, a fixed blade, a neck knife, even a Machete can be a EDC. And any one can be used in a variety of ways which could classify it as a Tactical.

Any knife you carry on a daily basis is essentially a EDC. But as a descriptor, when speaking of "Tacticals", the term goes with most modern locking folders that lack a traditional look. As a example no one classifies the Buck 110 as a "Tactical" knife. But the Buck Bones you were looking at, or the Sog Flash does fall into the "Tactical" classification. The term used with knives is a bit of a misnomer, and it's a habit I need to break. So don't take the "Tactical" term when speaking of knives too literal.

2xTap

[lovenhim]

Alright thanks again for all the great info.    This looks like it will be a fun ride to look, learn, and enjoy.  Also, I realize this is open to opinions and such, but why for example would a Buck Bones or a Gerber that is in my price range be a poor choice?  Is is cheap blade steel, poor blade lock, lesser design?

[Swiss Man]

My advice is to start with the very basic knife anatomy.  http://store.tkcknives.com/anofcasknif.html

This shows you what is what on a slip joint. And I agree 2xTap when he wrote,
That being said, try not to limit yourself by sacrificing quality over cost.

There is an old saying (Mythbusters proved it) "you can polish a turd but you still have a turd."
Trust me I have a lot of turds in my collection, some were given to me, some I bought because I couldn't pass up the awesome deal some I bought knowing that they were just because I liked the look of them.

I understand that you are basically collecting so you can rotate your EDC, I think that is wise because I remember YEARS ago I told myself that as soon as I finished filling this display case then I am not buying anymore knives.

Then after I finished that I decided that after I got a Tom Mix pocket knife then I would stop. Guess what I have done both of those and I still buy and collect it is a sickness with no cure.

Just have fun with it and don't worry about calling them the wrong name and such and realize that sometimes things in the knife world and life just doesn't make sense.

[lovenhim]

  I love this forum.

[Cleanser]

Gerber is one brand that has suffered from moving production over seas. Not to mention most the bear grylls stuff is normal production items that have been re-branded..

Maybe a Ka Bar Dozier.. for 15 or so dollars I think its pretty good.

[2xTap]

Alright thanks again for all the great info.    This looks like it will be a fun ride to look, learn, and enjoy.  Also, I realize this is open to opinions and such, but why for example would a Buck Bones or a Gerber that is in my price range be a poor choice?  Is is cheap blade steel, poor blade lock, lesser design?

The Buck Bones is a cheap import designed to cater to a certain market. And while not all imported Buck knives are of cheap quality, these particular ones are. The over-exagerrated skeletonized frame is a example of this. Like the Gerber Paraframe, they might look cool but they are anything but. Practicality is lost on looks. For the price of them there are better made knives of better materials, and much better ergonomics to be had.

Like Swiss Man, I have plenty of turds in my collection as well. Some I bought, some were gifts, over the years I've learned better. Experience is the best teacher in some regards. But this is just my opinion.......and I am all for buying what you like. Never let anyone tell you different. Just passing on a little of what I know and have learned in the hope it helps you to make a better informed decision on certain things.

And like I mentioned of the Buck Bones, many of the Gerber knives tend to fall into this category as well. And of these I own a few newer ones. All from their imported lines and none were up to my standards. One is particularly low quality in every aspect....soft blade steel, thin and weak linerlock, uneven fit of handle material to liners, flimsy construction. For affordable decent quality imports I recommend staying away from Gerber as a whole.

2xTap

[dks]

Adding to the previous suggestions and sticking to low cost (not used) knives, I would also suggest:

For lower price slipjoints and traditional “look” locking knives:

Rough Rider, Colt, Steel Warrior, Boker Plus, Kissing Crane, Case sodbusters, Wenger - Victorinox and Buck 3** series.
Apart from Case and the Swiss Army knives they are all made in China, on order from non Chinese companies.

You should also be able to get, for $20 to $50, Case, Svord, Buck Creek, Boker, US made Shrade, and other non Chinese made brands.

For more modern “look” locking knives, at lower prices:

Rough Rider, SanRenMu, Bee, Enlan, Byrd, all Chinese made.

For slightly more you could try Opinel, EKA, Spyderco, US made Schrades, Cold Steel, Ontario, and so on.

These are just suggestions , that I can think of now and I am sure others will add, or subtract, from these.

I don’t own any Byrd or Ontario but they seem to be liked a lot by the people who have them.

[lovenhim]

This is fantastic advice.  Wow it sure seems like as I look online I keep making those newbie mistakes.    I am visually impaired so I can not "enjoy" the fine looks and detail of a nice looking knife....like some of the Case knives in slipjoint listed above.  I am more concerned with function over looks. 
     What are your thoughts on the Leatherman C series of knives?  They seem to be made in the USA and the knive is using 420HC steel.  They are not pretty but Leatherman sure makes a nice multitool.  I love my LM Wave.  Thank you all for putting up with all my questions, I am just trying to learn and if I get a knife....trying to get the most value for my limited money.  I am very excited to know that I have a Kershaw Skyline coming from GadgetGuy. 

[Zed]

All great advice    collecting knives is a really interesting hobby, i mainly collect slipjoints , old new chinese american sheffield what ever i find interesting and il like, ive been given a lot of help and advice since starting collecting and its been a huge help to me, i hope you enjopy collecting and if you like it buy it, here is a pic of mine so far, and look forward to seeing pics of yours soon 

paul

[dks]

  Zed, you don't have ONE bad looking knife!

[Zed]

Zed, you don't have ONE bad looking knife!

Thanks mate you too    i love colecting these old and new pocket knives, plus reading about some of the history is really interesting to me, and nice to alternate what i carry most days, 

[Cleanser]

Also, If you plan to carry knives for EDC I would also suggest you look at laws in your state.  Not all knives that are legal to buy are legal to carry and etc.

[lovenhim]

Thank you for the advice on carrying an EDC knife.  I just looked at state laws and there are limits on throwing knives, throwing stars, nunchucks, etc but I do not see restrictions on a folding knife nor to blade length.  I have been told from listening to people talk that we have a 3inch or 3.5 inch blade length, but I see no reference to this in the state laws listed online.

[Zed]

Thank you for the advice on carrying an EDC knife.  I just looked at state laws and there are limits on throwing knives, throwing stars, nunchucks, etc but I do not see restrictions on a folding knife nor to blade length.  I have been told from listening to people talk that we have a 3inch or 3.5 inch blade length, but I see no reference to this in the state laws listed online.

good laws  wonder if we can carry nunchukas in the uk   

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

I'm new to knives too, pretty much, and I recently got a Spyderco Tenacious.  It is absolutely one of the best knives I've ever owned.  Yes, I know, it's Chinese made and all that, but remember, I'm new too, and have never spent more money on a knife than an expensive SAK, $60 - $70 or so...

That said, I love the Tenacious I have, simply an awesome knife.  I am planning on getting the larger "Resilience" model as well as the smaller "Ambitious".

Again, while I'm not an expert on knives by any means, I can't think of a single bad thing to say about the Tenacious; probably one of the best values for your buck that you can get.

[jekostas]

I'm new to knives too, pretty much, and I recently got a Spyderco Tenacious.  It is absolutely one of the best knives I've ever owned.  Yes, I know, it's Chinese made and all that, but remember, I'm new too, and have never spent more money on a knife than an expensive SAK, $60 - $70 or so...

Place of origin really doesn't matter that much any more, unless you have a specific desire to support local industry (a perfectly reasonable desire, IMHO). 

At the end of the day, what matters is tight quality control and corporate policy.  Kershaw, Spyderco, Benchmade, Fenix, ITP, Multitasker, CRKT and others have all proven that with a strong corporate philosophy and tight quality control you can make some outstanding products using Chinese manufacturers.  Kershaw and CRKT still provide lifetime warranties on all of their Chinese tools (Spyderco does for some but not all).

On the other hand, there have been some American companies go to China and utterly fail.  Gerber's Chinese tools aren't very good.  Buck's Chinese lines, while of reasonable quality, just couldn't meet the standards of the American buying public and they ended up shifting nearly all of their production back Stateside.  Snap-On had some very publicly embarrassing episodes of poor quality control with their Chinese suppliers until they reigned in the production line.

[lovenhim]

Thank you for your thoughts on the Spyderco Tenacious.  I have been looking at that knife Online as well.  What are some thoughts on CRKT knives....the under $50 line?  Some of them look rather neat but again looks are not what matters at the end of the day.  I like the idea of the Leatherman E33L knife as I think it is USA made and for the $30 price it has 154CM steel, which from doing some looking is a nice knife steel for the money.  Thank you all for your patience with me, I am just trying to get the best bang for my limited money and want to buy right the first time rather than learn from trial and error. 

[Sparky415]

Thoughts on CRKT 

I have a CRKT Kiss, Its a great knife, well made and very clever
I would recommend it to anyone as a light user 

http://www.crkt.com/KISS

If price is a consideration take a look at SRM/SanRenMu  (as said above)
There's some here 
http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,26319.0.html

[dks]

I have a few CRKT, lower end models, which as far as I remeber are Chinese made.
I buy them because of their "different" opening mehcanisms. For me, CRKT is a maker of interesting knives.
I have not used them in any way that can be described as "hard" but they are all finished very well, work as advertised, and are good looking knives  .

Here is my latest one, my first assisted opener.

[Cleanser]

Thank you for your thoughts on the Spyderco Tenacious.  I have been looking at that knife Online as well.  What are some thoughts on CRKT knives....the under $50 line?  Some of them look rather neat but again looks are not what matters at the end of the day.  I like the idea of the Leatherman E33L knife as I think it is USA made and for the $30 price it has 154CM steel, which from doing some looking is a nice knife steel for the money.  Thank you all for your patience with me, I am just trying to get the best bang for my limited money and want to buy right the first time rather than learn from trial and error.

154 is a good steel, but a good steel does not necessarily mean a good blade.  What makes a blade is the heat treat.  For example, Gerber uses s30v steel in some of its knives which could be really good, but all reviews of the knives say theyre junk.  I don't know much about the leatherman knives so I can't say anything. Just wanted to point out that 154 is a good start but you can't go by steel alone, user reviews / a company's reputation for heat treatments is also important.

[lovenhim]

154 is a good steel, but a good steel does not necessarily mean a good blade.  What makes a blade is the heat treat.  For example, Gerber uses s30v steel in some of its knives which could be really good, but all reviews of the knives say theyre junk.  I don't know much about the leatherman knives so I can't say anything. Just wanted to point out that 154 is a good start but you can't go by steel alone, user reviews / a company's reputation for heat treatments is also important.

You bring up a good point and also another thought to think about.  This knife hunting stuff is getting fun.  LOL

[jekostas]

154 is a good steel, but a good steel does not necessarily mean a good blade.  What makes a blade is the heat treat.  For example, Gerber uses s30v steel in some of its knives which could be really good, but all reviews of the knives say theyre junk.  I don't know much about the leatherman knives so I can't say anything. Just wanted to point out that 154 is a good start but you can't go by steel alone, user reviews / a company's reputation for heat treatments is also important.

You bring up a good point and also another thought to think about.  This knife hunting stuff is getting fun.  LOL

Leatherman's heat treat on their 154CM is very good, and the Expanse series knives are well worth the money.  They do have a couple of minor fit and finish issues out of box (I did a review on an E33L on this forum, you can dig through the reviews section for it) but none of them are deal-breakers.

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

I've read that the 8cr13mov steel in the Tenacious is treated to be in the 57 range for hardness, and so far mine has certainly been tough as nails.  I haven't tried to cut anything really gnarly, like thick hemp rope or the like with it, but it's stood up quite well to oak branches, clamshell packaging, and so on.  I have a little pen sized diamond hone I keep in my bike bag and the blade touches up quite nicely when needed.  The quality control on the Tenacious is excellent; in fact, what I thought at first was a manufacturing flaw turns out to be an actual design feature of the knife.  On the edge of the blade where the liner lock rests when the blade is open, it is angled very slightly so the liner lock rests exactly on the center of the blade when it's open, rather than going all the way over to the other side of the liner scale and sitting there.  It seems like this makes the liner lock more effective.  I've noticed this same thing on all the video reviews I've watched on the Tenacious, Resilience, etc.  I'm looking forward to getting a Resilience, which will be a camping/utility knife, and an Ambitious, which will go into my bike bag for EDC.  I'll gift the Tenacious to my son when he earns his Tenderfoot rank in scouts in a couple of months.  :-)