The other side stampes are for the 84 mm the "voc1" and for the 91 mm the "vss5"
Here 2 more pictures.
Thank you very much, nice knives! 84mm has pre 1951 tools but already Phillips on the back and 91mm looks like post 1952 knife but with older scales. Both looks early 1950s for me.BTW did they used US PAT PEN stamp together +Pat since 1951?
Wow, great! Will this AS3 stamps have a hidden rivet version after 1957?
You mean the same time period? I think the US PAT PEND was only used a short time for the US market only. The + PAT was used for all other markets.
Yes I think so. I have (or have seen) later knives with that stamp. I m not absolutely sure, but I think I have seen that stamp also on other knives, 75 mm or slim 84 mm.
I find it hard to believe that they used +PAT at any time before the patent was actually granted (this was on February 28, 1953), because I think that this would have been illegal (pretty much anywhere). I attach the relevant patent document.
This is very interesting! As we usually knew before, the +PAT started in 1951，ten year patent period ending in 1971？
This is why it would be nice to change the chart. It is my belief that +PAT does not exist until 1953 for all markets. The 'progression' of machining of the tool and that of all the early, US.PAT.PEND through large +PAT seems pretty clear to me that the two did not overlap at all. We have covered both of these topics in the previous threads and I think in the vintage thread.
Us.pat.pen existed in 1951-1953，large + pat in 1953-1957, small + pat in 1957-1971，Is its approximate timeline understood in this way?
All I see and all I know, that argumentation - for me - makes no sense at all. On the site of the IGE you find it: "Eine Marke ist vom Anmeldedatum an für jeweils zehn Jahre geschützt. Der Schutz kann beliebig oft um weitere zehn Jahre verlängert werden." That means the patent is valid since the date of the submission. That makes sense. Because everybody can submit a patent. You don`t have to prove anything, and also the IGE does not prove if you are right (new design, new function,...). Thats up to you, up to the person or company, that makes the submit. If you as a private person or as a company think, that someone uses your own patent, that its up to you or them to make an accusation and you have to prove that you are right. So the patent startet in 1951, and victorinox extended it in 1961 for another 10 years. In 1971, the patent protection ended. Thats how it works in switzerland.Maybe in the US its different, also in other countries. I don`t know how it goes there, but it seems that as long as a patent is not official registered, you had to use that "pat. pend." stamp, and after the registration, they changed to the +pat. And all the evidence I see leads exactly to that direction: very few knives with the pat pend stamp, most (if not all) of them you find in the US and not in europe, and most of them with the philipps. In your argumentation, it should have startet in 1953 and ended in 1973, what is wrong, because there are no knives after 1971 with the +pat stamp.
I don't know what you mean by "official registered." There are two relevant points in time here. The time when the application was submitted (May 7, 1951) and the time when it was approved (namely, the patent was granted; this was on February 28, 1953).It's certainly true that, if a patent is granted, then the period of patent protection starts from the time when the application was submitted (so, this particular patent expired on May 6, 1971). However, when one applies for a patent, there is no guarantee that it will ever be granted. Hence, it is a lie to claim that something is protected by a patent at any time before the patent is actually granted. The thing that can be legitimately claimed after the submission of an application and before actual granting of a patent is the existence of a PENDING patent application. This is designated by markings such as "PAT. PEND."The IGE has a page on patent marking where this is explained. (The German language version is at https://www.ige.ch/de/etwas-schuetzen/patente/nach-der-erteilung/kennzeichnung.html )As far as I can tell from observations, everything here fits very nicely to the legal framework: They used the US PAT PEND stamp from the time when they started making these can openers (and submitted the patent application) in mid-1951 and then after the patent was granted in 1953 they changed the stamp to +PAT and used it until the patent expired in 1971.
One more point is that if the specific stamp were for the US market only, the typical mark would likely be just PAT.PEND. as there would be no need to specify US.
I just can`t really understand why victorinox should sell knives in switzerland or europe with a "us pat pend" stamp. They could have used just "pat pend".
So for an US patent, you have to make an extra patent submission in the US or not? That has nothing to do with this submission from the IGE, or am I wrong? Is there an US pat nr. for this patent available, or has someone found it?
Ok I can ckeck that when I`m at home. I`m not exactly sure what I should look after. What is the difference in the machining between the US PAT PEND and the common +PAT ? The tang or the polishing?
It’s the differences in machining the final shape before polishing. After the die cut shape stamp. I suggest sorting for what you know are the earlier main blade tang stamp combinations and go from there.
The “ESSR” stamp I put between 1973 and 1976. I have a dated 1976 knife with that stamp.