(Image removed from quote.)http://www.amazon.com/Morris-Costumes-741545002967-Finger-Extensions/dp/B0052U4XMO
You're using your pliers wrong. You'll get much better leverage and a more controllable grip if you slip your pinky off the handles entirely and use just your index, middle, and ring fingers, but as close to the ends of the handles as possible. Use the plier handles as a lever to gain maximum mechanical advantage and remember that a little extra lever length is much more useful than your pinky being in the most advantageous position.
We need a cobra pliers based multitool for small hand people. And I also look for a small knipex, but damn they are so expensive here... Another way is to have handle with a very small angle when pliers are closed, reducing the angle when they are at full opening.
and that's with size 9 hands. People with smaller hands would find them even worse.
Quote from: 50ft-trad on January 14, 2015, 11:14:18 AM and that's with size 9 hands. People with smaller hands would find them even worse.No, i don´t (size 8.5).But one reason might be that i see no need to grip such big stuff, for those kind of work tools are existing that suit better than any MT.
Have you considered something like a Schrade Vise-grip ?
Quote from: hellsing on January 14, 2015, 12:34:32 PMWe need a cobra pliers based multitool for small hand people. And I also look for a small knipex, but damn they are so expensive here... Another way is to have handle with a very small angle when pliers are closed, reducing the angle when they are at full opening.They're expensive here too ...One thing you have to be careful of when the pliers are closed is avoiding a pinch hazard like on the original Gerber multipliers. They hurt!!!
Al, what a great thread. This is a point I've made a couple of times over the years, but never so well explained and pictured. You mention the PST being less of a problem in this regard and I agree, I'd also like to add that the original Supertool and the Pulse I find to be better than that later models. IIRC the original Wave is also the same, but I don't have one to try out and be sure.
Quote from: 50ft-trad on January 14, 2015, 01:19:56 PMQuote from: hellsing on January 14, 2015, 12:34:32 PMWe need a cobra pliers based multitool for small hand people. And I also look for a small knipex, but damn they are so expensive here... Another way is to have handle with a very small angle when pliers are closed, reducing the angle when they are at full opening.They're expensive here too ...One thing you have to be careful of when the pliers are closed is avoiding a pinch hazard like on the original Gerber multipliers. They hurt!!!Have you checked out the Knipex Alligator Pliers? They might be a little cheaper than the Cobras.
Try like this. 3/4" (19mm) diameter-- your longer, stronger fingers will have more leverage and will be more comfortable than stretching your pinky all the way to the end-- stronger grip and more comfortable at once.
OPExcellent commentary, thanks for taking the time to post w/ picturesYou really pointed out a "pro" for the Gerber MP
Thanks for this thread Worryingly, I do find myself agreeing with almost everything you've said, I'm sure that's not supposed to happen
The problem with the sliding pliers is that you can't open them out inline for use as a screwdriver and as such need a huge amount of clearance round the screw head. I rarely use the screwdrivers with the handles folded up in the form you store the tool it, it's almost always with the scrwdriver out at the end of a handle, the plier head folded in to the other end handle and my hand gripping the handle with the pliers in.
I do wonder how hard it would b to modify a Leatherman (or anything else with butterfly pliers) to reduce the span needed. I think it would just be a simple case of filing down the plier back stop in the handles, though on a Wave/Charge that would weaken the area because there isn't much meat there as a result of the blade lock.Maybe I'll do that one evening once I've got my house back together and I'm not playing with something with wheels
Wonderful insights AL,Here are are my inputs:Nothing is perfect for every job, MT are designed to handle daily small tasks IMO. For bigger jobs, one should use dedicated tools if possible.The MT you mention they do fall short when they are used to bite on large objects, but I think they are fine for deal with smaller objects like small nuts, cutting small wires. I am not a plumber and the only time I had such trouble was when I change a shower head in my house, none of my MT has pliers that open wide enough to grip on the pipe except Surge, the like you said, its handles spread way too wide for me to use it one hand. It got the job done, but clearly shown Surge wasn't designed for such task.
Having just read this entire thread in one sitting, I must say you've really explained your arguments in a very logical way Al Having now seen your point of view it makes me wonder just what parameters leathermans designers opt for when designing new models. Because it certainly doesn't look like they're designed that well TBH. Here in the UK leathermans are ridiculously expensive considering that they are a compromise to "Real" tools.
Quote from: Marcellus on January 18, 2015, 09:07:40 PMOPExcellent commentary, thanks for taking the time to post w/ picturesYou really pointed out a "pro" for the Gerber MPThank you I appreciate the comment
Quote from: 50ft-trad on January 18, 2015, 11:31:53 PMQuote from: Marcellus on January 18, 2015, 09:07:40 PMOPExcellent commentary, thanks for taking the time to post w/ picturesYou really pointed out a "pro" for the Gerber MPThank you I appreciate the comment Well, let's put this way Your narrative made me appreciate my MP600 a lot more and realize the limitation of a some others I own
The fact is that many of their tools are unusable for some users. They need to recognise this if they are going to increase their market share. A Surge pliers can handle far less than a significantly cheaper Diesel can in my hands. Make that same tool more usable for more people, and you can win more orders. As it stands there is a large percentage of their tools that I (and other people) will instantly disregard and not consider buying due to these very basic issues.
Nothing is perfect for every job, MT are designed to handle daily small tasks IMO. For bigger jobs, one should use dedicated tools if possible.The MT you mention they do fall short when they are used to bite on large objects, but I think they are fine for deal with smaller objects like small nuts, cutting small wires.
Lots of people here talk about using their pliers on nuts. I wouldn't dream of doing this unless it was an emergency.
I done that with a MT when I put together a dinning table, just for fun, I had dedicated tools near by.
Quote from: 50ft-trad on January 20, 2015, 01:25:32 AMThe fact is that many of their tools are unusable for some users. They need to recognise this if they are going to increase their market share. A Surge pliers can handle far less than a significantly cheaper Diesel can in my hands. Make that same tool more usable for more people, and you can win more orders. As it stands there is a large percentage of their tools that I (and other people) will instantly disregard and not consider buying due to these very basic issues.Ahh but because tools like the Surge suit bigger hands then they are catering for a different share of the market. There is no 'one size fits all' IMO. I tend to steer away from the smaller ones.
Excellent series of posts, 50ft-trad. I concur with several points concerning the ease of using Gerber vs. non-Gerber pliers, but I think the majority of your analysis addresses gripping larger objects.
Quote from: parnass on January 12, 2015, 01:47:42 AMExcellent series of posts, 50ft-trad. I concur with several points concerning the ease of using Gerber vs. non-Gerber pliers, but I think the majority of your analysis addresses gripping larger objects.I've been thinking about this again recently, and wondering if I ought to take a series of wire cuting pics. This may be a task that people need to do more frequently, and might be a better comparison for people. It might also show slightly different results, based on the shapes of the various plier heads.Worth doing?