91mm Scissors - Help!

[AllDaySAK]

Hey all!  Long time lurker. Big SAK fan

I hope I posted in the right place. I'm new, so please excuse me if i didn't.

I was super excited to get my victorinox compact in the mail from amazon (FYI, they just hiked the prices from 39.99 to 53.00, now down to 44). This is my first SAK 91mm with scissors, and I kinda looking forward to it. Unfortunately, the box came dented from lack of air packaging. The scissors are big (much more than im used to, i usually use my manager/swisscard scissors). When i use the scissors, they only retract to half open. Its a new knife, so it's clean. I even put new Victorinox oil (even though it was slathered with it as a new knife). There's also some considerable scissor wobble-play when the scissors are open, which is disappointing. Is this normal for a 91mm pair of scissors?? Or do you think shipping/handling might have cause some scissor-wobble? If this is the case, i might as well stick with my swisscard and an 84mm SAK  and return my compact to amazon. Any thoughts?

Thanks for reading.

[smiller43147]

Not sure what you mean by "they only retract to half open." Wobble is normal when the scissors are opened more than the spring opens them.  This doesn't impair their normal function.  A picture of the half open might help to answer your question.

[Sawl Goodman]

Some of my Vic scissors only open halfway too. Very annoying. They're riveted too tightly and I've yet to find a way to loosen them. In olden times when they used a screw you could loosen or tighten a little as you pleased.

[AllDaySAK]

Thanks you all for your reply!

Here is a photo of my 91mm scissors after using it a couple times (1 or two quick snips) against my smaller scissors found on my manager. It tends to "stick" to that position and i have to kinda manually separate the scissors if i want a bigger gap.

I know it sounds very very trivial, but it hardly seems any better than the smaller scissors found on the SD classics. Whats the point in carrying around a larger pair of scissors if they're just as effective as the small scissors? Hopefully, I'm probably just over-reacting and hopefully loosen over time. Thanks for letting me know about the scissor wobble.

[kamakiri]

Unfortunately, I think your observations are correct and normal. I too wish they opened a bit more as-is from m the factory.

My favorite 91mm scissors are from the late '40s. Strong and single leaf.

My original knife is from '84 and I do like the versions that you could adjust the screw to your liking.

[zrxoa1]

Mine in Explorer are the same. This is as far as they open on their own...



But if I “force” them open...



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SirVicaLot]

  I don‘t think they can open further because of the spring. But why would you want them to open all the way? That would make them very awkward to use.

[kamakiri]

Maybe a pic helps.

c. ‘93 opens ~1.0 cm at the tips
‘84 opens ~1.3 cm
Mid ‘50s ~1.5 cm
c. ‘47 ~1.5 cm

(Reverse from the picture list is from bottom to top)

.

[SirVicaLot]

Ah, I see. The new ones seem to be sturdier though, can you confirm that?

[kamakiri]

Some of my Vic scissors only open halfway too. Very annoying. They're riveted too tightly and I've yet to find a way to loosen them. In olden times when they used a screw you could loosen or tighten a little as you pleased.

Agreed about the tight riveting. They do loosen a bit over time. But if you do want to make it a bit looser, you could try removing a very small amount of material where the two parts ‘rub’ and are only visible when the scissors are open ~90°.  If the area has roughness, then polishing it all smooth could do the trick. I do have some well used riveted ones that open to more like 1.2 or 1.3 cm on their own.

....

But FWIW, the reason I think they riveted the scissors is to prevent breakage and wear from user errors like over tightening...and also mishaps that occur when closing the tool when it’s too loose. When the open tip-to-tip distance is about 1.8 cm to 2.0 mm the back end of lever will jam when you close (put away) the tool. Past about 2.0 cm and closing will push the lever to open the scissor and jam the scissor spring into the back spring or potentially hook the adjacent liners. I suspect this is how many double leaf springs were broken as well as from any mis-alignment of the double leaf spring itself.

So I think Victorinox reduced how much the scissors open on their own for specific purpose...to reduce spring breakage and related warrantee repairs.

Ah, I see. The new ones seem to be sturdier though, can you confirm that?

I wouldn’t say that. The scissors I’ve seen broken have all been due to some form of visible abuse. Not including the springs which seem to have many failure modes...fatigue, corrosion, bending, etc.

IMO - The only ‘upgrade’ in strength came in c. ‘77 when the screw diameter was increased.

Older, pre-‘70 types (except misc. Elinox) were just ridiculously labor intensive to produce. Eased edges, decorative grooving, hand polishing...

[nate j]

Thanks you all for your reply!

Here is a photo of my 91mm scissors after using it a couple times (1 or two quick snips) against my smaller scissors found on my manager. It tends to "stick" to that position and i have to kinda manually separate the scissors if i want a bigger gap.

I know it sounds very very trivial, but it hardly seems any better than the smaller scissors found on the SD classics. Whats the point in carrying around a larger pair of scissors if they're just as effective as the small scissors? Hopefully, I'm probably just over-reacting and hopefully loosen over time. Thanks for letting me know about the scissor wobble.

I find the larger scissors a bit sturdier for cutting tough materials (like my fingernails ) than the smaller scissors, and of course they can make the same linear cut length with fewer cycles.  I use my thumb to push up on the bottom of the back of the moving arm of the scissors if I want to take a bigger "bite" at something; after carrying 91mm SAKs with scissors for years, this has become second-nature.  It would be nice if the spring opened the scissors just a bit wider, though.

[gingerman]

I wish they put the Wenger scissors in all the knives.

[kamakiri]

I find the larger scissors a bit sturdier for cutting tough materials (like my fingernails ) than the smaller scissors, and of course they can make the same linear cut length with fewer cycles.  I use my thumb to push up on the bottom of the back of the moving arm of the scissors if I want to take a bigger "bite" at something; after carrying 91mm SAKs with scissors for years, this has become second-nature.  It would be nice if the spring opened the scissors just a bit wider, though.

  

I do the exact same thing, but my last post was getting to long.

And agree about the slightly wider opening.

I wish they put the Wenger scissors in all the knives.

I only have a few Wengers, but I can't say I prefer the action on those. I really don't like how they 'move' under use. Micro serrations can come in handy on versions that have them. But I prefer smoother action of the Vic versions.

[nate j]

I wish they put the Wenger scissors in all the knives.

I dunno..

Vic scissors do have some advantages:

• Straight-edged blades make cleaner cuts than the serrated Wenger scissors
• "Stationary" arm does not move while using the scissors
• Spring is easily replaceable by the user
• No pre-set limit on how far they can be opened
• Vic scissors are actually more comfortable to use, because they are thicker

Ultimately, I think it is best to have options.   

[kamakiri]

^ Much better explanation!

[Sawl Goodman]

Agreed about the tight riveting. They do loosen a bit over time. But if you do want to make it a bit looser, you could try removing a very small amount of material where the two parts ‘rub’ and are only visible when the scissors are open ~90°.  If the area has roughness, then polishing it all smooth could do the trick. I do have some well used riveted ones that open to more like 1.2 or 1.3 cm on their own.

....

But FWIW, the reason I think they riveted the scissors is to prevent breakage and wear from user errors like over tightening...and also mishaps that occur when closing the tool when it’s too loose. When the open tip-to-tip distance is about 1.8 cm to 2.0 mm the back end of lever will jam when you close (put away) the tool. Past about 2.0 cm and closing will push the lever to open the scissor and jam the scissor spring into the back spring or potentially hook the adjacent liners. I suspect this is how many double leaf springs were broken as well as from any mis-alignment of the double leaf spring itself.

So I think Victorinox reduced how much the scissors open on their own for specific purpose...to reduce spring breakage and related warrantee repairs.

The pliers can be as bad, from the mid-late 00s especially. My opinion is that Victorinox changed to riveted scissors to cut costs. The riveted 58mm scissors can be variable. I have some that open wider and have a generally better action than others. I love my Rambler for its ergonomics and toolset, but the overpeened scissor pivot drives me nuts.

[VICMAN]

Hey all!  Long time lurker. Big SAK fan

Welcome to the forum AllDaySAK!

[Sawl Goodman]

Wenger scissors used to have a screwed pivot. I have a well used Traveller whose pivot tightness has remained just right. On the other hand I have a Classic S52 that arrived with the loosest scissors I ever seen, actually useless. How they got like that mystifies me as the screw was an absolute devil to turn!

Modern Delemont scissors have riveted pivots. My Evowood's scissors are smoother and open wider than many modern Vic ones. They have a slot with an end stop to prevent the blades opening right up.

Wenger/Delemont scissors are an ingenious design. I like them except for the comfort thing mentioned above, and the rough edges they leave on fingernails.

[JK]

You don't want them to open too much either. Without finger grooves it would be a pain to keep them under control.

[chacap]

The scissors on the 91 mm are perfect , extremely efficient, you should not touch the rivet , on the other hand you can adjust the spring.