Super Steels ?

Sean · **on:** March 07, 2009, 04:43:51 PM

In the market for a folder. Something that will last a lifetime of everyday carry. I've decided to spend a little on it to get a fairly good steel that will hold an edge. Any idea's on steels that I should be looking at? All i'm going on is the price of the knives assuming expensive means a better quality steel?
Emerson, Kershaw are two companies that come to mind off the hop.

thanks,
Sean

WhichDawg · **Reply #1 on:** March 07, 2009, 05:34:05 PM

boss Benner has a really good thread in this section "Show us your folders"
(if you haven't seen it) and you'll find and see many good idea's! check it out

what will you be using it for mainly (everyday carry, camping/survival, environment, dedicated, size etc)
and if you see something you like, ask us here or there and we'll help you out.

Sean · **Reply #2 on:** March 07, 2009, 05:48:24 PM

hey thanks will have a look at that thread. Have seen it before but never really delved into it. Was looking for something as an everyday carry. Been looking at the Emerson A-100. Kershaw has the avalanche and both those appeal to me with the limited knowledge that I have with blades. Need something that has a pant clip because thats where it will be carried and preferably a liner lock for ease of closing.
We have a pretty good knife shop up here and I think the fella is pretty on the ball with the stuff he carries.

http://www.warriorsandwonders.com/

WhichDawg · **Reply #3 on:** March 07, 2009, 06:10:45 PM

I've heard of those blades but don't know much about them.
Super Steel are those that claim to be able to do anything, super tough,
never corrode, keep an edge very long, like INFI, D2, H1 etc but they cost.

I'm a big fan of Benchmade and Spyderco (nice clips) and of course you can always
get a Sebenza (3-4 hundred bucks!) I would say if you want something
good (and more) the 75-120 range is to be expected.

I like Benchmade because they are made well and I luv the Axis lock,
which is a fast/easy open-close lock system that is fun!

If you can get your hands on a folder you like the looks of before purchasing, that would
be great! then you'll know the feel of it for your needs. Good Luck

Mike · **Reply #4 on:** March 07, 2009, 07:00:23 PM

Let me just state for the record that I believe "super steels" are somewhat over rated. Consider the following, many of our grandfathers and fathers used knives that had simple 1095 carbon steel blades which served them well for their life times, and were even handed down and still got used. Here on Multitool.org we extol the virtues of Wenger and Victorinox knives simply referred to as SAK's. SAK's do not have the latest greatest "super steel", but they do what we need for 99% of our cutting needs. They too will serve well over the course of one's life time if properly cared for and properly used. If you're looking for a simple, but good three blade stockman go get a Buck 301 or 303, they use simple 420HC steel. Nothing fancy, but Buck knows how to do a heat treatment well. A Benchmade Mini-Grip of full size Griptillian in 440C is also a good choice.

Also, if you are not very good at sharpening knives, then the "super steels" will prove to be an even bigger challenge. They will also require an investment in more expensive sharpening equipment. 1095 carbon steel, SAK steel and 420HC are relatively easy to bring back to a working edge with pretty inexpensive sharpening equipment. True, they don't necessarily hold their edge as long, but they are easier to bring back ...... that's the trade off.

I encourage you to seriously consider what it is you use a knife for and don't be lured by the mystique of the "super steels".

Mike

Benner · **Reply #5 on:** March 07, 2009, 07:14:20 PM

I personally like the S30V of my Sebbie and the VG-10 of my Spyderco Police. Both offer superb edge retention and sharpen up nicely as well.

Nikos · **Reply #6 on:** March 07, 2009, 07:14:58 PM

I second that: overrated and usually overpriced. Although having a super-steel blade may give you a fuzzy feeling of security and reassurance that "that's a super-steel", in the end of the day it's one of those matters of heat treatment and personal taste. I know many people who swear by their 'no-name' carbon or 1095 blades, while others will go no lower than a D2 or A2. Similarly, I've handled 420j2, 420hc, vic 'inox', 440a, 440c, 154cm, s30v and a couple of carbon steel variations; I keep reaching for my 420hc Buck, 440c Spyderco and Vic 'inox' blades. They can get shaving sharp in no time, will hold an edge for long enough for me to get the job done till the next retouching, and didn't cost me a fortune to acquire in the first place. Here is a nice doc on the various steels and how they compare to each other.

Mike, Lord of the Spammers! · **Reply #7 on:** March 07, 2009, 07:16:17 PM

+1 on the VG10

Superb real world steel

hawkchucker · **Reply #8 on:** March 07, 2009, 07:17:01 PM

Ben will be getting another s30 v very shortly.

Benner · **Reply #9 on:** March 07, 2009, 07:21:15 PM

Quote from: hawkchucker on March 07, 2009, 07:17:01 PM

Ben will be getting another s30 v very shortly.

Nikos · **Reply #10 on:** March 07, 2009, 07:23:34 PM

Moreover afaicr there used to be some issues with heat treatment in the early 154cm and s30v implementations. Anyway, I just can't understand those who go out and spend $300-$1000 for a darn folder, which is supposedly die-hard and destined to be a user. I surely like the looks of a Strider or a Sebbie and I'm 100% sure they are great knives, but at their price tag I'll equally surely pass...

Ok, rant off...

hawkchucker · **Reply #11 on:** March 07, 2009, 07:29:50 PM

I hate to sound like a cliche but If I had to explaine it you would not understand it.

But I will give it a try. I became interested in super steels because of the longjevity of how the steel stays sharper and stays sharper longer. Does it make a big diff. No but yes. I love the idea of owning a Lotus but I know I cannot own one. But I can own a Sebbie. or a griptillian in d2, but super steels come in all price ranges. you can still buy spidies in s30v cheap, and several d2 benchmades also. so I guess you really dont need the sebbie, but it really is a cool ride.

Mike · **Reply #12 on:** March 07, 2009, 07:49:41 PM

What I'm trying to say, and not doing a very good job at is simple. If you want something in a "super steel", that's great, go ahead and get it. I'm not going to try and tell anyone what they "need" or what they should "want". Just trying to educate them on the realities. I mean, I can go out and buy the best, newest and most expensive golf clubs on the planet, but I'm still not going to be Tiger Woods.

You can go out and buy a knife with the latest and greatest "super steel" out there, but you still aren't going to cut that cardboard, apple, rope, or skin a deer a whole lot better than I can with my SAK or Buck or 1095 carbon steel blade knife.

And respectfully to hawchucker,. Trust me, there is very little I don't understand.

Mike

hawkchucker · **Reply #13 on:** March 07, 2009, 07:58:21 PM

Mike sorry if you took offence to my post, but it was not ment to insinuate anything. Just my reason for why I like the Sebbie and the higher end steels. It is just something I like. Nothing more or less. If you dont, more power to you.

Mike · **Reply #14 on:** March 07, 2009, 08:04:41 PM

Quote from: hawkchucker on March 07, 2009, 07:58:21 PM

Mike sorry if you took offence to my post, but it was not ment to insinuate anything. Just my reason for why I like the Sebbie and the higher end steels. It is just something I like. Nothing more or less. If you dont, more power to you.

No offense taken, no worries.

Mike

DaveK · **Reply #15 on:** March 07, 2009, 08:36:02 PM

Quote from: mike on March 07, 2009, 07:49:41 PM

Trust me, there is very little I don't understand.

That's a bold statement. What about quantum mechanics?

jzmtl · **Reply #16 on:** March 07, 2009, 09:04:43 PM

You gotta try ZDP189, but you NEED to reprofile it down to very acute angle, something at most 30° (people do 12° edge on it), it will actually hold that edge for reasonable amount of time.

But to be honest most of us don't need super steels, we just get them for the sake of it.

Oh if you haven't seen this before, it goes over most of the steel on market today briefly.

Mike · **Reply #17 on:** March 07, 2009, 09:06:39 PM

Quote from: DaveK on March 07, 2009, 08:36:02 PM

Quote from: mike on March 07, 2009, 07:49:41 PM
Trust me, there is very little I don't understand.

That's a bold statement. What about quantum mechanics?

What I understand about quantum mechanics, is that I don't understand quantum mechanics.

Mike

DaveK · **Reply #18 on:** March 07, 2009, 09:09:48 PM

Leatherman123 · **Reply #19 on:** March 08, 2009, 01:35:21 AM

I have been questioning super steels a lot lately.. I really like super steels, but they are a PITA to sharpen. Not only that, but the harder steels have a tendency to "chip". (especially S30V) It's very much like the Gerber's tungsten carbide wire cutters; they're so hard- they chip.. Out of all the super steels, I like 154CM the best..

WhichDawg · **Reply #20 on:** March 08, 2009, 02:01:52 AM

if their chipping they are not heat treated right, a major element in good steel
and if they don't have a lifetime warranty to cover that, I'd question that maker.
super steels don't chip! that's one of the reasons we call them that! they have a
bend of properties (a result of heat treating) that makes them tough as nails
yet soft enough to not break or chip.

Leatherman123 · **Reply #21 on:** March 08, 2009, 02:03:10 AM

You think so? I have had some very expensive S30V blades chip.

WhichDawg · **Reply #22 on:** March 08, 2009, 02:03:49 AM

again that is poor heat treating, not the steel

Mike · **Reply #23 on:** March 08, 2009, 02:11:06 AM

It seems to me I read somewhere that on some knives, the heat treat was an issue on the edges. But if you took them down just ever so slightly (via normal sharpening), you got into the properly heat treated steel and would no longer have the chipping issues. I can't remember where I read this or if it was ever reliably proven to be true. Just something in my memory bank somewhere.

Anyhow, people should get what they want, or like, and of course need. But do the research so you know what you're getting into. Guess that could be said for everything though.

Mike

Sean · **Reply #24 on:** March 08, 2009, 03:07:01 AM

Well thanks for the varied opinions and the extra links into the properties of steel. I will review them. You know I probably don't need a super steel but my folders are all old style knives with old style steels and they have served me well. But I would like to try something different, something with a modern look and with g-10 scales. I love the look of the Emerson line and they are really not all that badly priced I don't think.

sean

DaveK · **Reply #25 on:** March 08, 2009, 03:22:56 AM

Hey Sean - I am a self confessed knife newb and was looking recently at how much difference these fancy steels actually make, and read a load of opinions just like the ones on this thread! I've figured out that the S30V blade on my Charge TTi seems to stay sharper longer than the 440 blade on my Core, but it'll be a while yet before I can definitively say that S30V is worth the extra bucks!

I reckon the way to go is to pick the knife you like the look of (i.e. the Emerson) and get it. Noone has slated them, so it looks as though it'll do the job, then in time you'll decide whether you need anything better, based on your own experiences

I only have a very few knives, and the ones I like and use most have nothing to do with the steel, it's all about how comfortable they feel in my hand.

Like I say, I'm a million miles from being an expert on knives and steels, but I say "If it feels good - do it"!

Mike · **Reply #26 on:** March 08, 2009, 03:23:38 AM

Quote from: Sean on March 08, 2009, 03:07:01 AM

Well thanks for the varied opinions and the extra links into the properties of steel. I will review them. You know I probably don't need a super steel but my folders are all old style knives with old style steels and they have served me well. But I would like to try something different, something with a modern look and with g-10 scales. I love the look of the Emerson line and they are really not all that badly priced I don't think.

sean

Sean,

Those are great reasons!

Mike