Swiss ban minarets

[Woz]

Today Swiss people were asked to vote if they want to ban any more Minarets to be build by law. About 60% votet "No" to minarets, now Switzerland is the first western European country to ban minarets. They argue that Islam is not a tradtional Swiss religion, and that they want to stop it from spreading over Switzerland. Other European politicians now want referendums in their countries...
Now Swiss politicians fear muslim terrorist attacks or economic problems for Swiss companies exporting to the middle east.

Interesting, for Switzerland has been very liberal in the past. This might affect Victorinox and Wenger to, for they sell to armies and authorities around the world. I hope they do not loose too much sales, can you imagine NOT buying Swiss products for that reason?

Links:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20091129/ts_afp/switzerlandreferendumreligionislamresult
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/switzerland/6683249/Switzerland-appears-to-have-backed-minaret-ban.html

[Anthony]

There might be a "backlash", but what is the alternative?

Good for the Swiss I say

[american lockpicker]

No offense to Muslims but this makes me want to buy Swiss more often.

[Freudian Frog]

Don't hate Muslims or the Swiss, but I do hate those minarets.

[Nikos]

There are many things that are not traditional Swiss (such as TV shows, smoke, gas, cars, foods, etc.) and yet they're allowed to freely spread across Switzerland.

[Paul]

WTF is a minaret? 

[Paul]

Just looked on Wiki - Yeah ban em'!! Good on the Swiss     

[John]

WTF is a minaret? 

The towers adjacent to mosques  

[ringzero]

Don't hate Muslims or the Swiss, but I do hate those minarets.

So do a majority of the Swiss, apparently.

This part of the article sums it up rather well:

Eveline Widmer-Schlumpf, the Swiss justice minister, has suggested that a vote for a ban could fuel Islamist radicalism and violent protests, such as those that greeted Danish cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed in 2006.

"This is not an appropriate instrument for combating religious extremism. It risks the opposite, of serving the cause of fanatics," she said.

But Oskar Freysinger, an SVP MP, compares warnings of anger in the Muslim world to the arguments used by "appeasers" of Adolf Hitler and the Nazis.

"It is what Chamberlain thought in Munich in 1938. If these are the consequences, it is the proof that what we are doing to defend ourselves is legitimate," he said.

Appeasement, whether of Nazis, Communists, or Islamists is never the right choice.

The Swiss people seem to understand this basic principle, although apparently the Swiss political elite does not understand.

.

[yud]

good for them, they made a stand

[american lockpicker]

Appeasement, whether of... Communists... is never the right choice.

Whats wrong with that?

[DaveK]

Some of the replies on this thread surprise me. The comments from some were sadly predictable.

Do you think they'll ban the ringing of church bells next?

I find the comparison between people who opposed the ban and the Nazis incredible. The banning of any aspect of a religion that you don't happen to be a part of is a far more in keeping with National SoSmurfpillsm than simply fearing any (unlikely) retribution. Whilst I agree that any nation should not make it's policies based on the threat of terrorist retaliation, the basic premise here is discriminatory, prejudiced and sadly not unlike the Swiss. In defence of the Swiss government, the Yahoo report does state that they were against this referendum as they aware what this will do to Switzerland's international image, and it has come about via a legal loophole.

I am proud to say that I believe that any attempt to bring a ban like that to Britain would be treated with the contempt it deserves. I am convinced that this will be the case in the majority of civilised EU countries too. There will likely be some sadly predictable exceptions.

No offense to Muslims but this makes me want to buy Swiss more often.

How could a statement like that possibly be not offensive to Muslims, or any decent human being for that matter?

I'm genuinely disgusted by some of the posts here.

[american lockpicker]

Dave you do realise that if Islam spreads anymore equality(for gays(I'm not exactly pro homosexuality but who am I to judge what 2 people do in the privacy of their home), women(they will be treated less than dogs and be forced to wear burkahs and cover there faces), and people of other faiths(Christains, Jews, Hindus, etc.))will be out the window and the world will be as backward as most of the middle east. I'm not saying people can't be Muslim but Islam must be kept in check.

[Zack]

I personally could care less if they ban them or not, its not for me to decide.  Muslims deserve the right to worship as they please, just like I have the right.  Do I agree with all aspects of Islam, no; but then again I don't agree with all aspects of Christianity.  People don't think of Islam as a religion, but more of an epidemic.  "Don't let that nice Muslim man touch you...I hear it's catching"  Islam is thousands of years old, and its still behind Christianity and Judaism.  So, the argument of it spreading across the world seems asinine to me.  I am willing to bet more people come to Christ every day, than converting to Islam, yet they don't ask us to tear down our steeples (please don't say the act of a few extremists crashing a plane into the WTC is the same thing).  I personally have more important things to worry about.

[Zack]

Dave you do realise that if Islam spreads anymore equality(for gays(I'm not exactly pro homosexuality but who am I to judge what 2 people do in the privacy of their home), women(they will be treated less than dogs and be forced to wear burkahs and cover there faces), and people of other faiths(Christains, Jews, Hindus, etc.))will be out the window and the world will be as backward as most of the middle east. I'm not saying people can't be Muslim but Islam must be kept in check.

Please say you are kidding, that is quite possibly the worst thing I have ever seen typed on this forum.

[american lockpicker]

Dave you do realise that if Islam spreads anymore equality(for gays(I'm not exactly pro homosexuality but who am I to judge what 2 people do in the privacy of their home), women(they will be treated less than dogs and be forced to wear burkahs and cover there faces), and people of other faiths(Christains, Jews, Hindus, etc.))will be out the window and the world will be as backward as most of the middle east. I'm not saying people can't be Muslim but Islam must be kept in check.

Please say you are kidding, that is quite possibly the worst thing I have ever seen typed on this forum.

I stand behind what I said 100%. Also if any other religion(including Christainity) was like that I would have a problem with it. Also I'm not saying all Muslims are bad but a lot do terrible things in the name of that religion.

[Zack]

Dave you do realise that if Islam spreads anymore equality(for gays(I'm not exactly pro homosexuality but who am I to judge what 2 people do in the privacy of their home), women(they will be treated less than dogs and be forced to wear burkahs and cover there faces), and people of other faiths(Christains, Jews, Hindus, etc.))will be out the window and the world will be as backward as most of the middle east. I'm not saying people can't be Muslim but Islam must be kept in check.

Please say you are kidding, that is quite possibly the worst thing I have ever seen typed on this forum.

I stand behind what I said 100%. Also if any other religion(including Christainity) was like that I would have a problem with it. Also I'm not saying all Muslims are bad but a lot do terrible things in the name of that religion.

So did Christians during the Crusades.

[Gadget Guy]

Guys, you know where this is heading.   

[american lockpicker]

Dave you do realise that if Islam spreads anymore equality(for gays(I'm not exactly pro homosexuality but who am I to judge what 2 people do in the privacy of their home), women(they will be treated less than dogs and be forced to wear burkahs and cover there faces), and people of other faiths(Christains, Jews, Hindus, etc.))will be out the window and the world will be as backward as most of the middle east. I'm not saying people can't be Muslim but Islam must be kept in check.

Please say you are kidding, that is quite possibly the worst thing I have ever seen typed on this forum.

I stand behind what I said 100%. Also if any other religion(including Christainity) was like that I would have a problem with it. Also I'm not saying all Muslims are bad but a lot do terrible things in the name of that religion.

So did Christians during the Crusades.

Very true and during the inqusition, and other times. But when I go to church it isn't lets strap a bomb to our chest and get 72 virgins it how can we help our community through foodbanks and volunteer work. May be if Islam can turn from its evil ways then I will show it more tolerence but right now the are pretty much as bad as the Nazis.

[american lockpicker]

Guys, you know where this is heading.   

My views won't change and I don't expect anyone elses so if a mod could lock this topic that would be nice.

[ari6126]

Guys, you know where this is heading.   

My views won't change and I don't expect anyone elses so if a mod could lock this topic that would be nice.

Yes please.

[Zack]

Dave you do realise that if Islam spreads anymore equality(for gays(I'm not exactly pro homosexuality but who am I to judge what 2 people do in the privacy of their home), women(they will be treated less than dogs and be forced to wear burkahs and cover there faces), and people of other faiths(Christains, Jews, Hindus, etc.))will be out the window and the world will be as backward as most of the middle east. I'm not saying people can't be Muslim but Islam must be kept in check.

Please say you are kidding, that is quite possibly the worst thing I have ever seen typed on this forum.

I stand behind what I said 100%. Also if any other religion(including Christainity) was like that I would have a problem with it. Also I'm not saying all Muslims are bad but a lot do terrible things in the name of that religion.

So did Christians during the Crusades.

Very true and during the inqusition, and other times. But when I go to church it isn't lets strap a bomb to our chest and get 72 virgins it how can we help our community through foodbanks and volunteer work. May be if Islam can turn from its evil ways then I will show it more tolerence but right now the are pretty much as bad as the Nazis.

You are entitled to your opinion as I am mine, but your sweeping generalizations can be tiresome.  As a Christian I have been taught to have love for all people, regardless of their religion.  People tend to think of Islam as this "crazy" religion, but it has more in common with Christianity/Judaism then most realize.  Islam came from a son of Abraham, just like Judaism came from another son.  All three of the these religions recognize the same God, just use different language to accomplish the task.  Are there zealots, yes; but the same can be said for every religion.  That is all I have to say as I can see where this conversation is headed, and I don't like it.  If anyone else wants to rationally debate this then my PM box is open.

[ringzero]

Appeasement, whether of... Communists... is never the right choice.

Whats wrong with that?

I hope you're joking.

If you're not joking and really don't know what's wrong with appeasement, then you need to read up on the history of the 20th Century.

.

[american lockpicker]

Appeasement, whether of... Communists... is never the right choice.

Whats wrong with that?

I hope you're joking.

If you're not joking and really don't know what's wrong with appeasement, then you need to read up on the history of the 20th Century.

.

Well heres what they want in America. Also the its debatable if the so called communist countries(like China) were/are communist.

Meet the Needs of Working, Unemployed and Farm Families
- Raise the minimum wage to $12 an hour.
-Unemployment insurance for all workers.
- Moratorium on farm foreclosures
- Labor law reform to remove barriers to workers who want to join a union.
- No privatization of Social Security. Increase benefits.
- Universal prescription drug coverage administered by Medicare. Universal health care system.
- Restore social safety net. Welfare reform that includes job training, supports and living wages.
- Full funding for equal, quality, bi-lingual public education. No vouchers.

Make Corporate Giants Pay
- Repeal tax cuts to the rich and corporations.
- Close corporate tax loopholes.
- Restitution to workers' pensions.
- Strong regulation of financial industry.
- Regulation and public ownership of utilities
- Prosecute corporate polluters. Public works program to clean our air, water and land
- Aid to cities and states. Federally funded infrastructure repair and social service programs

Foreign Policy for Peace and Justice
- No to war with Iraq - End military interventions
- Repeal Fast Track and NAFTA, stop Free Trade Area of the Americas(FTAA). No secrecy.
- Save Salt II Agreements, reject Star Wars and Nuclear Posture Review
-Abolish nuclear weapons
- End military interventions.
- Cut military budget and fund human needs.

Defend Democracy and Civil Rights
- End racial profiling.
- Repeal the death penalty.
- Enforce civil rights laws and affirmative action.
- Repeal USA Patriot Act.
- Legalization and protection of immigrant rights.
- Public financing of elections. Overall election law reform including Instant Runoff Voting.
- Youth and student bill of rights. Guarantee youth's right to earn,learn and live.


Sounds good to me.

[Anthony]

This is getting a little off topic and deep into territory we try not to...get too deep into here.  No one will change anyones mind, but it looks like everyone has said their peice and it's here for others' consideration.  I don't think an argument needs to grow out of this.

[Zack]

Communism always looks good on paper.  However, someone has to be in charge.  Then.....well we all know what happens from there. For someone who postures themselves as a Conservative, ALP, it makes me wonder how you think Communism sounds good.

[american lockpicker]

Communism always looks good on paper.  However, someone has to be in charge.  Then.....well we all know what happens from there. For someone who postures themselves as a Conservative, ALP, it makes me wonder how you think Communism sounds good.

I'm only conservative on guns.

[ringzero]

Appeasement, whether of... Communists... is never the right choice.

Whats wrong with that?

I hope you're joking.

If you're not joking and really don't know what's wrong with appeasement, then you need to read up on the history of the 20th Century.

.

Well heres what they want in America. Also the its debatable if the so called communist countries(like China) were/are communist.
...
Sounds good to me.

You appear to be either trolling or advocating communism.

Either way, it's a waste of my time to continue this discussion.

.

[american lockpicker]

Yes I advocate it.

[Gadget Guy]

Yes I advocate it.

Move, please!!!