One of the great debates of all times

prime77 · **Reply #30 on:** October 16, 2006, 06:36:10 PM

Quote from: J-sews on October 16, 2006, 01:28:13 PM

How much does the XAVT sell for?

Defs right they all seem to go around the $300 range

J-sews · **Reply #31 on:** October 17, 2006, 01:31:04 AM

Oops, I should have read Def's post a bit more carefully. Thanks!

Grant Lamontagne · **Reply #32 on:** October 17, 2006, 01:34:10 AM

Now come on, let's not do anything silly...

Def

J-sews · **Reply #33 on:** October 17, 2006, 01:52:15 AM

Sorry, bad habits die hard.

So, your SAK/multitool poll is closed. Will you be submitting a summary report, or is more study indicated before any conclusions can be arrived at?

Grant Lamontagne · **Reply #34 on:** October 17, 2006, 02:13:32 AM

I think the results speak for themselves, but I still demand a recount, taking into account the nearly dead even vote from Florida and the absentee vote...

Def

Poncho65 · **Reply #35 on:** June 21, 2016, 04:22:16 AM

Hey Steve what do you think about this

zoidberg · **Reply #36 on:** June 21, 2016, 05:16:29 AM

I should reopen the voting...

Poncho65 · **Reply #37 on:** June 21, 2016, 05:41:36 AM

Quote from: zoidberg on June 21, 2016, 05:16:29 AM

I should reopen the voting...

Yeah for you know uh scientific reasons

Zed · **Reply #38 on:** June 21, 2016, 08:33:51 AM

In certain situations saying a multi tool sounds less scary than Swiss army knife,I remember a lady asking me about my sak as wanted to get her son one,she asked who makes it I said mine was made by Wenger ,she laughed

Kev D · **Reply #39 on:** June 21, 2016, 09:26:22 AM

I'd say yes it is. If it has more than one function than just being a knife etc, and can be used for multi applications, then it's a multitool imho.

Syncop8r · **Reply #40 on:** June 21, 2016, 10:08:39 AM

A few years ago I would have said no. But technically a SAK is a multitool, in fact it's the archetypal multitool.

PS: Poncho, great thread necro - nearly 10 years! You should have waited until October 17.

Poncho65 · **Reply #41 on:** June 21, 2016, 11:58:14 AM

Quote from: Syncop8r on June 21, 2016, 10:08:39 AM

A few years ago I would have said no. But technically a SAK is a multitool, in fact it's the archetypal multitool.

PS: Poncho, great thread necro - nearly 10 years! You should have waited until October 17.

I couldn't probably found it in October if I wanted to

It was just something brought up this past week that was to similar not to bring it back

Grant Lamontagne · **Reply #42 on:** June 21, 2016, 04:25:36 PM

I don't know how you guys are finding these threads, but it is such a cool thing to walk down memory lane!

Def

Poncho65 · **Reply #43 on:** June 21, 2016, 06:08:49 PM

Quote from: Grant Lamontagne on June 21, 2016, 04:25:36 PM

I don't know how you guys are finding these threads, but it is such a cool thing to walk down memory lane!

Def

All this seemed fitting with the 10 year anniversary looming over us

colubrid · **Reply #44 on:** October 25, 2016, 07:52:05 AM

SAKS have pliers that fold in. Where as, multitools ARE pliers.

Padre · **Reply #45 on:** October 25, 2016, 07:56:19 AM

If there is multiple tools its MT.

pfrsantos · **Reply #46 on:** October 25, 2016, 01:21:05 PM

Quote from: Padre on October 25, 2016, 07:56:19 AM

If there is multiple tools its MT.

I agree. Love this little chinese made MT:

Dunkeld · **Reply #47 on:** October 25, 2016, 06:09:39 PM

A SAK can be a multitool.

A multitool cannot be a SAK.

I think.

Aloha · **Reply #48 on:** October 25, 2016, 06:17:01 PM

Quote from: Dunkeld on October 25, 2016, 06:09:39 PM

A SAK can be a multitool.

A multitool cannot be a SAK.

I think.

Possibly. What about the Swisstool and Spirit

powernoodle · **Reply #49 on:** October 25, 2016, 07:47:16 PM

After much meditation, chanting and burning of incense, The Truth has been revealed to me. These are the words of The Prophets, which were given to me in a vision-quest.

Pliers-based tools like the Wave, Spirit and MP600 are multitools.

Knife-based tools like the Classic SD, Tinker, and Explorer are Swiss Army Knives.

A great and mystical chasm separates the two. The Leatherman Wave is not a SAK. The Classic SD is not a multitool.

These are the words of The Prophets.

metasyntax · **Reply #50 on:** October 25, 2016, 07:57:16 PM

SAK : Multi-tool :: Square : Rectangle

All squares are rectangles, not all rectangles are squares. Most people, if they see a square, will not call it a rectangle, even though it's technically true. This is exactly how I see Swiss Army Knives.

QED!

(P.S. Don't ask about multi-bladed traditional pocket knives, that's more of a trapezoid sort of deal.)

G-Dizzle · **Reply #51 on:** October 25, 2016, 08:08:11 PM

Bridging the gap

AimlessWanderer · **Reply #52 on:** October 25, 2016, 08:40:58 PM

A multitool is a multifunctional tool, or tool with multiple functions.

Not all tools are pliers. Not all tools have pliers, multifunctional or otherwise.

An Atwood pry thingummy job is a multitool if it has other features such as wrench or caplifter. Many people call them OPTs, or one piece multitools. They do not have pliers.

A crate opener, one of the combined hammer, axe and prybar efforts, is a multitool. A Stanley FUBAR with all it's bashing, twisting, prying capabilities, is a multitool. They do not have pliers.

Swiss Army Knives for the most part are not actually Swiss Army Knives. Very few were issued to the Swiss Army. They just happen to be made by the same companies that did make stuff for the Swiss Army. They are however, for the most part, multitools. This is because most of them have more tools and features than just being a knife. Some of them have pliers, but that doesn't make a toss of difference.

It is more factually incorrect to call a Victorinox or Wenger multipurpose knife a Swiss Army Knife than it is to call it a multitool - unless it is a model which at some point in history was issued to the Swiss Army - in which case it is both. The Solo models are neither multitool nor Swiss Army Knife, they are just Swiss Knives.

firiki · **Reply #53 on:** October 26, 2016, 09:34:13 AM

Quote from: 50ft-trad on October 25, 2016, 08:40:58 PM

... they are just Swiss Knives.

Just like them SWIZA knives!

I think 50ft nailed it pretty hard

Gerhard Gerber · **Reply #54 on:** October 26, 2016, 02:05:47 PM

In essence this is about were a name can be used or applied to an object, so it's a language question.

Was the term multitool ever used before there were.........multitools?

Was a knife with a can opener, screwdriver and awl ever called multitool before there was............MTO

kkokkolis · **Reply #55 on:** October 26, 2016, 02:18:21 PM

We could see it under a kind of Tool Group Theory light. The group Tools contains totally the subgroup Multitools and this no totally the subgroup Swiss Army Knives. So, any SAK is a Multitool, except a portion of the SAKs group which is outside the Multitool Group (and contains monobladed SAKs such as the Solo). But not any Multitool belongs to the SAKs group. Both SAK and MT groups are contained in the Tools group.
One has to thing hard where to place Swisstools.

AlephZero · **Reply #56 on:** October 27, 2016, 09:37:36 AM

Quote from: 50ft-trad on October 25, 2016, 08:40:58 PM

A multitool is a multifunctional tool, or tool with multiple functions.

Not all tools are pliers. Not all tools have pliers, multifunctional or otherwise.

An Atwood pry thingummy job is a multitool if it has other features such as wrench or caplifter. Many people call them OPTs, or one piece multitools. They do not have pliers.

A crate opener, one of the combined hammer, axe and prybar efforts, is a multitool. A Stanley FUBAR with all it's bashing, twisting, prying capabilities, is a multitool. They do not have pliers.

Swiss Army Knives for the most part are not actually Swiss Army Knives. Very few were issued to the Swiss Army. They just happen to be made by the same companies that did make stuff for the Swiss Army. They are however, for the most part, multitools. This is because most of them have more tools and features than just being a knife. Some of them have pliers, but that doesn't make a toss of difference.

It is more factually incorrect to call a Victorinox or Wenger multipurpose knife a Swiss Army Knife than it is to call it a multitool - unless it is a model which at some point in history was issued to the Swiss Army - in which case it is both. The Solo models are neither multitool nor Swiss Army Knife, they are just Swiss Knives.

Hear hear!

Don Pablo · **Reply #57 on:** October 27, 2016, 11:26:17 AM

Quote from: kkokkolis on October 26, 2016, 02:18:21 PM

We could see it under a kind of Tool Group Theory light. The group Tools contains totally the subgroup Multitools and this no totally the subgroup Swiss Army Knives. So, any SAK is a Multitool, except a portion of the SAKs group which is outside the Multitool Group (and contains monobladed SAKs such as the Solo). But not any Multitool belongs to the SAKs group. Both SAK and MT groups are contained in the Tools group.
One has to thing hard where to place Swisstools.

By Swisstools, do you mean the Spirit, etc?
Going back to that 4x4 and Ferrari analogy I saw on first page, if ferrari made a jeep-style offroad vehicle that does everything a jeep does, would it not be a proper 4x4, even though it is made by ferrari and is ferrari style(expensive, luxurious, high-class)?

So Victorinox made the Spirit, the spirit does everything a multiplier tool does, so the spirit is in the same sub-group as LM, Gerber, SOG, etc multiplier tools are in, is it not?

And the spirit does not also go in the SAK sub-group unless you define the SAK sub-group to be: Anything and everything made by Vic/Wenger. But that causes more problems(where to cheapo clone SAKs go?) so I'll forget that definition.

By the way, I like the diagram.

Mechanickal · **Reply #58 on:** October 27, 2016, 12:57:35 PM

Quote from: Pablo O'Brien on October 27, 2016, 11:26:17 AM

Quote from: kkokkolis on October 26, 2016, 02:18:21 PM
We could see it under a kind of Tool Group Theory light. The group Tools contains totally the subgroup Multitools and this no totally the subgroup Swiss Army Knives. So, any SAK is a Multitool, except a portion of the SAKs group which is outside the Multitool Group (and contains monobladed SAKs such as the Solo). But not any Multitool belongs to the SAKs group. Both SAK and MT groups are contained in the Tools group.
One has to thing hard where to place Swisstools.
By Swisstools, do you mean the Spirit, etc?
Going back to that 4x4 and Ferrari analogy I saw on first page, if ferrari made a jeep-style offroad vehicle that does everything a jeep does, would it not be a proper 4x4, even though it is made by ferrari and is ferrari style(expensive, luxurious, high-class)?

So Victorinox made the Spirit, the spirit does everything a multiplier tool does, so the spirit is in the same sub-group as LM, Gerber, SOG, etc multiplier tools are in, is it not?

And the spirit does not also go in the SAK sub-group unless you define the SAK sub-group to be: Anything and everything made by Vic/Wenger. But that causes more problems(where to cheapo clone SAKs go?) so I'll forget that definition.

By the way, I like the diagram.

Looks like a correct addition to me

Otherwise we have to talk about multi-tools and plier-based-multi-tools. Which doesn't really roll of the tongue...
I might even stop posting if that was the standard

Don Pablo · **Reply #59 on:** October 27, 2016, 03:35:16 PM

"Multi-pliers"(not my word) sounds good, if you know what it means. But it is no stranger than "SAK", right?

Multipliers. MULTI-pliers. multi-PLIERS Hmm, good word.

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One of the great debates of all times

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