Sanyo Eneloops + Charger

[space cowboy]

I guess Eneloops & NIMH are one & the same? I am looking for a safe reliable charger that comes with 2 or 4 AAA batteries. What do you guys suggest I get? Low price would be great. Also any experience with these types of batteries leaking or (shudder) exploding? I have read that Sanyo low discharge batteries are the best. Thanks!

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

I've used eneloops for a good while now with no problems whatsoever

My advice would be to get a charger that already comes with some eneloops

[NutSAK]

I guess Eneloops & NIMH are one & the same?

No sir!  Eneloops are LSD (low self-discharge) NiMH.  There is a huge difference between LSD and regular NiMH.  LSD cells will maintain about a 85% charge if left on a shelf (unused) for a year, and will only have discharged to about 70% after a couple of years.  A regular NiMH cell will lose nearly all of its charge in about 90 days if left unused.

There are other brands of LSD NiMH, such as Ray-O-Vac, but Eneloop have proven themselves to be the best in all of the tests I've seen.  I'm with Mike--I think your best bet would probably be to buy an Eneloop charger/cell set from Amazon.com

[nuphoria]

LSD is definitely the way forward, but if you want a separate charger I recommend the ANSMANN range - I have the Powerline 5.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000COJ13Q/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&seller=

Smart chargers stop charging each battery when it's done and don't waste your electricity or the life of your cells

[space cowboy]

Thanks for the info NutSak! I searched my local Walmart & they have a Rayovac charger with 2 AAA & 2 AA for ten bucks. This should do ok for me.

[NutSAK]

Thanks for the info NutSak! I searched my local Walmart & they have a Rayovac charger with 2 AAA & 2 AA for ten bucks. This should do ok for me.

Be sure those Ray-O-Vacs say "Hybrid" or "pre-charged" on them.  If they don't, they're regular NiMH.

[space cowboy]

Thanks NutSak..! Will do..!

[space cowboy]

Yep, the Rayovac's are pre charged it says on their website. Now for a dumb Question.. are they safe to use in the E01 & Gerber Infinity without over driving the LED causing it to burn out pre maturely?

[NutSAK]

Yep, the Rayovac's are pre charged it says on their website. Now for a dumb Question.. are they safe to use in the E01 & Gerber Infinity without over driving the LED causing it to burn out pre maturely?

Absolutely.  The voltage of NiMH batteries is actually slightly lower than an alkaline battery, so it won't drive the LED quite as hard as alkaline in those lights.

Don't expect to get quite as much runtime out of an E01 or Infinity with NiMH as you do with alkaline.  Alkalines will actually give better runtime in low-current lights such as those, but NiMH will give much better runtime in high-current (high lumen) lights. 

[space cowboy]

Thanks again NutSak! These eneloops sound like a win - win.

[jekostas]

Thanks again NutSak! These eneloops sound like a win - win.

If you're using your lights on a daily basis, LSD-type NiMHs have about 25% less capacity than standard NiMHs, and can't be recharged as many times.  Low self-discharge NiMHs make the most sense if you've got something like an EDC light - you're using it, I dunno, 5-10 minutes a day, and the rest of the time it's just riding in your pocket or on your keychain.

If, on the other hand you have something like a high-power inspection or security light that you're using at high power all the time, standard high-capacity NiMHs make more sense.  More recharges, more short-term runtime.

[NutSAK]

If you're using your lights on a daily basis, LSD-type NiMHs have about 25% less capacity than standard NiMHs, and can't be recharged as many times.  Low self-discharge NiMHs make the most sense if you've got something like an EDC light - you're using it, I dunno, 5-10 minutes a day, and the rest of the time it's just riding in your pocket or on your keychain.

If, on the other hand you have something like a high-power inspection or security light that you're using at high power all the time, standard high-capacity NiMHs make more sense.  More recharges, more short-term runtime.

...and shorter overall life, from what I've read.  Can you show me data that says LSD cannot be charged as many times as regular NiMH?  My experiences have shown that regular NiMH will lose overall capacity at earlier cycle counts than Eneloops, even when deep-cycled regularly.

If you have a high-power inspection or security light, there are better options than NiMH, IMO.

[jekostas]

If you're using your lights on a daily basis, LSD-type NiMHs have about 25% less capacity than standard NiMHs, and can't be recharged as many times.  Low self-discharge NiMHs make the most sense if you've got something like an EDC light - you're using it, I dunno, 5-10 minutes a day, and the rest of the time it's just riding in your pocket or on your keychain.

If, on the other hand you have something like a high-power inspection or security light that you're using at high power all the time, standard high-capacity NiMHs make more sense.  More recharges, more short-term runtime.

...and shorter overall life, from what I've read.  Can you show me data that says LSD cannot be charged as many times as regular NiMH?  My experiences have shown that regular NiMH will lose overall capacity at earlier cycle counts than Eneloops, even when deep-cycled regularly.

If you have a high-power inspection or security light, there are better options than NiMH, IMO.

Perhaps, but a good cycling charger like a Lacrosse will deal with a lot of those issues.

What I was saying is that companies still tend to rate the recharging abilities of LSD in terms of charge cycles far lower than standard NiMHs.  That'll change as the chemistry is tweaked, I suspect, but that's the reality now.

[frugalscotty]

The latest version of Eneloops are rated at 1500 charges.

[NutSAK]

The latest version of Eneloops are rated at 1500 charges.

Exactly.  I thought LSD are usually rated with many more possible charges (1000-1500 charges) than regular NiMH (500 charges).  As stated prior, my experience with 2500-2700 mAH NiMH have proven similar results to those claims, even with deep-cyling (in other words, "reconditioning" or "cycling") when compared to LSD (Sanyo and Ray-O-Vac).  The capacity of the NiMH batteries I've owned have lost overall capacity at about twice the rate as the LSD NiMH (Eneloop, RayOVac Hybrid) cells I've owned.

What I was saying is that companies still tend to rate the recharging abilities of LSD in terms of charge cycles far lower than standard NiMHs.  That'll change as the chemistry is tweaked, I suspect, but that's the reality now.

The chemistry of LSD NiMH and NiMH is the same--they are both nickel metal hydride batteries.  It is the structure, not the chemistry, that differs between these cells.  LSD NiMH have an improved separator and an improved positive electrode.

And as a disclaimer, I personally own a LaCrosse BC-900 and use it regularly for conditioning my NiMH cells.  However, considering the documented history of BC-900 meltdowns, I wouldn't recommend the brand to anyone unless you're OK with the possibility of burning down your house.  For those who want a better option, consider a Maha C9000.

my $0.02

[Turnstone]

After using Eneloops for almost 3 years now, the oldest ones still haven't lost their capacity. I am using a good charger, not a cheap one.
I believe that the charger can make a difference if you use it a lot.

[cerbera147]

Any thoughts on this Terry?


Just under £10 

4 individual charging stations plus two for PP3 cells. I'm only interested in AA and AAA's.

http://www.ledfiretorches.co.uk/vapex-universal-charger.html

My current one works well but I'd prefer a charger that can charge individually. It wasn't a problem before but now I have few things that only take 1 AA or 1 AAA 

[NutSAK]

I would stay clear away from that charger cerbera.  You don't want any charger that has a timer cutoff--it will overcharge cells that are not completely depleted.  What you want to look for is a charger that has -ΔV (negative delta V) detection to automatically terminate charge at proper capacity, and with close to a 1C charge rate.

What I mean by 1C is that it charges with a current that is equal to the mAh capacity of the cell.  For example, an Eneloop is rated as a 2000 mAh cell.  Therefore, a 1C charge rate for an Eneloop would be 2 amps (= 2000 milliamps or mA).  Though 1C is a high charge rate and will heat up your cells while they're charging, this high rate allows the -ΔV circuit to reliably detect when the charge is complete, greatly reducing the chance of overcharging.  Overcharging will damage the cells much more than getting them hot.

Excellent information can be found on this subject at Battery University.  In fact, just about anything you want to know about batteries and their care is provided for you on that site.

[NutSAK]

After using Eneloops for almost 3 years now, the oldest ones still haven't lost their capacity. I am using a good charger, not a cheap one.
I believe that the charger can make a difference if you use it a lot.

That is certainly true Turnstone.  A good charger that has reliable termination will make a world of difference in the life expectancy of your cells.  Proper maintenance of NiMH cells is key.  A set of good NiMH cells deserve a good charger, because they are an investment.  You will be rewarded with great performance from your cells if you spend the extra money on one.

[Nikos]

I was talking with a cpf-er friend of mine the other day about this exact subject. I've been using an MDR-02 charger for some time and I'm very happy with it. My buddy was telling me that the MQR-06 is much better and that there are some great deals on MQR-06+batteries packs on the net. I'm no expert in this field, so take what I say here with a grain of salt.

Link: <clicky>

[cerbera147]

Thanks Terry 

It's £10 for reason then  the search continues 

[NutSAK]

I was talking with a cpf-er friend of mine the other day about this exact subject. I've been using an MDR-02 charger for some time and I'm very happy with it. My buddy was telling me that the MQR-06 is much better and that there are some great deals on MQR-06+batteries packs on the net. I'm no expert in this field, so take what I say here with a grain of salt.

Link: <clicky>

Any of the Eneloop chargers are good, and I also recommend the MQR06--it's the best charger currently available from Sanyo, IMO. 

Even better is the older MQH03 (NC-MQH03-U), but that one is very hard to find.  I've never seen one for sale in the US, but they can be found in some older Costco family packs in Canada, and for sale in Dell Canada's online store.  It is identifiable in the package by the words "Super Quick Charger" on the front of the unit.  The MQH03 is the charger I always use unless I'm testing or reconditioning cells, in which case I use a LaCrosse BC-900 (but recommend the Maha MH-C9000 instead).

Stay away from any charger that only charges cells in pairs or multiples.  If you have to charge in pairs, you need to ensure that the two batteries you're charging are at equal or near equal charge state.  If you don't you will very likely overcharge the cell that had the most charge when it was inserted into the charger.  If you always use cells in multiples of two, this type of charger will work for you, but it will not work well for those of us who use individual cells separately such as in a single-cell flashlight.  Using a charger that can charge individual cells (independent channels) will ensure that each cell is charged to the optimum level, and not overcharged. 

[cerbera147]

Hi Terry,

What do you make of this one?
http://www.maplin.co.uk/quattro-battery-charger-228114
http://buy.energizer.co.uk/detail-ENAAAN004C.html

Failing that I might just go with the Sanyo Eneloop MQR06 Charger for £26.99 with four free Eneloops

[NutSAK]

Hi Terry,

What do you make of this one?
http://www.maplin.co.uk/quattro-battery-charger-228114
http://buy.energizer.co.uk/detail-ENAAAN004C.html

Failing that I might just go with the Sanyo Eneloop MQR06 Charger for £26.99 with four free Eneloops

The MQR-06 is WELL worth the money. (just don't get confused and buy the MQN-06).

I don't know much about the Quattro, but it only charges in pairs.  The MQR-06 charges 1-4 cells individually.  Also, the charge rate of the Quattro is very slow, which leads me to believe that it may be a "timed" charger, rather than a "smart" charger.  Timed chargers will overcharge your cells and greatly reduce the lifetime of your Eneloops.

I think you'd be making a wise investment in the MQR-06. 

[cerbera147]

Thanks Terry 

Got one more to run past you; this'll be the last

Super-Fast, Smart charger. It's the second one on the page for £10-99 

    * Charges NiCd or NiMH AA & AAA batteries.

    * 4 Individual charging channels, so you can charge just 1 battery if that’s all you need.
      You can also charge 4 totally different batteries at the same time.

    * -dV detection (shuts down when it senses full charge is reached)

    * Illuminated LCD display showing charge status.



http://www.component-shop.co.uk/html/body_standard.html#MW6278

[SlackOne]

I got so tired of trying to figure out what charger would be affordable while also working that I finally just broke down and bought a Maha C9000 a few days ago.  So far I'm loving this thing, and the "complicated interface" that I've read elsewhere amount to very little indeed.

This and my new Sharpmaker means I'm trying to get out of a "getting by with junk" mentality for my gear maintenance (and my kitchen knives )

[NutSAK]

Thanks Terry 

Got one more to run past you; this'll be the last

Super-Fast, Smart charger. It's the second one on the page for £10-99 

    * Charges NiCd or NiMH AA & AAA batteries.

    * 4 Individual charging channels, so you can charge just 1 battery if that’s all you need.
      You can also charge 4 totally different batteries at the same time.

    * -dV detection (shuts down when it senses full charge is reached)

    * Illuminated LCD display showing charge status.

(Image removed from quote.)

http://www.component-shop.co.uk/html/body_standard.html#MW6278

-dV detection (smart charging), a good charging rate, 4 independent channels.

I'd say that one is a winner. 

[NutSAK]

I got so tired of trying to figure out what charger would be affordable while also working that I finally just broke down and bought a Maha C9000 a few days ago.  So far I'm loving this thing, and the "complicated interface" that I've read elsewhere amount to very little indeed.

This and my new Sharpmaker means I'm trying to get out of a "getting by with junk" mentality for my gear maintenance (and my kitchen knives )

 

I find that many times it's cheaper and much less frustrating in the long run to just buy the good stuff, rather than trying several products that might be "good enough".

[jekostas]

I got so tired of trying to figure out what charger would be affordable while also working that I finally just broke down and bought a Maha C9000 a few days ago.  So far I'm loving this thing, and the "complicated interface" that I've read elsewhere amount to very little indeed.

This and my new Sharpmaker means I'm trying to get out of a "getting by with junk" mentality for my gear maintenance (and my kitchen knives )

 

I find that many times it's cheaper and much less frustrating in the long run to just buy the good stuff, rather than trying several products that might be "good enough".

Eh, I use the MQN-06.  My only single AA-format light is currently using 14500s, so everything else in in pairs.  At least it has negative delta charging.

[cerbera147]

Thanks Terry 

I'll report back when I get it 

This and my new Sharpmaker means I'm trying to get out of a "getting by with junk" mentality for my gear maintenance

I agree. It's a false economy buying cheap stuff regularly or buying quality, expensive stuff rarely 

Hopefully I've found myself a bargain that will suit my needs with this charger