Chinese steels

batjka104 · **on:** November 05, 2011, 05:19:35 PM

Gentlemen,

Which blade steel is better for edge retention - 8Cr13MoV, 7Cr17MoV or 440C?

Also, how does Tekut compare to SRM?

I'm looking for a decent budget folder and need some help in making a decision.

Thanks in advance.

dks · **Reply #1 on:** November 05, 2011, 06:34:31 PM

I will say 440C is considered better than 8Cr13MoV, but I have no problems with either and the latter is cheaper.
Also there have been sugestions that Chinese branded 440C knives (e.g. Ganzo, Navy) use a chinese equivalent of 440C, rather than actual 440C, but again I have no proof of that.

SRM is generally well liked, Tekut I do not know. There was a mention of them a couple of days ago here... Nothing bad from what I remember.

Jekostas is quite up to date with these here; should be around soon.

The two Chinese steels you mention have slightly different Molybdenum levels and chromium levels, both of which affect corrosion resistance.
As long as the Carbon and heat treatments are the same they should give similar edge retention, though I have been know to be wrong before..

jekostas · **Reply #2 on:** November 05, 2011, 07:24:49 PM

So I've got a rep, huh? Alrighty.

Anyways, as for SRM vs. Tekut, they're actually pretty comparable. SRM is probably the largest *quality* OEM in China right now, and a major manufacturer for western brands such as Boker, Spyderco, CRKT and Buck. Or at least, those are the companies that have admitted to working with SRM, there are likely many more. SRM will give a great knife and a competitive price.
Tekut is the same company as Nextorch, and they outfit many police forces in China and apparently a few in the US as well. I wish I could tell you a little more about them but I confess I have no hands-on experience with any knives made by this company. I will say that any reviews I've read or watched on Tekut knives have been universally good, especially in regards to their Ares series tactical folding knives and larger fixed-blade fighting knives.

As to the steels, that's a trickier one. 8Cr13MoV is a fairly well-known quantity these days. It can be hardened in to the 58-60HRC range (though SRM generally hardens theirs in to the 57-58 range), it can take an excellent edge, is easily sharpenable and is reasonably corrosion resistant.

Chinese 440C is generally thought to be 9Cr18MoV. A little harder, a little better edge retention, but also a touch more brittle than 8Cr13MoV. I've only had one knife in this steel so my experience is kind of limited. While edge retention was a touch better, I can't say it was a night and day difference.

7Cr17MoV is a whole other beast. 7Cr17MoV is very similar to 440A steel from an alloying and heat treating perspective, and as such the results you get from the steel will vary wildly from company to company. For example, both Kershaw and Gerber used 440A for years before the former switched over to using Sandvik steels. Kershaw's heat treat was known to be very good, and 440A done by Kershaw was hardened in to the 56-58HRC range and was known to take a finer edge than 440C because of the simpler alloy. Gerber's heat treat did (and still does) make better butter knives than functional pocket knives. Eickhorn also had a very nice 440A. My guess is that Tekut's heat treat will be very good, but since the company has a tactical background the treatment will likely favour toughness and sharpenability over absolute hardness. It'll also be more corrosion resistant than 8Cr13MoV.

My guess in terms of edge retention from best to worst will be 440C->8Cr14MoV->8Cr13MoV->7Cr17MoV. In terms of functional usage, I don't know if you'll find massive differences, though.

batjka104 · **Reply #3 on:** November 05, 2011, 07:47:34 PM

Thank you all for the replies. This is a very interesting subject that I really have no knowledge in.
Tekut has a knife on Dealextreme that uses 440C. All their other knives use 7Cr17MoV steels. The prices are quite decent and I like the looks of their knives.

I was actually looking at Tekut Pengu on ebay. It reminds me a bit of Spyderco blades, but it is an original design. Maybe I'll give it and some other knife a shot. At $10-12 I can afford a couple.

Heinz Doofenshmirtz · **Reply #4 on:** November 05, 2011, 08:43:30 PM

I have both a Tenacious and a Resilience which have the 8Cr13Mov steel in them. I can't say much about the Resilience, as I just got it, but I've had my Tenacious over a year now, and it's been a great beater knife, very reliable. I use it for things I don't want to use my Endura or Delica for.

I've found that with my Tenacious, the edge holding seems quite good, but I've also reprofiled the edge. It came with a plain old flat ground edge, which was fine, but after some hard use it did dull and show some very slight dings. I reground it by hand to have a convex edge, much like what you'd put on an axe head. It certainly won't get quite as sharp as the edge on my VG10 Spyderco's but that's mostly a function of the edge profile I've given it. With the convex edge, I certainly have to put a little more elbow grease into the things I use it for, but I've found that the edge retention is much better now. And since I use it for stuff I don't want to use my better Spydies for, it's a better solution for me.

asupernothing · **Reply #5 on:** November 07, 2011, 03:39:09 AM

withdrawn

jekostas · **Reply #6 on:** November 07, 2011, 05:21:55 AM

Quote from: asupernothing on November 07, 2011, 03:39:09 AM

I don't own either steel since it just never interested me, but they should be on par for a $10 knife.

If Spyderco, Kershaw, CRKT, Benchmade, Meyerco, Buck and SOG all think 8Cr13MoV is a good steel to use in knives that cost a heckuva lot more than $10 I'm inclined to agree with them.

Heinz Doofenshmirtz · **Reply #7 on:** November 07, 2011, 06:05:22 AM

Quote from: jekostas on November 07, 2011, 05:21:55 AM

Quote from: asupernothing on November 07, 2011, 03:39:09 AM
I don't own either steel since it just never interested me, but they should be on par for a $10 knife.

If Spyderco, Kershaw, CRKT, Benchmade, Meyerco, Buck and SOG all think 8Cr13MoV is a good steel to use in knives that cost a heckuva lot more than $10 I'm inclined to agree with them.

I don't have a problem with the 8Cr13Mov steel. It honestly doesn't seem that much softer than the VG10 in the other Spydies I have... Maybe I just haven't really beat on them yet for it to be an issue, but so far I've had no problems. While I don't baby my knives, I do make a point of taking care of my equipment, so take that for what it's worth.

jekostas · **Reply #8 on:** November 07, 2011, 06:24:41 AM

Quote from: Heinz Doofenshmirtz on November 07, 2011, 06:05:22 AM

Quote from: jekostas on November 07, 2011, 05:21:55 AM
Quote from: asupernothing on November 07, 2011, 03:39:09 AM
I don't own either steel since it just never interested me, but they should be on par for a $10 knife.

If Spyderco, Kershaw, CRKT, Benchmade, Meyerco, Buck and SOG all think 8Cr13MoV is a good steel to use in knives that cost a heckuva lot more than $10 I'm inclined to agree with them.

I don't have a problem with the 8Cr13Mov steel. It honestly doesn't seem that much softer than the VG10 in the other Spydies I have... Maybe I just haven't really beat on them yet for it to be an issue, but so far I've had no problems. While I don't baby my knives, I do make a point of taking care of my equipment, so take that for what it's worth.

8Cr13MoV was developed in conjunction with Spyderco, and it was originally meant to be a Chinese version of 440C. The original Byrd line was marked as such. However, alloying and usage wise it's almost identical to AUS-8 steel. The difference is that 8Cr13MoV can be hardened a few points higher on the Rockwell scale than AUS-8 without becoming brittle, but the latter is slightly more corrosion resistant. It's not a bad steel by any means. Not super-duper high end, but a good, solid everyday usage steel.

There is actually a Chinese steel with similar characteristics to VG-10 though, and it's 9Cr13CoMoV. It adds cobalt for edge retention and it's apparently quite good. I don't have any long-term experience with the steel like I do with VG-10 or 8Cr13MoV steel, though. You can find it in some Benchmade models in the Harley-Davidson line as well as the discontinued Pika 2 line.

asupernothing · **Reply #9 on:** November 07, 2011, 07:08:39 AM

Actually 9cr13comov is a steel I would like to play with, and I am looking forward to it. As you said it is very similar in composition to vg-10, which is a steel I really like.

Heinz Doofenshmirtz · **Reply #10 on:** November 07, 2011, 07:34:14 PM

That 9-13 sounds interesting. Although I can't honestly say I need another knife right now, considering that in the past couple of months I bought a new Endura, Delica, Dragonfly 2, Byrd Wings, and have a Stretch 2 on order right now...

I'm very pleased with the Wings in fact... both blades are the 8Cr13MoV and it's a very nice tool. I got it for $30 shipped from Jeff at Cutlery Shoppe. It looks like it'll be a great camp / utility knife. I'm still undecided as to how I'm going to purpose it though... I've been thinking I should put it on the waist belt of my hiking pack, but I was also thinking about putting my new Work Champ there as well. I think the Wings will be a better choice for that though, and I'll probably stow the Work Champ inside the pack itself so I have it for other types of small jobs that it'll be more appropriate for than just general hacking and cutting. I'm planning on a hike this weekend, so I might get a chance to put it through some paces.

Ashley · **Reply #11 on:** November 11, 2011, 05:20:45 AM

I've had no trouble with any of the spyderco china knives and I have a friend who uses srm all the time and loves there stuff. For 10-15$ what can you lose really? I say try it.

Heinz Doofenshmirtz · **Reply #12 on:** November 11, 2011, 06:06:03 PM

batjka104,

Just get yourself either a Tenacious or a Resilience; they're both great knives. If you want some thing that is going to specifically be an EDC knife, then get a Persistence; it's basically a slightly smaller Tenacious. It's blade shape is nearly the same, but it's about a 1/2" shorter. Many people say the Resilience is just a bigger Tenacious, but I don't agree. It's almost a full inch longer and an ounce heavier, and its blade profile is markedly different than the Tenacious. Regardless, you should check them all out.

I'd recommend you go with Cutlery Shoppe, Jeff Loffer, the owner, has great service and his prices on Spydercos are the best I've seen. Last time I checked he had the Resilience for $36 and the Tenacious for $32.

paulie.4x · **Reply #13 on:** August 28, 2017, 07:39:50 AM

Say Heah Guy's, Yup I have a couple of Steel Will Knives, I really like the steel, I just wish my Druid 230 was a bit wider so it would increase the weight a little, But my Druid 240 Me Like.,,. p

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

pomsbz · **Reply #14 on:** August 29, 2017, 06:27:57 PM

I have a CRKT in 8Cr13MoV and it's a 'cut once sharpen once' steel IMO. My GEC 440C is considerably better for edge retention.

shark_za · **Reply #15 on:** August 30, 2017, 08:30:20 AM

There is only one problem with Chinese knives.
Are you getting what is printed on the blade?

8Cr13MoV is fair and I trust it is what you are getting from the big name makers.
Other companies can use whatever they want and then write whatever they want on the blades.
Is it actually even 8Cr13 you are buying?

Jors · **Reply #16 on:** October 01, 2017, 09:26:56 AM

Not all knives made in China are poor quality.

I recently bought the smaal Buck cano, two bladed knife, made in China for Buck under contract.

The blades are made from a stainless steel traditionally used for lining. It is a fraction softer, but it is holding its cutting edge well. I have used mine now for at least six months. It compares in my opinion to the Swiss Army Knives and keeps its edge longer than Leatherman blades.

I also have a Tekut, wich is well made.

I am now 54, realising I will not live forever, so I dont buy the very best anymore, as I will not be able to sharpen up a blade. If I could sharpen a SAK narrower by 3mm with a Lansky kit in 35 years, I will not do so with a cheapo. I need reasonable workmanship, price and edge holding.

SteveC · **Reply #17 on:** October 01, 2017, 03:54:54 PM

I've been carrying and using this Sanrenmu LAND 910 for a couple of months now. It has 12C27 steel and this thing holds a great edge. I've only had to touch it up once on my Lansky turnbox and it's shaving sharp. It's the perfect size for EDC IMO. It also has bearing in the pivot and is a nice weight, not to heavy due to the hollowed out frame.

Under $20 on E-Bay