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Survival Knives 22448

Head Turd Polisher Administrator Just Bananas Posts: 61,072 Optimum instrumentum est inter aures
Re: Survival Knives
« Reply #30 on: February 29, 2012, 02:00:44 AM »
Looks like I have opened a good can of worms with this one!  It seems that while we all disagree on the details, we are all more or less on the same page though.

I will say that if the SHTF, someone please keep an eye on Chako as I doubt he's going to survive on his own very long relying on the Navitool!  :P

Def

Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.
In Memoriam No Life Club Posts: 1,014 "Live long and ..useful."
Re: Survival Knives
« Reply #31 on: February 29, 2012, 04:15:27 AM »
Great thread. 

The funny thing about survival situations is that you can only prepare for so much.  I feel that a multitool is much more likely to provide utility than a survival knife is.  Ultimately it depends on the survival scenario as to what type of knife or tool will be most useful.

The tool you have with you will always be the most useful;I always have a multi-tool and don't own a survival knife. 

I love Les Stroud's general respect for his environment.  The premise behind his show is that each episode is a scenario in which he uses the materials he would likely have with him. and I find that the fact that he most often uses a multi-tool is realistic for me. 

Bear Gryll's just rubs me the wrong way how he seem very cavalier about his situation and the environment around him.

When the SHTF you never know what you will actaully have with you so I constantly practice situational awareness, and constantly imagine, research and train to be able to make anything a survival tool.

:)
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,513 Armed with camera and not afraid to use it.
Re: Survival Knives
« Reply #32 on: February 29, 2012, 04:20:06 AM »
It has a good compass, fire capabilities, and some sharp and pointy bits. The Navitool isn't all that bad.  :D


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Global Moderator Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 9,628 SAK Surgeon
Re: Survival Knives
« Reply #33 on: February 29, 2012, 04:30:39 AM »
The one think that bugs me about all the 'pros' with their survival knives is that thy seem to think that battening through wood is a must.  Come on.  First of all, where do these hardcore guys find all this nicely sawed logs to baton in the woods anyway anyway.  The first time I saw someone do this I thought they were crazy.   A good axe can do a hell of a lot of tasks, from tree felling, carving, game cleaning.  I LOVE my granfors bruks small forest axe.  For a cheaper option Estwings will last a lifetime. 

Somewhat regional though an axe in Canada is as to a machete in the jungle.

I still want to try one of these as a modern Rambo style knife.. its one piece but hollow.  It will probably suck, but I need to get one to know for sure.

http://www.knifecenter.com/item/SCHF1SM/schrade-extreme-survival-special-forces-5


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Sr. Member Posts: 318
Survival Knives
« Reply #34 on: February 29, 2012, 05:10:06 AM »
I have to agree about the axe (or hatchet). Most anything can be done with an axe. Can't say the same for a multitool or a rifle. When push comes to shove, I'd also want a tough knife with me if at all possible.

I've read some positive reports about that Schrade knife, but I'd like to get my hands on one before I part with cash. I've owned a couple of the '80's hollow handle paper weights and don't want to waste any more money on what could be more of the same junk.

Dave


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Re: Survival Knives
« Reply #35 on: February 29, 2012, 05:13:37 AM »
Bob and I discussed this at SHOT after looking at the Les Stroud knives and I kept meaning to get everyone else's thoughts on it.  The recent Opinel survival knife thread has reminded me about it, so here goes.

When we looked at the Les Stroud knives at the show we saw that basically the knives weren't anything special (as expected) but they did have lots of gadgets attached to the sheaths like sharpeners, reflectors and places to wrap lots of paracord.  In a survival situation, all of these would be handy, but then so would a Howard Johnson's.   ::)

Survival, in my mind falls into two categories- lost in the woods and SHTF situations.  If you are lost in the woods, I can't help but feel that your cell phone or a SPOT type GPS transmitter is your best friend, and probably a lot more useful than a knife.  If you are lost in the woods, you probably want to be found, and you could use your knife to chop up some wood and build a signal fire and perhaps be rescued when a passing aircraft notices you, or you can press the panic button or dial 911 on your cell phone and help comes right to you.  There are good reasons to have a knife, but if I had to choose one, I'd choose the phone or GPS emergency transmitter.

In a SHTF (Smurf Hits The Fan) type situation where you are on your own and there's no help in sight a knife could certainly be handy as well, but I think I would be more inclined to try and scrounge whatever I could.  While I would appreciate a knife, it would be one of several dozen items I would want to secure, and perhaps not the highest priority item on the list- firearms, ammunition, food and clean water would top my list, although a knife would be a very close second tier need to the above items.  Naturally a good knife would be important, and could perhaps aid in getting some of the above items, but they are also a lot easier to find, whether it be a kitchen knife or a decent sharp rock.  Despite what Captain Kirk managed to do while being chased by a giant lizard man, it's somewhat difficult to build a gun from nothing.

In short, much like the survival knife craze of the 80's, the knife is a handy tool but is simply not what survival is about, no matter who's name is on it or how much paracord it has wrapped around it, the survival is in the person, not the tool.  Because of this, I really don't care for so called survival knives simply because people will buy them and think they are prepared- they are not.  The knife is a valuable part of survival, no matter the situation, but it it only a part.

Personally I think it's going to be easy to locate a knife in a SHTF type situation as there are going to be a lot of yuppie corpses clutching some really neat knives lying around.

Def


Whilst I agree with what you've written, I do feel you could have been a tad more tactful, subtle shall we say?? (Hmm, slander springs to mind).

But, on the whole I agree. Survival knives are just too limiting. Given the choice I'd pick this everytime  obviously paired with my MT too.

« Last Edit: February 29, 2012, 05:50:58 AM by tosh »

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Re: Survival Knives
« Reply #36 on: February 29, 2012, 06:07:29 AM »
I've got an old book from the 70's on survival. It's by an Australian fellow named Graves. Quite a thorough book with rope weaving, lacing branches and even how to build mud houses. It's questionable how much of it would pertain to my area, but as a kid I thought it a real find. I found the part about eating cats a bit too much, but hey, when in Melbourne...

Anyway, he recommends eschewing a knife or axe for a machete for survival use. I carry one in my emergency bag in my car. God help me if a policeman ever has need to search my vehicle! :whistle:

Lets see how strong my Google foo is.... was it Richard H graves. Bushcraft: A Serious guide to camping and Survival.

Whilst i understand the machete over axe school of thought, small fixed blades like the becker Bk11, and izula (or even smaller CRKT RSK/ Becker remora) really make not paring a knife silly.

Ï'm hoping the 12"ontario cutlass/machete is the last machete i'll ever buy that meets my real requirements in form and function... But so far the CS Spetznav shovel seems a much better tool for the blade sensitive thoughtless blanket attitudes :D

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Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,513 Armed with camera and not afraid to use it.
Re: Survival Knives
« Reply #37 on: February 29, 2012, 02:26:25 PM »
You can tell Def, I am a big fan and user of the humble brick called the Navitool.   :pok:  :pok: :D

This is my user...



I have these residing in my collection, and my user above.

« Last Edit: February 29, 2012, 02:32:48 PM by Chako »

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No Life Club Posts: 2,901
Re: Survival Knives
« Reply #38 on: February 29, 2012, 05:53:27 PM »
This is turning into a great thread guys!  And I agree with boss-man; we all seem to have slightly different interpretations and preferences, but we're all thinking pretty much alike.  It seems that a knife alone is one of the less useful things to have in a lost in the wood type of situation. 

I would really love to have GB small forest axe... it's at the top of my wish list for camping gear, but I know my wife would kill me for buying one.  She just wouldn't understand why I'd need to spend $100+ for what would seem to her be nothing more than an overgrown hatchet...  :facepalm:

I've been meaning to get Cody's book, but just never had a chance really.  The outdoors skills classes I've taken were taught by people who've done Cody's training as well.  Lots of good info, and I like his approach of working with the environment instead of against it.  I like that about Les too, but I have a big problem with the way he does his editing... I mean, do we need a cut scene every 20 or 30 seconds?  I mean come on... that's just gonna give me a seizure fer cryin' out loud!

Anyway, great thread!  Keep it comin'!  :)

The first Noble Truth: life is suffering.  Only by accepting that fact can we transcend it.
Global Moderator Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 9,628 SAK Surgeon
Re: Survival Knives
« Reply #39 on: February 29, 2012, 06:58:36 PM »
I would really love to have GB small forest axe... it's at the top of my wish list for camping gear, but I know my wife would kill me for buying one.  She just wouldn't understand why I'd need to spend $100+ for what would seem to her be nothing more than an overgrown hatchet...  :facepalm:

Well... you can shave with it!  The first thing i did when i got it was shave hair off my arm... others said it came that sharp so I had to know.  How manly is it to see your husband shaving with an axe before heading into work!  LOL.  Tell your wife that.

A huge tree came down in my backyard last year.  I chopped the entire thing up small enough to put in leaf bags... that axe was just a pleasure to use, light but perfectly weighted.   I was going through the 10 inch trunk of the tree so fast it was just a joy to use.  LOVE IT.  I do baby that axe though, i wont chop near the ground with it.  I have a full size Estwing for dirtier work, the all metal full size, its good too altough I did manage to bend it once.

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Re: Survival Knives
« Reply #40 on: February 29, 2012, 11:25:01 PM »
I would really love to have GB small forest axe... it's at the top of my wish list for camping gear, but I know my wife would kill me for buying one.  She just wouldn't understand why I'd need to spend $100+ for what would seem to her be nothing more than an overgrown hatchet...  :facepalm:

Well... you can shave with it!  The first thing i did when i got it was shave hair off my arm... others said it came that sharp so I had to know.  How manly is it to see your husband shaving with an axe before heading into work!  LOL.  Tell your wife that.

A huge tree came down in my backyard last year.  I chopped the entire thing up small enough to put in leaf bags... that axe was just a pleasure to use, light but perfectly weighted.   I was going through the 10 inch trunk of the tree so fast it was just a joy to use.  LOVE IT.  I do baby that axe though, i wont chop near the ground with it.  I have a full size Estwing for dirtier work, the all metal full size, its good too altough I did manage to bend it once.
Oh, I trust you, believe me!  You're preaching to the choir here...  I know my wife though and unless I saved up and paid for it myself I'd be in the dog house for quite a while.   :o  I have a regular Fiskars axe, a 28" chopper, that has been a great tool.  I've put a good convex edge on it and it does everything I ask of it, but it's not something I'd want to stow in my pack for backpacking or the like.  I don't think it would be well suited to use as a lost in the woods kind of tool either.  And, I know that having a tool with craftsmanship of a GB will be pleasing in and of itself. 

So if I could only pick one tool to be lost in the woods with, I'd take my Work Champ first.  I would also consider a Charge AL as well, but I don't actually have one, so I can't speak to that, but from what I know about them, I think it'd be the next most similar kind of tool.

If I could have two, then I definitely want an axe too, even my Fiskars would work, though of course I'd prefer to have the GB.  From there, it's just typical stuff... saw, fixed blade, paracord, duct tape, etc.

The first Noble Truth: life is suffering.  Only by accepting that fact can we transcend it.
Wielder of the Bow of Banishment. Admin Team Point Of No Return Posts: 31,177 El Presidente del Fan Club Micky D
Re: Survival Knives
« Reply #41 on: March 01, 2012, 12:42:52 AM »
This is turning into a great thread guys!  And I agree with boss-man; we all seem to have slightly different interpretations and preferences, but we're all thinking pretty much alike.  It seems that a knife alone is one of the less useful things to have in a lost in the wood type of situation. 

I would really love to have GB small forest axe... it's at the top of my wish list for camping gear, but I know my wife would kill me for buying one.  She just wouldn't understand why I'd need to spend $100+ for what would seem to her be nothing more than an overgrown hatchet...  :facepalm:

I've been meaning to get Cody's book, but just never had a chance really.  The outdoors skills classes I've taken were taught by people who've done Cody's training as well.  Lots of good info, and I like his approach of working with the environment instead of against it.  I like that about Les too, but I have a big problem with the way he does his editing... I mean, do we need a cut scene every 20 or 30 seconds?  I mean come on... that's just gonna give me a seizure fer cryin' out loud!

Anyway, great thread!  Keep it comin'!  :)

Funnily it was my wife that bought me my SFA. :D

The one think that bugs me about all the 'pros' with their survival knives is that thy seem to think that battening through wood is a must.  Come on.  First of all, where do these hardcore guys find all this nicely sawed logs to baton in the woods anyway anyway.  The first time I saw someone do this I thought they were crazy.   A good axe can do a hell of a lot of tasks, from tree felling, carving, game cleaning.  I LOVE my granfors bruks small forest axe.  For a cheaper option Estwings will last a lifetime. 

Somewhat regional though an axe in Canada is as to a machete in the jungle.

I still want to try one of these as a modern Rambo style knife.. its one piece but hollow.  It will probably suck, but I need to get one to know for sure.

http://www.knifecenter.com/item/SCHF1SM/schrade-extreme-survival-special-forces-5



totally agree with this. :salute:  There are excellent reasons that different tools are popular in different environments, axes in temperate regions and machete's etc in more tropical areas.  That said I don't mind being out and about without an axe, but I'll not go into the hills without a small sheath knife and, perhaps even more vital for survival, a good folding saw.

Try not to be the person who blunders around and causes everyone else to get out the way.  Everyone else thinks you're a utter...
Head Turd Polisher Administrator Just Bananas Posts: 61,072 Optimum instrumentum est inter aures
Re: Survival Knives
« Reply #42 on: March 01, 2012, 04:11:29 AM »
Tosh, if you think I'm being slanderous in that post then you obviously have not seen my posts talking about the crap from Taylor Cutlery or United.  I stand by what I say and I challenge anyone I have slandered to prove me wrong.

In fact, the Les Stroud Knives appear to be better than I thought they'd be. Unfortunately there were only mock ups at SHOT so I was unable to see the finished product but the specs sounded good.  The reality is that I am not going to carry an overly bulky fixed blade with a sheath full of gadgets around all the time just in case the fan turns brown.  I may keep it in a bug out bag, but if I have a bug out bag the it probably has the same stuff on the fancy sheath does, only in greater quantities.  What I need to be able to survive with is what I have with me, which in many cases means a SAK and/or multitool.

I can be a lot more slanderous if you'd like though! >:)

Def

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Re: Survival Knives
« Reply #43 on: March 01, 2012, 06:00:32 PM »
Tosh, if you think I'm being slanderous in that post then you obviously have not seen my posts talking about the crap from Taylor Cutlery or United.  I stand by what I say and I challenge anyone I have slandered to prove me wrong.

In fact, the Les Stroud Knives appear to be better than I thought they'd be. Unfortunately there were only mock ups at SHOT so I was unable to see the finished product but the specs sounded good.  The reality is that I am not going to carry an overly bulky fixed blade with a sheath full of gadgets around all the time just in case the fan turns brown.  I may keep it in a bug out bag, but if I have a bug out bag the it probably has the same stuff on the fancy sheath does, only in greater quantities.  What I need to be able to survive with is what I have with me, which in many cases means a SAK and/or multitool.

I can be a lot more slanderous if you'd like though! >:)

Def

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Hi DEF

I'm sure you can...lol.
 
Hope I don't get on the wrong side of you!!  :oops:

TBH I care not a jot about L/S knives and if the truth be told I don't even know what a L/S knife looks like.
I was merely surprised that you were so blatantly and publically slating the guy's products. I've always assumed there to be some form of mutual protocol on forums where we all in general try to avoid potentially damaging  or slanderous remarks. As with any purchase, we all have a choice of wether we buy or we don't buy. If enough people refuse to buy his product then he'll either go out of business or hopefully better still learn his lesson and  "up his game" and relaunch a better product we do want to buy.

Given hindsight, maybe I shouldn't have posted my original comment - sorry if I've annoyed you in any way Def. I can always retract/alter the comment if you so wish.

Apologies   :salute:

Tosh

I don't claim to know it all, but what I do know is right.
In Memoriam No Life Club Posts: 1,014 "Live long and ..useful."
Survival Knives
« Reply #44 on: March 01, 2012, 07:49:28 PM »
I don't think Def has a bad side Tosh. You'll find that in general this forum fosters an atmosphere that allows us to all be honest even if our opinions are negative towards a particular product.

This is the very best part of this forum.

:)
Global Moderator Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 9,628 SAK Surgeon
Re: Survival Knives
« Reply #45 on: March 01, 2012, 07:58:28 PM »
Ya this is one of the few forums where you can express strong opionions both good and bad, and not get bashed for it.  Its nice!  Like.. freedom!

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Head Turd Polisher Administrator Just Bananas Posts: 61,072 Optimum instrumentum est inter aures
Re: Survival Knives
« Reply #46 on: March 02, 2012, 01:15:14 PM »
Not to worry Tosh- your comments are welcome here.  As the other guys have said, I am happy to have folks express opinions no matter which direction they go.

Perhaps I didn't explain myself properly though.  The specs on the Les Stroud knives make them sound like they will be decent knives, and I have yet to encounter one in person to alter that thought in any way.  I only used them as an example of the types of knives that I have issues with, largely because it was a discussion Bob and I had after leaving the Camillus booth at SHOT.  My issue is not with the abilities of the knives themselves, be they Bear Grylls knives, Les Stroud knives or just survival knives in general, it's with the concept that the "survival" is in the knife, not the person.

Some people will survive whether they have a survival knife or not.  Others will not, even with the most expensive survival knife on the market.  I don't like the idea that companies promote by offering survival type knives, and that if you buy that knife you'll be safe from anything.  I think the money would be better spent on a case of freeze dried food and water purifiers, then depend on your SAK for any knife needs you may have.

Buying a special knife to keep you alive in SHTF type situations in my opinion is a waste of money- and in no way is aimed directly at Les Stroud, Bear Grylls, Ray Mears, Rambo or anyone else.  Buying a good knife to have and use on a daily basis that you'll also have handy in case of a SHTF type situation makes a heck of a lot more sense.

That was my point.  Although I will say this, the day the dump truck full of cash rolls up to my door, I guarantee you'll be seeing a Defender line of survival tools too.  My integrity is important to me, but so are gold plated supermodels lounging by the pool.   >:D

Def

Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 19,550

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******** *
Re: Survival Knives
« Reply #47 on: March 02, 2012, 01:39:02 PM »
I did the whole rambo knife thing back in the 80's , it has stuck in my mind even to this day and still love tactical agressive looking sawback knives, but back then it was more free and easy and i think its all been done, for me i prefer a more solid type of knife or more uk pratical , these are my set ups,


does what i need,


Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 21,458 Gone

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********* *
Re: Survival Knives
« Reply #48 on: March 02, 2012, 01:41:21 PM »
I did the whole rambo knife thing back in the 80's
:facepalm:
Pictures or it did not happen!!!


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Zombie Apprentice Posts: 19,550

Zed gb

******** *
Re: Survival Knives
« Reply #49 on: March 02, 2012, 01:45:36 PM »
I did the whole rambo knife thing back in the 80's
:facepalm:
Pictures or it did not happen!!!


 :D

 :rofl:  no pics mate , it was a secret group  ;) amazing though that we ran around local woods with these knives, i had a huge bowie once i carried, oh to be young agian, and back to the 80's  :D

this was one of my  rambo knife of choice back in the 80's
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 01:55:30 PM by Zed »
Global Moderator Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 9,628 SAK Surgeon
Re: Survival Knives
« Reply #50 on: March 02, 2012, 02:01:30 PM »
I miss the 80s, things were simpler and cooler then!  I remember staring at an ad for the $10 rambo knife in a magazine then finally got my parents to order it for me... the blade snapped off in a week... The wire 'saw' also never made it through a single branch.

Def, if you do get a dump truck full of cash, be sure to post pics.   :D

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Head Turd Polisher Administrator Just Bananas Posts: 61,072 Optimum instrumentum est inter aures
Re: Survival Knives
« Reply #51 on: March 02, 2012, 02:13:45 PM »
There's nothing wrong with being a whore, just don't be a cheap whore....  this is the dump truck I'm expecting:



No small bills.

Def

Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 6,034
Survival Knives
« Reply #52 on: March 02, 2012, 04:12:49 PM »
I think the idea of a "survival" knife is futile. I can make a knife from anything. Rock, metal, sharpened stick will work in a pinch. You can have a backpack full of "survival" gear but without the knowledge to use it, it may as be filled with rocks :twak:
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 16,837 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: Survival Knives
« Reply #53 on: March 02, 2012, 04:17:06 PM »
Rocks could be useful. However, if it was filled with blue cheese I think I'd just give up there and then. Blue cheese is evil ... I might have mentioned that before  :think:  :P



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No Life Club Posts: 2,577 There is no spoon
Re: Survival Knives
« Reply #54 on: March 02, 2012, 04:43:52 PM »
Here you go Al, have a nibble:



 >:D

Never underestimate the power of the fleece
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 6,034
Survival Knives
« Reply #55 on: March 02, 2012, 04:44:47 PM »
Mmmm ahhhh bleu cheese ahhh mmm love it. I might send u some :evil: lol
No Life Club Posts: 2,577 There is no spoon
Re: Survival Knives
« Reply #56 on: March 02, 2012, 04:52:33 PM »
Grilled Blue Cheese :drool:


Never underestimate the power of the fleece
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 16,837 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: Survival Knives
« Reply #57 on: March 02, 2012, 05:30:41 PM »
You see Grant, a big fixed blade knife is ESSENTIAL.

I'm far more likely to be able to deter someone wielding mould ridden filth like that, than with a Victorinox Farmer. Even if waving a 10" saw back bowie at them isn't scary enough to instantly scare them away, it may induce sufficient fear fuelled flatulence to mask the smell for a bit. I can't believe that fixed blade knives carry restrictions on where and when they can be used and carried in the UK, but blue cheese doesn't  :think: In fact I believe UK laws actually includes the threat of blue cheese in the prescribed examples of when fixed blade knives and swords can be carried ... or if not, it should do

 :whistle:

At least I have inbuilt security measures against such putrid evil, one whiff of that stuff and you'll think you've walked into an Exorcist movie ... but this time it's a hairy Yorkshireman with a strange taste in multitools whose head is spinning and emitting green slime at high velocities.

Pure unfettered evil that stuff!!! :mn:



The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad
Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 21,458 Gone

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********* *
Re: Survival Knives
« Reply #58 on: March 02, 2012, 05:51:11 PM »
I am not big on blue cheese but Broccoli and Stilton soup was one of of my favourites  :drool: in the UK... I am really annoyed I can not find it here....

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Al : "Women!"

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Wielder of the Bow of Banishment. Admin Team Point Of No Return Posts: 31,177 El Presidente del Fan Club Micky D
Re: Survival Knives
« Reply #59 on: March 02, 2012, 06:53:55 PM »
You see Grant, a big fixed blade knife is ESSENTIAL.

I'm far more likely to be able to deter someone wielding mould ridden filth like that, than with a Victorinox Farmer. Even if waving a 10" saw back bowie at them isn't scary enough to instantly scare them away, it may induce sufficient fear fuelled flatulence to mask the smell for a bit. I can't believe that fixed blade knives carry restrictions on where and when they can be used and carried in the UK, but blue cheese doesn't  :think: In fact I believe UK laws actually includes the threat of blue cheese in the prescribed examples of when fixed blade knives and swords can be carried ... or if not, it should do

 :whistle:

At least I have inbuilt security measures against such putrid evil, one whiff of that stuff and you'll think you've walked into an Exorcist movie ... but this time it's a hairy Yorkshireman with a strange taste in multitools whose head is spinning and emitting green slime at high velocities.

Pure unfettered evil that stuff!!! :mn:

So my meet-up shopping list consists of a jar of Marmite for Neil and a big block of stilton for you?  Will do. :salute:

Try not to be the person who blunders around and causes everyone else to get out the way.  Everyone else thinks you're a utter...

 

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June Goal: $300.00
Due Date: Jun 30
Total Receipts: $167.00
PayPal Fees: $10.87
Net Balance: $156.13
Below Goal: $143.87
Site Currency: USD
52% 
June Donations

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