New trend for firearms?

[pfrsantos]

Don't know if this is the right place for this, but it's as gadgety as it gets:

http://www.armatix.de/iP1-Pistol.779.0.html?&L=1

[Grail Knight]

Collectors item unless they get the costs down.

[RT1969]

Ähm, äh, what?

There is so much that will break in this thing...

Is this some try to get this pistol approved in countys where it isnormally forbidden?
I mean, if you need an electronic eye to see if you are pointing at the target, maybe better not pick up a gun in the first place?
 

[pfrsantos]

Not to mention you could get your watch stollen or running out of battery when you need to use the gun...

Like I said, it's a gadget. I don't see myself getting one of these...

[Kampfer]

No thanks, I take my Mauser (World's first successful semi-auto pistol) over that anyday.
Photo of me shooting my Mauser during a battle reenactment.


And here is a historical photo

[jerseydevil]

C/96!  7.63mm or 9?

Sent from my SCH-S738C using Tapatalk

[Kampfer]

7.63

[kirk13]

Kampfer,you have a broomhandle Mauser?! Oh I hate you

[Etherealicer]

Don't discredit that quickly, there are benefits that might outweigh the drawbacks at some point (After some testing and probably more development).

Simple electronics are far more reliable than the mechanics of a gun. You check your guns magazine too, so can you check your batteries.


I think the most worrisome thing about this is that a strong signal can overlay your weak watch signal and disable your gun.

[Kampfer]

Kampfer,you have a broomhandle Mauser?! Oh I hate you

I have more Mausers than Leathermans.  but I don't EDC them.
Another photo for Mauser lovers:

[dmanuel]

Simple electronics are far more reliable than the mechanics of a gun. You check your guns magazine too, so can you check your batteries.

I only need to check my magazine once, when I fill it and as long as you don't fiddle with it they will always be there.

Sorry, I will take simple mechanics that can not randomly break (most are still working hundreds of years later) over electronics that are sensitive to dirt, moisture (steel sweats), shock, and vibration any day of the week. Maybe it's because I'm a gunsmith and have seen the abuse that a daily carried pistol takes but I would never depend on an electronic pistol. Even some of my range queen electronic triggers fail me and they are only stored in a safe and then brought to the range.

[jerseydevil]

Kampfer,you have a broomhandle Mauser?! Oh I hate you

I have more Mausers than Leathermans.  but I don't EDC them.
Another photo for Mauser lovers:
(Image removed from quote.)

   Forget the Mauser, I want the vz. 26!  Kuomintang uniforms too, neat.    My Mausers are all rifles - an 11mm Model 71/84, 7x57 Model 93 Spanish, and a Kar98k.

[captain spaulding]

Not for me.

KISS

I'm sure some of you know what that means.

[nate j]

Don't discredit that quickly, there are benefits that might outweigh the drawbacks at some point (After some testing and probably more development).

I must respectfully disagree.  The best firearms are simple, rugged, and reliable.  This will never be the first, no matter how much testing and development goes into it, which leaves its ability to achieve either of the other two in serious doubt.  I predict not much of a market for it, regardless of price.

[dmanuel]

No thanks, I take my Mauser (World's first successful semi-auto pistol) over that anyday.

Only if the Borchardt C-93 doesn't count

Borchardt C93- 1893
Mauser C96 - 1896

Still a fine and venerable pistol. Would love to add one of each into my own collection one day!

[jerseydevil]

No thanks, I take my Mauser (World's first successful semi-auto pistol) over that anyday.

Only if the Borchardt C-93 doesn't count

Borchardt C93- 1893
Mauser C96 - 1896

Still a fine and venerable pistol. Would love to add one of each into my own collection one day!

I'd say the Mauser was the first commercially successful automatic pistol.  Borchardt had the right idea, but the basic design was rather unwieldy until Georg Luger got his hands on it.  Incidentally, the first major armed force to adopt an automatic pistol was the Swiss Army, with the Ordonnanzpistole 00, the 7.65mm Parabellum in 1900.  That was four years before the Kaiserliche Marine adopted the same pistol, and eight years before the Imperial German Army adopted the 9mm version.  The Mauser's most famous user was probably Winston Churchill.  He used one at Omdurman and in the Boer War. 

[dmanuel]

No thanks, I take my Mauser (World's first successful semi-auto pistol) over that anyday.

Only if the Borchardt C-93 doesn't count

Borchardt C93- 1893
Mauser C96 - 1896

Still a fine and venerable pistol. Would love to add one of each into my own collection one day!

I'd say the Mauser was the first commercially successful automatic pistol.  Borchardt had the right idea, but the basic design was rather unwieldy until Georg Luger got his hands on it.

According to sales numbers and history the C-93 is still the first. It's constantly listed as the first commercially successful and consistently functioning semi-automatic to be produced.

http://books.google.com.ph/books?id=y1WjqnF31iwC&pg=PA22&lpg=PA22&dq=borchardt+c93+success&source=bl&ots=ZtoqMmavUN&sig=mAaU8QSTnTnLxhZ38_BJryb-2GA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=X0mFU8ObAYyNkwX13IBY&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=borchardt%20c93%20success&f=false

With the Schonberger-Laumann 1892 being the first commercially produced semi-automatic. It functioned most of the time, but not nearly as reliable as the next two offerings.

That being said though, it has never had anywhere near the commercial success of the Mauser. It is indeed a great pistol.

[ironraven]

Don't see anything new there. Just the same garbage tech that has been failing for 20 years.

The only reasons to EVER have electronics on a firearm are (a) electro-optical sights and illuminators, (b) it's a minigun or chaingun, or (c) it's a light cannon or grenade launcher and you have induction programmed shells that can air burst but have a nice mechanical firing circuit to.

[Lynn LeFey]

For those who may not be aware, the little Armatix is causing a smurf-storm in the U.S.

Because...

Well... there's this stupid law in New Jersey, that once ANY firearm is sold in the state with these kind of features (user identification), then a clock starts ticking, and after 3 years, ALL new firearms sold in the state must also have the technology.

And, as others have pointed out, the tech isn't exactly 'mature'. I'm not certain it ever will be. Worse, the Armatix is a .22, with the least recoil of any widely available round, so even if the CAN get it working for that particular pistol, it won't necessarily stand up to the shock of higher caliber rounds.

I think it's a neat idea, but not much more.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/05/02/smart_gun_sales_new_jersey_law_shoots_down_armatix_ip1.html

[abd1959]

No thanks. I will stick with my FN made High Power.

[Etherealicer]

Don't see anything new there. Just the same garbage tech that has been failing for 20 years.

And 20 years ago we didn't have smart phones. Failure is part of development, so what's your point.

The only reasons to EVER have electronics on a firearm are (a) electro-optical sights and illuminators, (b) it's a minigun or chaingun, or (c) it's a light cannon or grenade launcher and you have induction programmed shells that can air burst but have a nice mechanical firing circuit to.

Or maybe that a gun cannot be stolen that easily. I'm actually surprised that US-Americans don't see the benefit of this, as you seem to like house alarms over more secure locks.

Google police killed by their own gun

I have no idea how many of those could have been saved, maybe half, maybe a tenth, you get the point. This technology has its limitations, because you have to wear the sender at all the time, that however is not a limitation for a policeman.

Sure, technology can fail, but its more reliable than the mechanical parts. It can run out of battery, but a gun can also run out of bullets. If you rely on your gun, you check it before your shift (including the batteries).
I don't know the technology is ready for the streets yet (and you want to be as sure as possible).

Maybe it is even the wrong approach, but maybe it isn't. And saying no, has never brought progress. That is why I believe this product is important.

[Etherealicer]

For those who may not be aware, the little Armatix is causing a smurf-storm in the U.S.

Because...

Well... there's this stupid law in New Jersey, that once ANY firearm is sold in the state with these kind of features (user identification), then a clock starts ticking, and after 3 years, ALL new firearms sold in the state must also have the technology.

And, as others have pointed out, the tech isn't exactly 'mature'. I'm not certain it ever will be. Worse, the Armatix is a .22, with the least recoil of any widely available round, so even if the CAN get it working for that particular pistol, it won't necessarily stand up to the shock of higher caliber rounds.

I think it's a neat idea, but not much more.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/05/02/smart_gun_sales_new_jersey_law_shoots_down_armatix_ip1.html

I think California has a similar bill. However, this is politics and has nothing to do with the actual product.

As for the political part. The USA like Switzerland has too many unregistered firearms, so this seems like an approach doomed to fail.
A smart gun like this cannot reduce the number of gun related crimes, it can however reduce:
- gun accidents
- that your gun is used against yourself

[RT1969]

Not for me.

KISS

I'm sure some of you know what that means.

 

Too much smurf happening on my smartphone alone for me to ever want electronic disconnectors on something with live bullets!

[lister]

What about an electronic knife that blunts itself when it senses you are about to cut or stab a living animal? Imagine how much safer the street would be! 

[pfrsantos]

What about an electronic knife that blunts itself when it senses you are about to cut or stab a living animal? Imagine how much safer the street would be! 

+1
 

[captain spaulding]

Not for me.

KISS

I'm sure some of you know what that means.

 

Too much smurf happening on my smartphone alone for me to ever want electronic disconnectors on something with live bullets!

My thoughts exactly.

[nate j]

What about an electronic knife that blunts itself when it senses you are about to cut or stab a living animal? Imagine how much safer the street would be! 

You jest, but a folding knife or MT that would only deploy when (1) the owner is recognized, and (2) a pre-approved "target" is also recognized, would be the direct analogue of this gun.  If you're thinking that would be a great idea and you would buy one, then perhaps you would be interested in the Armatix as well.  If (like me) you are thinking that cost and reliability issues couldn't possibly be outweighed by whatever dubious benefits such technology might provide in these applications, then you (again, like me) will have no use for the Armatix or anything similar.

[Etherealicer]

What about an electronic knife that blunts itself when it senses you are about to cut or stab a living animal? Imagine how much safer the street would be! 

You jest, but a folding knife or MT that would only deploy when (1) the owner is recognized, and (2) a pre-approved "target" is also recognized, would be the direct analogue of this gun.  If you're thinking that would be a great idea and you would buy one, then perhaps you would be interested in the Armatix as well.  If (like me) you are thinking that cost and reliability issues couldn't possibly be outweighed by whatever dubious benefits such technology might provide in these applications, then you (again, like me) will have no use for the Armatix or anything similar.

So you think preventing a cop getting killed by his own weapon is dubious?

[Etherealicer]

The lesser of two evils

Sickle-cell disease
Sickle-cell disease is a lethal disease most common in Africa. Is Sickle-cell disease good or bad for humans? I mean its lethal, so it must be bad, right?
But on the other hand Sickle-cell disease can prevent Malaria, a far more vicious disease, so we could say that as long as Sickle-cell disease prevents more death than it causes its a "good disease".

A slightly less abstract example:
Gun for Self-Defense
Guns for Self-Defense kill innocent people (e.g. Yoshihiro Hattori) and therefore are bad (bear with me here, I know what Malcom X said). However, they can also protect you and your family from harm. So, like Sickle-cell disease as long as they prevent more death than they cause "Guns for Self Defense are good".

Smart Guns
Smart Technology makes a gun less reliable (more things that can go wrong) and are therefore bad. But Smart-Technology might reduce (its a developing technology and we have very little reliable statistics to it). Again, like Sickle-cell disease and like Guns for Self-Defense, if they prevent more death than they cause they are good.

I think we all agree that its to early to enforce this technology, but that is politics. Personally, I think at this stage its actually very impractical unless you carry your gun as part of your gear (policeman). Still, there is no reason to condemn smart-guns. Saying no to smart guns as an idea is like saying no to less gun-accidents, it simply makes no sense to me.

[dmanuel]

I like to think of it as saying no to something that introduces a lot more potential problems, the more parts you have the more likely you are to have a failure. And this idea that electronics are less likely to break than mechanical parts is a bit more than I can understand. Every week I work on (when I'm in the US) at least one firearm that is at least 75 years old and still functioning perfectly, yet I would be hard pressed to find a VCR that still works properly even though it has been stored inside a controlled environment without any controlled explosions happening inside of them.

The idea is to save lives, but I see way too many reasons why this could actually cost me my own life. Like say a hot robbery at 2 AM and I don't sleep with my watch attached, or my wife being the first one to the firearm but she can't pull the trigger, or a whole multitude of other reasons.