Leatherman weak points

[kwakster]

Because of my job as a repairman i see quite a lot of multitools go by.
With Leatherman it strikes me that most of the ones in need of an overhaul have the same problems over and over again.

Biggest problem i encounter are always the locking tabs.
When exerting pressure on one of the smaller items, all the force gets transferred onto 2 tiny metal pins which cannot handle this very well and shear off.
Although the tabs are quite easily replaced, i would like to see a more sturdy solution applied in which all the force transfers into the handle itself.
Cold Steel has something called the Tri-Ad Lock, which is basically a backlock with a twist, where all forces are transferred onto an extra metal pin which in turn transfers it into the frame again.

Second biggest problem are the pliers.
Most of the times only the tip on one beak breaks off, but i see also quite a lot of breakage occuring beneath the wire cutting part.
A little more hassle to replace the pliers, but i would like to see a kind of real toolsteel used for these, like CPM3V which has been passivated against rustforming.
This steel would also be a very good choice for the knives, as it has an edgeholding comparable to D2 and a toughness approaching S7 shock steel.
The stainless steel used now for the plierhead isn't capable of performing on tough jobs in the long run.

Third biggest problem is the tiny metal pin that helps to keep the plierhead seated when closed.
This pin bends and breaks easily, at which point the tool doesn't close easily anymore, you will have to guide the plierhead by hand.
My solution to this is as follows.
Just in front of the little pin is a rivet which is cut off short to make room for the plierhead.
If a longer rivet was used the plierhead could rest upon it and the weak metal pin could be left out.

What are your experiences ?

[I'm Still Bison]

 That's an excellent analysis and observation;you've obviously given this some thought.You're not the first to want some implements to be made from a different grade steel.

[WhichDawg]

my biggest problem is spotting rust. it does come off easy enough but I wonder if I left it what will happen.
I've been reading more and more about the pin issue and it's a concern.

my second issue is the plastic they put in some models, whether it's for lightness, cheaper cost or other I
worry about plastic in tools/parts over the long haul because in the past it becomes brittle and fragile.

thx for your experience and comments. I think no tool is perfect because their are cons and pros with
everyone but I still feel Leathermans are great tools (I still want them all!).

[Leatherman123]

I have broken a few locking tabs before as well..

[Smitty44]

Welcome to the forums kwakster,where is it that you work?That you see so all of those problems,and I agree with all the problems that you pointed out,we need to get you into an engineer job!!!

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Thanks for such an honest and thought provoking critique

I can understand LM's reluctance to adopt new steel's for the plier head, but the other fault's really should be addressed

[Leatherman123]

I completely agree with you, Mike.. But, why doesn't Victorinox fix the simple flaws on their SwissTools? By this I mean: square off the drivers, make the lock up solid ( like on Spirit), and make the philips driver out of harder steel! Or, why doesn't SOG have a chisel grind on their MT knives? They are a knife company after all, right? Or, why doesn't Gerber make longer screwdrivers? You get what I'm saying?

[max6166]

Yeah, why don't they?  I am sure there is a reason for how slow companies are to change and address these sorts of issues. I only have some uneducated guesses. I wonder what what their reasoning really is...

The SwissTool is an oddball though. You can see that Vic have been fiddling with the SwissTool plier heads every few years, but not with anything else as far as I know...

[Leatherman123]

They only other changes I know of is- that the wire stripper cut out is not as deep.. I may be wrong, but I remember Dunc posting about this..

[Mike D]

What I want to know Kwakster is do you repair multi"s like professionally?

I have two Swisstools that need fixed...

[jdailey4206966]

Yeah, why don't they?  I am sure there is a reason for how slow companies are to change and address these sorts of issues. I only have some uneducated guesses. I wonder what what their reasoning really is...

The SwissTool is an oddball though. You can see that Vic have been fiddling with the SwissTool plier heads every few years, but not with anything else as far as I know...

It's ANTICIPATION........meaning they will leave you wondering, "wow, will this be the "perfect" tool with everything squared, and longer tools, and just everything perfect with a guarantee never to break?"

Please let me know if you come across that tool.....

[ultimaonliner]

Life's sick comedy.

[kwakster]

What I want to know Kwakster is do you repair multi"s like professionally?

I have two Swisstools that need fixed...

Yes, you can say that.
Although i'm mainly a content editor, someone who writes productinfo and background information on websites, repairing mostly Leatherman multitools and Buck knives, as well as sharpening are part of my daily routine.
But i only work three days a week,

But sorry, the company i work for doesn't carry Victorinox, only Wenger.
I know that Victorinox owns Wenger, but where i live the two are strictly separated.

[AndyTiedye]

What I want to know Kwakster is do you repair multi"s like professionally?

I have two Swisstools that need fixed...

How did you manage to break them?   They seem really solid.

[J-sews]

Biggest problem i encounter are always the locking tabs.
When exerting pressure on one of the smaller items, all the force gets transferred onto 2 tiny metal pins which cannot handle this very well and shear off.

kwakster, which Leatherman model are you referring to?

On the Fuse, Blast, Core, Wave, Charge, Surge, etc, there are metal tabs on the lock bar which fit into slots. (circled) I would have thought this arrangement would take the load completely off the two pins??

[kwakster]

Biggest problem i encounter are always the locking tabs.
When exerting pressure on one of the smaller items, all the force gets transferred onto 2 tiny metal pins which cannot handle this very well and shear off.

kwakster, which Leatherman model are you referring to?

On the Fuse, Blast, Core, Wave, Charge, Surge, etc, there are metal tabs on the lock bar which fit into slots. (circled) I would have thought this arrangement would take the load completely off the two pins??

(Image removed from quote.)

I see this problem occuring on all models with locking tabs, but mostly on Wave's, Charges, and Blasts while we sell those models the most.
The lockbar that fits into the slots needs just a little room to function properly, meaning it hasn't got a supertight fit into it's slot.
And this is just enough to transfer the forces excerted mainly on the screwdrivers onto the small pins or hinges, which obviously cannot handle this stress very well.

[J-sews]

Very interesting. I would not have guessed this area was a weakness.

Third biggest problem is the tiny metal pin that helps to keep the plierhead seated when closed.
This pin bends and breaks easily, at which point the tool doesn't close easily anymore, you will have to guide the plierhead by hand.
My solution to this is as follows.
Just in front of the little pin is a rivet which is cut off short to make room for the plierhead.
If a longer rivet was used the plierhead could rest upon it and the weak metal pin could be left out.

...and on this point I'm assuming you refer to the pin circled below? It does indeed seem like a fragile part. (although I've never had one break)





How do you repair tools that come to you with this pin broken? 

[kwakster]

Very interesting. I would not have guessed this area was a weakness.

Third biggest problem is the tiny metal pin that helps to keep the plierhead seated when closed.
This pin bends and breaks easily, at which point the tool doesn't close easily anymore, you will have to guide the plierhead by hand.
My solution to this is as follows.
Just in front of the little pin is a rivet which is cut off short to make room for the plierhead.
If a longer rivet was used the plierhead could rest upon it and the weak metal pin could be left out.

...and on this point I'm assuming you refer to the pin circled below? It does indeed seem like a fragile part. (although I've never had one break)


(Image removed from quote.)


How do you repair tools that come to you with this pin broken? 

Yep, that is the pin i was talking about.
Most of the time it starts to bend outwards first, and breaks off when people try to bend it back.
When i get one of these back in shop i have to replace the whole leg, and build all the items back into it.

In your picture you can also see the rivet i was talking about, just right from the pin.
If Leatherman would just leave it longer, instead of cutting it short, it would be a whole lot stronger than that weak little pin.

[MultiMat]

Kwakster while we are asking  What tool do you use to remove LM's knurled fasteners ? And how do I get them  . Does it involve "Black ops" , 007 & a magic wand ? I can not bring myself to creating a set of spoony's customized sockets ( hammering the knurl impression into a cheap socket).   

[kwakster]

Kwakster while we are asking  What tool do you use to remove LM's knurled fasteners ? And how do I get them  . Does it involve "Black ops" , 007 & a magic wand ? I can not bring myself to creating a set of spoony's customized sockets ( hammering the knurl impression into a cheap socket).   

There are some flat pieces of steel with holes exactly forming the outline of specific knurled fasteners, and next to these i also have several specialized sockets to put on a screwdriver fitted with a square tip.
While i'm not familiar with all the right names for these kind of tools, i think you know what i mean,

I will try to make some pictures of these in a few days.
On the sockets are American brand names that i'm not familiar with, but maybe you can get them where you live.

[jdailey4206966]

Very interesting. I would not have guessed this area was a weakness.

Third biggest problem is the tiny metal pin that helps to keep the plierhead seated when closed.
This pin bends and breaks easily, at which point the tool doesn't close easily anymore, you will have to guide the plierhead by hand.
My solution to this is as follows.
Just in front of the little pin is a rivet which is cut off short to make room for the plierhead.
If a longer rivet was used the plierhead could rest upon it and the weak metal pin could be left out.

...and on this point I'm assuming you refer to the pin circled below? It does indeed seem like a fragile part. (although I've never had one break)


(Image removed from quote.)


How do you repair tools that come to you with this pin broken? 

Yep, that is the pin i was talking about.
Most of the time it starts to bend outwards first, and breaks off when people try to bend it back.
When i get one of these back in shop i have to replace the whole leg, and build all the items back into it.

In your picture you can also see the rivet i was talking about, just right from the pin.
If Leatherman would just leave it longer, instead of cutting it short, it would be a whole lot stronger than that weak little pin.

I don't know about weak??? Have you ever tried to cut one on those pins? I used to work at a place where we used the same type of metal pins and the only way to snap them was to use lineman pliers in a vice. It is a tough metal, but I suppose could give after some time, but it would have to be a long time. Also the pin inside for the plier head has never given me any problems. I have worked my Wave like a balisong before and never gave me any trouble, but I know that if anything should ever happen that LM will fix it under the 25 yr warranty

[MultiMat]

Kwakster while we are asking  What tool do you use to remove LM's knurled fasteners ? And how do I get them  . Does it involve "Black ops" , 007 & a magic wand ? I can not bring myself to creating a set of spoony's customized sockets ( hammering the knurl impression into a cheap socket).   

There are some flat pieces of steel with holes exactly forming the outline of specific knurled fasteners, and next to these i also have several specialized sockets to put on a screwdriver fitted with a square tip.
While i'm not familiar with all the right names for these kind of tools, i think you know what i mean,

I will try to make some pictures of these in a few days.
On the sockets are American brand names that i'm not familiar with, but maybe you can get them where you live.

I live in Australia so it might be a stretch but the internet has made the world so well connected. Photos  & names of those special tools    Please 

[jdailey4206966]

Kwakster while we are asking  What tool do you use to remove LM's knurled fasteners ? And how do I get them  . Does it involve "Black ops" , 007 & a magic wand ? I can not bring myself to creating a set of spoony's customized sockets ( hammering the knurl impression into a cheap socket).   

There are some flat pieces of steel with holes exactly forming the outline of specific knurled fasteners, and next to these i also have several specialized sockets to put on a screwdriver fitted with a square tip.
While i'm not familiar with all the right names for these kind of tools, i think you know what i mean,

I will try to make some pictures of these in a few days.
On the sockets are American brand names that i'm not familiar with, but maybe you can get them where you live.

I live in Australia so it might be a stretch but the internet has made the world so well connected. Photos  & names of those special tools    Please 

One in the pictures shown above is the Leatherman Wave

[Benner]

Kwakster while we are asking  What tool do you use to remove LM's knurled fasteners ? And how do I get them  . Does it involve "Black ops" , 007 & a magic wand ? I can not bring myself to creating a set of spoony's customized sockets ( hammering the knurl impression into a cheap socket).   

There are some flat pieces of steel with holes exactly forming the outline of specific knurled fasteners, and next to these i also have several specialized sockets to put on a screwdriver fitted with a square tip.
While i'm not familiar with all the right names for these kind of tools, i think you know what i mean,

I will try to make some pictures of these in a few days.
On the sockets are American brand names that i'm not familiar with, but maybe you can get them where you live.

I live in Australia so it might be a stretch but the internet has made the world so well connected. Photos  & names of those special tools    Please 

One in the pictures shown above is the Leatherman Wave

That's not what he meant. 

He's talking about the tools to remove the knurled screws.

[jdailey4206966]

Ah hell, I feel like a ******* idiot!!!! lol

[Benner]

Ah hell, I feel like a ******* idiot!!!! lol

That's ok, I feel like that most of the time too. 

[Leatherman123]

Don't we all?

[Hoghead]

Don't we all?

No! 

[Mike D]

What I want to know Kwakster is do you repair multi"s like professionally?

I have two Swisstools that need fixed...

How did you manage to break them?   They seem really solid.

Neither of them are really broken.

The first one an X has a bunk plier head that the pivot is so loose on that the wire cutters make serious contact with each other when closing. Yes I know I can send it in for warranty work just haven't done it yet.

The second is my RS, my helper cut a live extension cord with and almost burned a hole in the blade at the same time. I polished up the blade and resharpened it and its fine really. But there is something wrong with the pivot on the blade and the crate opener next to it now. They are both much harder to get out, and they both clump together when trying to open either.

[Leatherman123]

Send them in for warranty. You will get them back within a week or two!