Multitool snobbery

[Syncop8r]

I think this is most appropriate in the Leatherman forum....

Lately there has been some very scathing remarks on new products (eg Signal, Tread). Criticism is warranted in many cases and that's what we like to talk about here, whether a tool is good or has shortcomings.
However, some of the comments here insinuate that people would be stupid to buy a certain tool, yet other members buy said tool or receive it as a gift. If you don't like a tool, that's fine, and I think it's fine to say so because of reason x and reason y, but I don't think making other members feel uncomfortable for owning one is cool. This forum is meant to be welcoming and inclusive.

[rishardh]

I plan to buy both the Signal and Tread someday. There I said it   

To ridicule someone for buying a something you did not like is wrong. But making fun of the product itself is ok in my book. If you like it so much you should defend it, not be ashamed.

[Kampfer]

I agree.

[SteveC]

 

[rdub934]

Well said. That Signal thread is pretty rough, even early on. We can't forget that people have different tastes.

But, FWIW, every new tool from LM since I've been a member at MTO has garnered some pretty strong criticism even(or especially) prior to releasing: Wingman/Sidekick, OHT, Rebar, Leap, Raptor, Juice redesign, Tread, Signal, Rev, Juice and Skeletool SX, and virtually ALL of the OPMTs.

LM isn't alone, however, as Gerber and SOG both get the same treatment. Lesser extent, I think, because of lower expectations or fewer releases from year to year.

[Syncop8r]

But, FWIW, every new tool from LM since I've been a member at MTO has garnered some pretty strong criticism even(or especially) prior to releasing: Wingman/Sidekick, OHT, Rebar, Leap, Raptor, Juice redesign, Tread, Signal, Rev, Juice and Skeletool SX, and virtually ALL of the OPMTs.

Surprised these have been criticsed - Wingman/Sidekick, OHT, Rebar. Almost everything has it's weak points but still popular tools for other reasons.

Leatherman may look at all the negative feedback on here but then go "hey, these are selling good so we must be doing something right". Anyway, this thread isn't about what LM are or aren't doing "right", it's about how we treat other members.

[AimlessWanderer]

I hope I haven't crossed that line, and if I have it was certainly not my intention. Any scathing views I make on any tool by any manufacturer, are angled towards that specific product or the manufacturers approach in some way. I fully appreciate that we all have different needs, and in a recent thread where a newcomer asked for advice, I recommended a couple of tools which do not work for me at all, but may (depending on certain circumstances) be an excellent choice for the person enquiring.

I do try not to mock someone who has different tastes from me, unless of course I'm taking the piss out of Kam for carrying the Skeletool for example   If someone finds the likes of the Signal or the Tread enriches their lives through use or merely ownership of the item, then I do not wish to take that pleasure from them, even if I do continue to berate and mock the tool, the marketing, or other aspects of the matter at hand.

I do however sometimes visit the forum and air views after a libation or three, or when my head is filled with other matters, whereby I may be a little less tactful or fail to be as considerate to others as I normally would. If I have crossed that line and have made anyone feel uncomfortable for their choice of tool or for cherishing a gift, then I apologise wholeheartedly, and encourage them not to take personally any less than positive comments I may make of that tool in future 

I do have strong opinions about certain tools, but I do also hold strong to the view that this place is as much about the people as it is about what they use, carry or even collect. I always aim to be respectful of my fellow members, even if I do occasionally fail in those aims, and I too get my feathers ruffled when others are (in my eyes) being disrespectful or failing to accept we don't all come from the same mould.

Good thread mate
 

[Syncop8r]

I don't think you have crossed that line - although you are very critical of some tools you explain your reasons and don't make it personal.

...
 encourage them not to take personally any less than positive comments I may make of that tool in future

I guess that's a part of it too.

[AimlessWanderer]

Well said. That Signal thread is pretty rough, even early on. We can't forget that people have different tastes.

But, FWIW, every new tool from LM since I've been a member at MTO has garnered some pretty strong criticism even(or especially) prior to releasing: Wingman/Sidekick, OHT, Rebar, Leap, Raptor, Juice redesign, Tread, Signal, Rev, Juice and Skeletool SX, and virtually ALL of the OPMTs.

LM isn't alone, however, as Gerber and SOG both get the same treatment. Lesser extent, I think, because of lower expectations or fewer releases from year to year.

I think they also get a bit more criticism because of the price points, which they are always going to be at a bit of a disadvantage with, unless the quality of design and products are at least twice as good as the competition, to justify the cost differences. They sometimes also open themselves up to mockery with such as the marketting tag line for the OHT. If they're going to set themselves up as the number one manufacturer, they need to come through on the promise.

Conversely, Gerber gets flak for the BG line, and sometimes it's hard for people too see past that and either criticise or praise the individual tool. It galls me a little when it descends into a Bear Bashing exercise, when I want to hear if the tool does the job or fails miserably. Likewise, I like to hear the mixed reviews people might give on whether the Spirit works for them or why it fails, but couldn't give two hoots about whether it sits flat on a table or not.

We're all different though, and these things that aren't issues for me, ARE issues for other people whether I like it or not. Those people are entitled to feel happy or disgruntled with their purchases too. Another example of where we need to respect the views of others I suppose

[firiki]

Good thread

I should be sleeping already so I’ll just say that there’s an important difference between

-what we think we want to say
-what we think we’re saying
-what we actually say
-what others think they want to hear
-what others think they hear
-what they actually hear

but it’s the only way there is so it’s probably better to think well before responding to what people say because words can hurt and stir emotions and expressing your self can be tricky and time-consuming, especially in written speech, even more so if it is done in a language other than your own.

Respectfully thankful for MT.O, the loveliest place on the ‘net that I know of,

firiki

[NKlamerus]

Great thread. Glad it's out on the air.

Consider this an MTO Pessimism Intervention.

And i, also plan on buying a Tread and Signal.

But I'll wait for used ones lol

[Kampfer]

Skeletool only for a month?

If involves carrying a Skele for any longer than it takes to throw it in the garbage, I'm out!

That really hurt my feeling. 

[derekmac]

Being an off roader, I see this all the time. We have a Jeep club here, and some of the guys won't wheel with anything but a Jeep. They'll also knock anything else, and diss and make fun of other rigs with the owners around.

I'm part of a club that's open to any make. We'll take the piss out of each other, but it's all in good fun.

I don't think anyone should be called stupid for buying something. We all have different likes and tastes.

The Tread does suck though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Aloha]

I understand not wanting to spend one's own money on said tools however how many would refuse them as gifts?


I like the OHT, Sidekick/Wingman, big fan of OPMTs also 

[Harpo]

A wise old gentleman once told me that opinions are like bum-holes.
Everyone has one, but no-one wants to hear yours.

I myself don't mind hearing them..... opinions that is.

[Megan]

The key is to ensure that you review the tools, make comments on the tools- and not those who buy them.

There are many different types of tool users out there. And something may simply not have been designed for your needs, but for another's.

From an MTO stand point.
We always want your honest feedback on tools. Even if you didn't like a tool, we would like it if you would submit the reviews to us for the site. We will always accept and post honest feedback.

Never look down on another because they couldn't afford a more expensive tool- or because they wanted to try out a tool you don't like or respect.

[comis]

I think this is most appropriate in the Leatherman forum....

Lately there has been some very scathing remarks on new products (eg Signal, Tread). Criticism is warranted in many cases and that's what we like to talk about here, whether a tool is good or has shortcomings.
However, some of the comments here insinuate that people would be stupid to buy a certain tool, yet other members buy said tool or receive it as a gift. If you don't like a tool, that's fine, and I think it's fine to say so because of reason x and reason y, but I don't think making other members feel uncomfortable for owning one is cool. This forum is meant to be welcoming and inclusive.

The key is to ensure that you review the tools, make comments on the tools- and not those who buy them.

There are many different types of tool users out there. And something may simply not have been designed for your needs, but for another's.

From an MTO stand point.
We always want your honest feedback on tools. Even if you didn't like a tool, we would like it if you would submit the reviews to us for the site. We will always accept and post honest feedback.

Never look down on another because they couldn't afford a more expensive tool- or because they wanted to try out a tool you don't like or respect.

Thank you for this thread, and a good reminder.  I think this is a good thread at an appropriate time.  Maybe we are a tight community and sometimes do get carry away a little in our casual discussion, but I am sure most folks here means no harm and certainly no disrespect to any present and future owners of a less favorable tool.

I remembered participating early on in the Signal thread, and was rather excited to see a new tool catered towards outdoor/survival needs.  However, I wasn't entirely too thrilled about the platform they have chosen, but went ahead to get one despite many negative remarks it has received.  On a more positive and constructive thought, I think I should go ahead and write a review on MT.O  about my views on Signal.

[Mextreme]

Good call.
Choice of tool is often very personal and made with a lot of considerations.
Especially EDC choice is very close connected to who you are.
A little common sense and courtesy goes a long way.
A point can be made without making ridicule or belittle.

[sawman]

I just want to clarify that my negative comments toward Leatherman in no way reflect its buyers or anyone on this forum.

*I* OWN and USE several Leathermans. I just want to see them try harder and maybe lower their insane prices.

[raistlin65]

Also probably helps to remember that for many on MTO, it's also not about practicality and functionality, but collecting and trying new things. So I think the Tread seems a bit impractical, I'm guessing uncomfortable to wear (compared to a nice watch bracelet), and definitely seems overpriced at or near full MSRP . . .

. . .but totally a cool thing to own from a collector's stand point! A Tread would be awesome to own! It's always cool to collect something you don't have

So when one criticizes the tool, one can still congratulate ownership 

[Megan]

I think this is most appropriate in the Leatherman forum....

Lately there has been some very scathing remarks on new products (eg Signal, Tread). Criticism is warranted in many cases and that's what we like to talk about here, whether a tool is good or has shortcomings.
However, some of the comments here insinuate that people would be stupid to buy a certain tool, yet other members buy said tool or receive it as a gift. If you don't like a tool, that's fine, and I think it's fine to say so because of reason x and reason y, but I don't think making other members feel uncomfortable for owning one is cool. This forum is meant to be welcoming and inclusive.

The key is to ensure that you review the tools, make comments on the tools- and not those who buy them.

There are many different types of tool users out there. And something may simply not have been designed for your needs, but for another's.

From an MTO stand point.
We always want your honest feedback on tools. Even if you didn't like a tool, we would like it if you would submit the reviews to us for the site. We will always accept and post honest feedback.

Never look down on another because they couldn't afford a more expensive tool- or because they wanted to try out a tool you don't like or respect.

Thank you for this thread, and a good reminder.  I think this is a good thread at an appropriate time.  Maybe we are a tight community and sometimes do get carry away a little in our casual discussion, but I am sure most folks here means no harm and certainly no disrespect to any present and future owners of a less favorable tool.

I remembered participating early on in the Signal thread, and was rather excited to see a new tool catered towards outdoor/survival needs.  However, I wasn't entirely too thrilled about the platform they have chosen, but went ahead to get one despite many negative remarks it has received.  On a more positive and constructive thought, I think I should go ahead and write a review on MT.O  about my views on Signal.

Would you submit it for the site? We would love a full review on the Signal!

[babola]

I don't believe anyone on this forum belongs to a 'multitool snobbery' group nor he/she should be labeled as such. There are certainly some members and fans who are passionate and little more on emotional side when it comes to products produced by some of their popular multitool makers, especially Leatherman.

LM has been on a receiving end from both sides - good and bad, recently, for a reason. Kudos is given when it's due, but it applies the other way, too. This is THE multitool forum, and if it doesn't get discussed, dissected and criticized here, it won't  anywhere else. Here is where rubber hits the road so to speak and yes, we are some of the most critical and knowledgeable bunch out there in the big wide MT world.

Enjoy your tools and don't be afraid to air your opinion and feelings here, but do it in courteous and respectable way toward others, of course. 

[NetsNJ]

Admittedly, I'm a newbie, but I've never found any members of MTO to be anything less than friendly and courteous.  It is a wonderful community.  Just my $.02.   

[ctstannard]

I too am fairly new here and I have to commend the community because I find it to be a very friendly and helpful place. Sure there will always be someone who causes a stir now and again but for the most part this is a very enjoyable forum.

I have been a part of some forums where immediate hostility is the norm and they are not fun to be a part of. When you find yourself having to proof read your post 100 times for fear of being berated or attacked for your views it does not make for a fun place to be a part of but I have never felt that way here.

Keep up the good work!

[anon]

I'm pretty snobbish and wouldn't consider using a lot of tools or gear but when I talk to other people I see using cheap stuff they seem happy with it. Sometimes the tool you need is the one you have or can afford.

[Zed]

No snobbery here,just great genuine folk  i love all mt's and sak's, some more than others but all got there good and bad points 

[ToolJoe]

I think every person is entitled to their opinions and you don't like to like every mt out there. There is something out there for everybody  .

[leatherman-shop.de]

Admittedly, I'm a newbie, but I've never found any members of MTO to be anything less than friendly and courteous.  It is a wonderful community.  Just my $.02.

I agree 100%

[zoidberg]

I think this is most appropriate in the Leatherman forum....

Lately there has been some very scathing remarks on new products (eg Signal, Tread). Criticism is warranted in many cases and that's what we like to talk about here, whether a tool is good or has shortcomings.
However, some of the comments here insinuate that people would be stupid to buy a certain tool, yet other members buy said tool or receive it as a gift. If you don't like a tool, that's fine, and I think it's fine to say so because of reason x and reason y, but I don't think making other members feel uncomfortable for owning one is cool. This forum is meant to be welcoming and inclusive.

Sorry I laughed at your Skeletool CX. 

[Syncop8r]

Sorry I laughed at your Skeletool CX. 

I don't recall you laughing, more like wrestling with something in your mind.