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Police Need Multi Tool Training 6570

Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 13,572
Re: Police Need Multi Tool Training
« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2016, 07:41:17 AM »
Are you messing with us?

I may be misunderstood now and then, because English is not my own language. So sometimes I might choose a wrong word. That may sound funny. But I try to learn from you guys.

Ok I understand  :tu:.  Not that I need to understand or that it's important for me to understand.  I can be slow at times  :whistle:.

I have several friends who are LEO and have never heard of these concerns.  This is not to say these concerns aren't present.  I'm sure I don't hear about many things LEOs deal with from friends. 

I will say that your enthusiasm is great.  I'll also say that your concern toward LEO does appear genuine so again RESPECT  :salute:.

Thank you for not taking offense and none was intended. 

Esse Quam Videri
Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 20,351
Re: Police Need Multi Tool Training
« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2016, 03:20:32 PM »
Why not tell us your reason for such interest in this subject  ?
No Life Club Posts: 2,795 Still has a SOGgy feeling

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Re: Police Need Multi Tool Training
« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2016, 04:25:57 AM »
It seems to me that multitool training is like learning how to pee in the dark.  You can tell them why it is a useful emergency skill (think of the blackouts or when you just can't find the light switch).  But it is probably not the sort of thing that needs to be trained, because you are either interested and will work it out or you won't care and won't learn.



Just another weirdo with a beard :B:

Knight of the SOSAK and Defender of the sacred nail file
Full Member Posts: 177
Re: Police Need Multi Tool Training
« Reply #33 on: May 11, 2016, 05:13:16 AM »
multitool training is (...) probably not the sort of thing that needs to be trained, because you are either interested and will work it out or you won't care and won't learn.

World-wide large companies spend a fair amount of their budget on advertisement, with help of advertisement-experts. This is done because on average it is possible to effectively influence opinions and behavor of people, with the proper expertise.

These advertisement techniques can also be applied to moral issues, or a responsible and safe lifestyle, eg via edutainment.

The same persuasive expertise can probably be applied in adapted form in persuasive multitool-, disaster- and rescue-training for police officers.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 05:26:51 AM by Rico-2 »
No Life Club Posts: 2,795 Still has a SOGgy feeling

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Re: Police Need Multi Tool Training
« Reply #34 on: May 11, 2016, 05:37:19 AM »
multitool training is (...) probably not the sort of thing that needs to be trained, because you are either interested and will work it out or you won't care and won't learn.

World-wide large companies spend a fair amount of their budget on advertisement, with help of advertisement-experts. This is done because on average it is possible to effectively influence opinions and behavor of people, with the proper expertise.

These advertisement techniques can also be applied to moral issues, or a responsible and safe lifestyle, eg via edutainment.

The same persuasive expertise can probably be applied in adapted form in persuasive multitool-, disaster- and rescue-training for police officers.

Last time I watched edutainment all I learned was that postal inspectors are the boringest of all law enforcement.  There is a reason that PSAs are generally laughed at.

Also it seems like what you really want is survival training.

All joking aside I do remember learning knife safety and sharpening as part of church as a kid.



Just another weirdo with a beard :B:

Knight of the SOSAK and Defender of the sacred nail file
Head Turd Polisher Administrator He who has the most nuts, wins! Posts: 57,805 Optimum instrumentum est inter aures
Re: Police Need Multi Tool Training
« Reply #35 on: May 11, 2016, 04:03:35 PM »
After giving this more thought, I can agree with the original post.  I think that police could do with a bit of multitool training.  Over the years, I have seen other people use multitools in ways I had not thought of and I have expanded my abilities to use them as a result.  One person can't be expected to think of everything.

For example, I usually used the pliers as, well, pliers, however one day I saw a guy using the plier tips on a Charge to remove the retention nut on an angle grinder.



I think that many of us could probably use a bit of training to be honest- you never know what something is capable of until you see how someone else is using it. 

Of course, if training was to be done, this raises two other problems.  Who would fund it, and who would teach it?  Police forces (or any organization really) don't like to spend money on things that aren't seen as being absolutely essential, and how would you determine who is qualified to teach a multitool course?  I can think of a few- maybe Tim Leatherman or Les Stroud?  I mean Les seems interested in doing anything for a dollar these days (see his Camillus stuff  ::)) so he might be interested, but who else would have any qualifications to to be a certified folding plier tool instructor?

Def

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Full Member Posts: 177
Re: Police Need Multi Tool Training
« Reply #36 on: May 11, 2016, 04:11:04 PM »
Of course, if training was to be done, this raises two other problems.  Who would fund it, and who would teach it?  Police forces (or any organization really) don't like to spend money on things that aren't seen as being absolutely essential, and how would you determine who is qualified to teach a multitool course?  I can think of a few- maybe Tim Leatherman or Les Stroud?  I mean Les seems interested in doing anything for a dollar these days (see his Camillus stuff  ::)) so he might be interested, but who else would have any qualifications to to be a certified folding plier tool instructor?

Def
Possibly specialists from FEMA and Special Forces.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 04:14:23 PM by Rico-2 »
Global Moderator Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 10,526 Join us! Embrace the Flicky Faith!
Re: Police Need Multi Tool Training
« Reply #37 on: May 11, 2016, 07:00:55 PM »
What's Bear Grylls up to nowadays? :D

I'm pretty sure that in the US, it's illegal for military forces to provide training to police forces. At least, it used to be. Dunno about currently.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 07:03:26 PM by jerseydevil »

There's no such thing as "Too pretty to carry".  There's only "Too pretty NOT to carry"...... >:D
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 11,687 Oxygen and magnesium toghether?! OMg!
Re: Police Need Multi Tool Training
« Reply #38 on: May 11, 2016, 07:40:09 PM »
What's Bear Grylls up to nowadays? :D

I'm pretty sure that in the US, it's illegal for military forces to provide training to police forces. At least, it used to be. Dunno about currently.

Yes, we don't want them LEOs to know how to use those tactics to... huh... fight crime and protect people?!...

 :facepalm:

________________________________
It is just a matter of time before they add the word “Syndrome” after my last name.

I don't have OCD, I have OCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ.

Eff the ineffable, scrut the inscrutable.

IYCRTYSWTMTFOT
Global Moderator Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 10,526 Join us! Embrace the Flicky Faith!
Re: Police Need Multi Tool Training
« Reply #39 on: May 11, 2016, 08:21:01 PM »
I stand corrected, I looked it up and my earlier post was incorrect.  I thought that the Posse Comitatus Act prevented training of LEO's by the military. It doesn't.

Still, could imagine Bear's training? "Here's the scenario - you're on patrol and thirsty, but the local convienance store closed 15 minutes ago. So, what you do is....." :ahhh

There's no such thing as "Too pretty to carry".  There's only "Too pretty NOT to carry"...... >:D
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 11,687 Oxygen and magnesium toghether?! OMg!
Re: Police Need Multi Tool Training
« Reply #40 on: May 11, 2016, 08:22:06 PM »
I stand corrected, I looked it up and my earlier post was incorrect.  I thought that the Posse Comitatus Act prevented training of LEO's by the military. It doesn't.

Still, could imagine Bear's training? "Here's the scenario - you're on patrol and thirsty, but the local convienance store closed 15 minutes ago. So, what you do is....." :ahhh

FTFY...
 :whistle:

________________________________
It is just a matter of time before they add the word “Syndrome” after my last name.

I don't have OCD, I have OCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ.

Eff the ineffable, scrut the inscrutable.

IYCRTYSWTMTFOT
No Life Club Posts: 2,795 Still has a SOGgy feeling

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Re: Police Need Multi Tool Training
« Reply #41 on: May 12, 2016, 12:41:16 AM »
I stand corrected, I looked it up and my earlier post was incorrect.  I thought that the Posse Comitatus Act prevented training of LEO's by the military. It doesn't.

Still, could imagine Bear's training? "Here's the scenario - you're on patrol and thirsty, but the local convienance store closed 15 minutes ago. So, what you do is....." :ahhh

 :rofl:

We must get the great universities (Oxford, Havard and Hull) to develop programs in multitool studies.  I suggest situating thes important programs in the women studies department, to compliment the growing importance of the study of masculinity.  Who amongst us could be the first to become a PhD in Mulitools and of coruse how many papers and books will have to be written over the question is a SAK a MT?




Just another weirdo with a beard :B:

Knight of the SOSAK and Defender of the sacred nail file
Full Member Posts: 177
Re: Police Need Multi Tool Training
« Reply #42 on: May 14, 2016, 11:05:23 PM »
Many (experienced) multitool-forum members have wounded themselves badly whith their mult-tool. See the topics on that underneath.

Why should police officers not be informed about these risks? And why should they not be trained in the necessary preventive measures and skills? Officers have to use their multi-tools in stressful and chaotic situations, when seconds count.

http://forum.multitool.or...ex.php/topic,66258.0.html

http://forum.multitool.or.../topic,66259.new.html#new

http://forum.multitool.or...ex.php/topic,52801.0.html
« Last Edit: May 14, 2016, 11:10:06 PM by Rico-2 »
No Life Club Posts: 2,795 Still has a SOGgy feeling

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Re: Police Need Multi Tool Training
« Reply #43 on: May 15, 2016, 12:36:53 AM »
Many (experienced) multitool-forum members have wounded themselves badly whith their mult-tool. See the topics on that underneath.

Why should police officers not be informed about these risks? And why should they not be trained in the necessary preventive measures and skills? Officers have to use their multi-tools in stressful and chaotic situations, when seconds count.

http://forum.multitool.or...ex.php/topic,66258.0.html

http://forum.multitool.or.../topic,66259.new.html#new

http://forum.multitool.or...ex.php/topic,52801.0.html

Do you really think that this is a good way to endear yourself to us?

But more importantly you seem to assume that people are completely tool illiterate if you use a kitchen knife and a pair of pliers chances are you know enough to not hurt yourself.



Just another weirdo with a beard :B:

Knight of the SOSAK and Defender of the sacred nail file
No Life Club Posts: 2,540 American Clandestine Materials Executive (ACME)
Re: Police Need Multi Tool Training
« Reply #44 on: May 17, 2016, 05:38:25 AM »
I may be misunderstood now and then, because English is not my own language. So sometimes I might choose a wrong word. That may sound funny. But I try to learn from you guys.

Lets stop beating around the bush, what exactly are you trying to ask for help with? What is your end goal? You've made a nice sales pitch for one of the most overpriced tools leatherman makes and then it almost seen as if you were retracting it, then posted some self help videos.

World-wide large companies spend a fair amount of their budget on advertisement, with help of advertisement-experts.

Are you trying to sell law enforcement equipment? Training?

Because honestly, any cop so dumb he needs fancy training on how to use a multitool past maybe 10 minutes of "This is your multitool, these are the tools in it" is probably too dumb to be a cop in the first place. Where are you that your cops need to be taught how to use a screwdriver?

Quote
Some female officers have not enough technical and survival skills I think.

Really, dude? Really? We do kinda frown on sexist comments.

Quote
Many (experienced) multitool-forum members have wounded themselves badly whith their mult-tool

Your cops have to be told "hey, dummy, it's a knife, its sharp"? Anyone tells me he uses a knife regularly and has never cut himself is lieing, one way or the other. It happens, just like working in a kitchen and getting burned. Live by the blade, bleed by the blade. Do you normally assume everyone is an utter incompetent? If so, given the direction of your posts, I again have to ask, just how stupid do you think cops are?

Everyone but Rico, sorry, but this guy smells fishy. Rico, your posts raise too many questions that you get badly evasive about which only raises more questions. Language barriers aren't a problem, but honesty barriers put a lot of us on guard. A little bit of openness would go a long way.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 05:54:26 AM by ironraven »

"Even if it is only the handful of people I meet on the street, or in my home, I can still protect them with this one sword" Kenshin Himura

Patriotism is a lively sense of collective responsibility, Nationalism is a silly cock crowing on it's own dunghill.
Global Moderator Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 10,526 Join us! Embrace the Flicky Faith!
Re: Police Need Multi Tool Training
« Reply #45 on: May 17, 2016, 05:52:28 AM »
I agree with that last bit especially. This is a forum that includes women, who know and use their multis. Please refrain from comments like that.

There's no such thing as "Too pretty to carry".  There's only "Too pretty NOT to carry"...... >:D
Full Member Posts: 177
Re: Police Need Multi Tool Training
« Reply #46 on: May 17, 2016, 06:27:47 AM »
This is a forum that includes women, who know and use their multis. Please refrain from comments like that.

I apologize, and will refrain from such comments. I definitely didn't mean to be rude or demeaning. I always try to be respectful, certainly towards women. But my skill in the English language is limited. So I may be misunderstood in my attitude and intention.
Full Member Posts: 177
Re: Police Need Multi Tool Training
« Reply #47 on: May 17, 2016, 06:42:24 AM »
You've made a nice sales pitch for one of the most overpriced tools leatherman makes.

I have been critical about Leatherman tools and other expensive brands, and have started a topic about which cheaper brands are good. I have also expressed scepticism about the future of the leading multi-tool-brands in a special topic. I am not paid by manufacturers, directly or indirectly. 

Are you trying to sell law enforcement equipment? Training?

No.
OCD Squad Leader Global Moderator Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 10,405
Re: Police Need Multi Tool Training
« Reply #48 on: May 17, 2016, 09:56:18 AM »
Are you trying to sell law enforcement equipment? Training?
I think he is trying to sell protective gear... :D

Emergency Kit: Ovo Sport, chocolate, cheese, crispbread and a coin
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 5,934 Cats have pocket knives of their own
Re: Police Need Multi Tool Training
« Reply #49 on: May 17, 2016, 10:47:33 AM »
In any case, I think the OP is putting way too much faith in multi-tools.

Omnia vincit amor. Vae victis.
Full Member Posts: 205
Re: Police Need Multi Tool Training
« Reply #50 on: May 17, 2016, 11:46:40 AM »


World-wide large companies spend a fair amount of their budget on advertisement, with help of advertisement-experts. This is done because on average it is possible to effectively influence opinions and behavor of people, with the proper expertise.

These advertisement techniques can also be applied to moral issues, or a responsible and safe lifestyle, eg via edutainment.

[/quote]

These companies are in the business of creating products that sell. While a nice idea I can't see them spending one dime on something that isn't going to be profitable. Like it or not, that's business.

"Never pick a fight with an old man. If he's too old to fight, he'll just kill you."
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 16,104 Little to the right...
Re: Police Need Multi Tool Training
« Reply #51 on: May 17, 2016, 12:30:34 PM »
I wish Stew was around.  I'd love to see his response to this.  :D

Full Member Posts: 177
Re: Police Need Multi Tool Training
« Reply #52 on: May 17, 2016, 12:32:04 PM »
These companies are in the business of creating products that sell. While a nice idea I can't see them spending one dime on something that isn't going to be profitable. Like it or not, that's business.
Such can be funded by governments, NGO's, non-profit-foundations, idealistic individuals, etc.
Full Member Posts: 177
Re: Police Need Multi Tool Training
« Reply #53 on: May 17, 2016, 12:34:38 PM »
Are you trying to sell law enforcement equipment? Training?
I think he is trying to sell protective gear... :D
I have no commercial interest in my forum-posts.
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 11,687 Oxygen and magnesium toghether?! OMg!
Re: Police Need Multi Tool Training
« Reply #54 on: May 17, 2016, 12:48:50 PM »
C'mon, folks!

Show content



________________________________
It is just a matter of time before they add the word “Syndrome” after my last name.

I don't have OCD, I have OCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ.

Eff the ineffable, scrut the inscrutable.

IYCRTYSWTMTFOT
No Life Club Posts: 2,795 Still has a SOGgy feeling

yud us

****** *
Re: Police Need Multi Tool Training
« Reply #55 on: May 17, 2016, 03:34:28 PM »
Are you trying to sell law enforcement equipment? Training?
I think he is trying to sell protective gear... :D
Naw I am telling you North Korean spy :D

Show content
See this person is not a MT user or LE.  So therefore either they are trying to sell something in violation of forum rules, which has been denied, or a government official assigned the job of equipping the police with MTs. 

Now here's the thing if they was from a country like US, UK, etc. they would probably just say hi I am from Canada and am out of my depth.  So, why hide? Because clearly they are from an internationally unpopular country and as was pointed out this country has a problem with small Asians and an extra ounce is every thing.  So I give you the people republic of malnourished Asians North Korea. :D



Just another weirdo with a beard :B:

Knight of the SOSAK and Defender of the sacred nail file
No Life Club Posts: 2,795 Still has a SOGgy feeling

yud us

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Re: Police Need Multi Tool Training
« Reply #56 on: May 17, 2016, 03:35:37 PM »
In any case, I think the OP is putting way too much faith in multi-tools.

+145,948,374,298.8



Just another weirdo with a beard :B:

Knight of the SOSAK and Defender of the sacred nail file
No Life Club Posts: 3,717
Re: Police Need Multi Tool Training
« Reply #57 on: May 18, 2016, 11:58:25 PM »
Alright, let's take it at face value and get our kicks out of this -


So you've got 1 hour to teach someone how to use a multi. It seems legit enough. I've spent days in conferences and such learning more useless stuff at the behest of my employer, so a lesson on a handtool is plausible enough.


Not withstanding set up, the training area, any props, multis for all the kids in the classroom, etc etc - in an hour, what top issues would you teach? (also notwithstanding that the government probably would manage to make the whole hour about safely operating a liner lock, because that's what governments do)

Def mentioned the lock nut on grinders - a niche item I'll admit, but the supplied "key" is easy enough to misplace, and if I was teaching a lesson on angle grinders, and had a multi on my belt, I may very well mention to the class you can get it off with your Leatherman, I probably wouldn't bring an angle grinder to my multi lesson just to prove it though.


To summarise - 1 Hour of Top Tips for Multis, don't bother including anything mentioned on the instructional pamphlet (I don't have one handy, but it probably includes a caution that knives are sharp)
Full Member Posts: 119
Re: Police Need Multi Tool Training
« Reply #58 on: May 19, 2016, 03:41:02 AM »
The motivation is self serving.  End of story.

Most people don't mind if you have an idea that could make money or achieve some goal.  Be up front or don't bother.

At this point I wouldn't want what your selling even if you can convince me it is needed.

Misplaced?  Displaced?  :)  From US now Asia.
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 13,572
Re: Police Need Multi Tool Training
« Reply #59 on: May 19, 2016, 07:31:42 AM »
Training is fine and in some ways I can understand it.  What if find interesting is are we talking a general training?  Not every country has the same rules for their police.  Heck not all officers carry the same gear let alone have the same protocols. 

Are we talking YOUR police officers or ALL police officers? 

I may be totally wrong but the police in Brasil for example have some protocols that lets say those in the UK may not have.  With that I'd imagine rural officers vs city officers would need different training. 

Maybe I'm reading too much into this. 

Esse Quam Videri

 

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