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Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars 1341

Sr. Member Posts: 451 There's a SAK for that!
Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
« on: February 10, 2017, 02:22:50 PM »
Yesterday I bought a Victorinox Rescue Tool. For use in my car. In addition I have two ResQme tools at fixed positions in the car.
I thought that manual impact tools like the Life Hammer and Rescue Tool are hard to use when fully submerged as it's hard to generate as much speed to hit underwater.

My question is, is it true that it's harder/impossible to break a window (side) in a flooded car with a Life Hammer or Rescue Tool. And would an automatic windowbreaker like the ResQme be a better option in that particular case?

I've done some internet research and couldn't find anything about this subject.



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Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 13,435
Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2017, 04:01:00 PM »
Pretty intense.  I dont know the answer for you but this is worth watching. 

Esse Quam Videri
No Life Club Posts: 3,331
Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2017, 05:36:37 PM »
When the car is submerged, but not flooded (yet) the water weighs on the glass.
By hitting it with a sharp, pointy object, the crack that follows will be enough for the water to crack it further open.

Water on both sides means no difference in presure, which will make it harder to bust. (We're not even talking about the increased drag on your arm under water)

So yes, the statement is true.

Fact: for the same reason, you can't open your car door under water when it isn't flooded, yet if you wait for the car to be flooded, the door can be opened again.

REMAINING CALM IS THE ANSWER (again)

Buy now or regret later
No Life Club Posts: 4,832 Hook enthusiast
Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2017, 12:22:07 AM »
-snip-
REMAINING CALM IS THE ANSWER (again)
Thats jamie hyneman's "zen" advice.   :D
(From when they tested escape from a sinking car methods)

Hooked, like everyone else. :D

Small knives do what big knives do, just slower.

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No Life Club Posts: 3,331
Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2017, 09:44:19 AM »
-snip-
REMAINING CALM IS THE ANSWER (again)
Thats jamie hyneman's "zen" advice.   :D
(From when they tested escape from a sinking car methods)
Damn, I'm discovered!

Seriously though, was it??

Buy now or regret later
Sr. Member Posts: 451 There's a SAK for that!
Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2017, 03:43:02 PM »
Thanks for your replies guys.
Your video was really impressive Aloha007. Note to self: don't run my car in the water.

It doesn't really answer my question. But in a way it did. Because:

- To open the doors, you have to wait for the pressure to equalise. So the car has to fill up.
- If you carry a windowbreaker you don't have to wait for the car to fill up, just shatter the glass and get out of the window.

I do find it an interesting question, will a lifehammer work in a submerged and flooded car. If there is one thing the video of Mythbusters teaches us is that a car in the water is unpredictable.
If you find yourself in the water there is no guaranty you will be able to break the window when the car isn't flooded.

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No Life Club Posts: 1,401
Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2017, 06:50:11 PM »
And, if by yourself, keeping yourself calm and from becoming in tangled in a seat belt or window opening, why open door can provide better odds.
Now if others with you, a child or passenger, then totally different game.
Best option is stay away from water.   

Rivers are flowing, can roll the car, spin the car.  Then there is debris to get caught on, currents. 

Visit a fire house and ask questions of water rescue personnel. 

There is not enough words to actually prepare one for the possibilities.   

All the best


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No Life Club Posts: 3,331
Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2017, 09:37:11 PM »
Fact is: your chances of making it out ok will be higher simply because you thought it through beforehand :tu:

Buy now or regret later
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 13,435
Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2017, 10:07:39 PM »
Fact is: your chances of making it out ok will be higher simply because you thought it through beforehand :tu:

Very true. 

Being disorientated will be one aspect wait for the vehicle to be completely submerged before you can try to open the door, thats gonna take some serious B$LLs

Esse Quam Videri
Sr. Member Posts: 451 There's a SAK for that!
Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2017, 10:51:33 PM »
Thanks again for the replies guys.
By sheer coincidence I found a magazine an article about this subject.

On the question if a manual impact tool (Life Hammer/Vic Resvue Tool) will work in a flooded car the answer is yes... But it will be damn near impossible as it is extremely hard to give the tool enough speed to shatter the glass.
That does not even take the stress of the situation in account.

So, an automatic windowbreaker is a must.

My entire collection and more: http://mactiresgear.wordpress.com/
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 13,435
Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2017, 07:18:38 AM »
I posted about buying an automatic center punch as my window break tool.  It hits really hard when depressed.  I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work.  The real tough part is the remaining calm during the whole ordeal.  Its not something one can train for. 

Esse Quam Videri
No Life Club Posts: 3,331
Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2017, 08:22:29 AM »
I posted about buying an automatic center punch as my window break tool.  It hits really hard when depressed.  I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work.  The real tough part is the remaining calm during the whole ordeal.  Its not something one can train for.
Unless you've got a pool and some spare cars...


Sadly the last 3 incidents where a car has hit the water, over here (which made the news) were all followed by the message that the driver passed away.
Thruth be told, 1-2 of those might have been suicide... :(

Buy now or regret later
Sr. Member Posts: 451 There's a SAK for that!
Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2017, 08:30:11 AM »
I posted about buying an automatic center punch as my window break tool.  It hits really hard when depressed.  I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work.  The real tough part is the remaining calm during the whole ordeal.  Its not something one can train for.

Ah, great comment. In breaking the window I also don't see any reason why it won't work.
An automatic window break tool is in essence an automatic center punch.

The next question to ask is we have to ask is whether the center punch will deploy while submerged. As for the ResQme,I don't really have a doubt it will. But I will test it just to make sure.

My entire collection and more: http://mactiresgear.wordpress.com/
No Life Club Posts: 1,014
Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2017, 08:30:59 AM »
It is said that drivers in Netherlands must pass a test in a submerged car in a swimming pool, with the help of divers.

Don't know if it is true.
Sr. Member Posts: 451 There's a SAK for that!
Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2017, 09:18:25 AM »
It is said that drivers in Netherlands must pass a test in a submerged car in a swimming pool, with the help of divers.

Don't know if it is true.

 :rofl:

Well I know... and it isn't true.

I do think it would be a great addition to the driving lessons however.

My entire collection and more: http://mactiresgear.wordpress.com/
No Life Club Posts: 3,331
Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2017, 09:56:11 AM »
It is said that drivers in Netherlands must pass a test in a submerged car in a swimming pool, with the help of divers.

Don't know if it is true.

 :rofl:

Well I know... and it isn't true.

I do think it would be a great addition to the driving lessons however.
Given your below sealevel cities it might not be a bad idea :D

Yet, where do you swim to afterworths? :facepalm:

Buy now or regret later
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 13,435
Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2017, 03:21:25 PM »
So I found this which is very interesting.  The leverage using the headrest seems feasible however the car was not full submerged.

Esse Quam Videri
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 13,435
Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2017, 03:38:23 PM »
Ok I found a video that show a window being broke while underwater.   The center punch he uses is the one I have.

Esse Quam Videri
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 13,435
Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2017, 03:52:11 PM »
After watching the video I realize a few things.

1. The temperature of the water is a big component.  Cold water will cause you to gasp making breathing and holding your breath difficult.
2. Depending on the body of water other problems such as the ability to see, obstructions ( ice ) can hinder making it to the surface, and again very cold water. 
3. Fluids from you vehicle will leach into the water and into the cabin where you are sitting.  These chemicals maybe ingested which can cause problems. 
4. Secondary drowning.  Even after a "successful" escape one can still die as a result of ingesting water/chemicals/pollutants.  Please look up secondary drowning.

Sorry to be so morbid.   

 

Esse Quam Videri
Sr. Member Posts: 451 There's a SAK for that!
Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2017, 04:44:38 PM »
...Sorry to be so morbid...
Thanks for the video!

Point 1 and 2 I am familiar with. I've dived in cold water numerous times and especially the first times are a real shocker.
Cold water makes you gasp for air which is a no-go if you don't have scuba gear at hand. Also, you are going to get the worst possible brainfreeze you can imagine.
Vision underwater can go from meters to centimetres in an instant. Combine this with night time conditions and you are blind.

So I won't call it morbid. Chances are if you drive your car in cold water at night and you let it flood, you are dead. That's just reality.

Point 3 and 4 are something I did not think of. And it's really hard to take precautions against this.
Perhaps the SpareAir is the best thing you can buy to buy you more time in a worst case scenario. However, at around $275,- a piece it's a very costly precaution as you need one for each passenger, and yourself.

When I'm at home I'm going to watch the video you posted, can't do it now since I'm at work.


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No Life Club Posts: 3,331
Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2017, 06:31:28 PM »
After watching the video I realize a few things.

1. The temperature of the water is a big component.  Cold water will cause you to gasp making breathing and holding your breath difficult.
2. Depending on the body of water other problems such as the ability to see, obstructions ( ice ) can hinder making it to the surface, and again very cold water. 
3. Fluids from you vehicle will leach into the water and into the cabin where you are sitting.  These chemicals maybe ingested which can cause problems. 
4. Secondary drowning.  Even after a "successful" escape one can still die as a result of ingesting water/chemicals/pollutants.  Please look up secondary drowning.

Sorry to be so morbid.   
That's it... I can't take it no more!

My next car will be an amphibious!
Overseas hollidays will be a roadtrip too all of the sudden.

Buy now or regret later
Sr. Member Posts: 451 There's a SAK for that!
Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2017, 06:38:39 PM »
After watching the video I realize a few things.

1. The temperature of the water is a big component.  Cold water will cause you to gasp making breathing and holding your breath difficult.
2. Depending on the body of water other problems such as the ability to see, obstructions ( ice ) can hinder making it to the surface, and again very cold water. 
3. Fluids from you vehicle will leach into the water and into the cabin where you are sitting.  These chemicals maybe ingested which can cause problems. 
4. Secondary drowning.  Even after a "successful" escape one can still die as a result of ingesting water/chemicals/pollutants.  Please look up secondary drowning.

Sorry to be so morbid.   
That's it... I can't take it no more!

My next car will be an amphibious!
Overseas hollidays will be a roadtrip too all of the sudden.

Be carefull selecting your new car. The Russians had an amphobious car/tank in WWII that could drive through rivers. However, the car could topple and it would flood within 10 seconds! They equipped the drivers with rebreathers that fit between the knees.
To prevent fogging of the goggles they included antifog cream, which they could apply after toppeling over.  :rofl:

My entire collection and more: http://mactiresgear.wordpress.com/
No Life Club Posts: 3,331
Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2017, 07:01:26 PM »
After watching the video I realize a few things.

1. The temperature of the water is a big component.  Cold water will cause you to gasp making breathing and holding your breath difficult.
2. Depending on the body of water other problems such as the ability to see, obstructions ( ice ) can hinder making it to the surface, and again very cold water. 
3. Fluids from you vehicle will leach into the water and into the cabin where you are sitting.  These chemicals maybe ingested which can cause problems. 
4. Secondary drowning.  Even after a "successful" escape one can still die as a result of ingesting water/chemicals/pollutants.  Please look up secondary drowning.

Sorry to be so morbid.   
That's it... I can't take it no more!

My next car will be an amphibious!
Overseas hollidays will be a roadtrip too all of the sudden.

Be carefull selecting your new car. The Russians had an amphobious car/tank in WWII that could drive through rivers. However, the car could topple and it would flood within 10 seconds! They equipped the drivers with rebreathers that fit between the knees.
To prevent fogging of the goggles they included antifog cream, which they could apply after toppeling over.  :rofl:
Sounds more like a submarine to me :rofl:

Buy now or regret later
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 13,435
Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2017, 07:52:30 PM »
Maybe one of these vehicles?  Cost prohibitive however.  Made in California.

« Last Edit: February 13, 2017, 07:55:10 PM by Aloha007 »

Esse Quam Videri
No Life Club Posts: 3,331
Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2017, 09:00:05 PM »
Maybe one of these vehicles?  Cost prohibitive however.  Made in California.


It's a convertible!
So even if it goes under, you won't need to break a window!
Now there's value for your money.

Buy now or regret later
No Life Club Posts: 1,171 I have a small selection of disparate tools
Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2017, 12:29:32 PM »
excellent thread - been busy with work over the last few weeks and only now catching up ! I have resqme's on both sets of car keys, haven't tested one yet, i have been promised the use of a scrapped car before it goes to the scrap yard, should be an interesting experiment.

It is never too late to be what you might have been - George Eliot

Mags is right - Eamo is not a collector. He has a disparate group of knives and multitools. NOT a collection.
Full Member Posts: 159
Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2017, 11:41:52 PM »
Provided you are conscious when you hit the water, activate your automatic window as soon as possible. Then you can spend the time extricating yourself, cutting seatbelts, etc...

Use your tools and enjoy the Zen of maintaining and sharpening them.

Consider donating a couple bucks to this site. There is no better knife or multitool site anywhere on planet internet.
Global Moderator Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 31,363
Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2017, 11:55:17 PM »
Welcome to the boards five.   :cheers:
No Life Club Posts: 4,832 Hook enthusiast
Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2017, 12:04:39 AM »
Welcome.  :cheers: :cheers:

-snip-
REMAINING CALM IS THE ANSWER (again)
Thats jamie hyneman's "zen" advice.   :D
(From when they tested escape from a sinking car methods)
Damn, I'm discovered!

Seriously though, was it??
I'm so late...
And yes. Episode 72, 'underwater car' I believe.

Hooked, like everyone else. :D

Small knives do what big knives do, just slower.

My 30 day pen challenge! Pretty(?) Pictures inside:
Official 30 Day Pen Challenge!
Full Member Posts: 159
Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2017, 04:00:32 AM »
Welcome to the boards five.   :cheers:

Thank you Pablo. I poke around a couple other blade or edge forums and I'm looking forward to learning here. I like the vibe already!

Use your tools and enjoy the Zen of maintaining and sharpening them.

Consider donating a couple bucks to this site. There is no better knife or multitool site anywhere on planet internet.

 

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