Leatherman Free Series

AimlessWanderer · **Reply #1320 on:** April 30, 2019, 01:11:04 AM

Quote from: gerleatherberman on April 30, 2019, 01:03:39 AM

LM is selling the P2/P4 as the strongest "full-size" pliers and not the strongest HD pliers.

Oh, come on. That's very tenuous.

gustophersmob · **Reply #1321 on:** April 30, 2019, 01:15:16 AM

It’s interesting, at around the 2:57 mark in the TX tool crib video, that the two plier heads are different. I wonder if the different sized lugs on the P2 would cause any odd issues with load transfer?

AimlessWanderer · **Reply #1322 on:** April 30, 2019, 01:21:35 AM

Quote from: gustophersmob on April 30, 2019, 01:15:16 AM

It’s interesting, at around the 2:57 mark in the TX tool crib video, that the two plier heads are different. I wonder if the different sized lugs on the P2 would cause any odd issues with load transfer?

Good call!

I did notice the difference, but didn't make that synaptic connection. I'll go back for another look

gerleatherberman · **Reply #1323 on:** April 30, 2019, 01:24:46 AM

Quote from: AimlessWanderer on April 30, 2019, 01:11:04 AM

Oh, come on. That's very tenuous.

True.

Believe me, if I need some bad-to-the-bone pliers, the Surge would be my choice. I would equate the P2/P4 pliers with the Wave more than anything. IMO of course.

AimlessWanderer · **Reply #1324 on:** April 30, 2019, 01:44:39 AM

Quote from: gustophersmob on April 30, 2019, 01:15:16 AM

It’s interesting, at around the 2:57 mark in the TX tool crib video, that the two plier heads are different. I wonder if the different sized lugs on the P2 would cause any odd issues with load transfer?

Hard to say without seeing one up close, but gut feeling is that the P2 head would be a little stronger on the short lug side. In itself, it won't increase loading on the other side.

I think the torsional flex would possibly increase load on one lug over the other on individual jaw sections, but having them dissimilar sized won't load one handle's lugs more than the other. The fact that the force is acting further from the change in section might mean the longer lug isn't as strong as the shorter one, and the force is effecting a bending moment on the casting rather than direct shear stress as on the shorter lug. (shear strength is 0.75 x tensile strength of the full cross sectional area, but bending moments are more complicated to calculate, particularly on sectional changes)

EDIT: It's a LOOOONG time since I was doing design calculations like that, so I'm not going to speculate on percentage differences between the two. Suffice to say that if the P4 design is strong enough, the P2 will be too.

gustophersmob · **Reply #1325 on:** April 30, 2019, 01:44:55 AM

Quote from: AimlessWanderer on April 30, 2019, 01:44:39 AM

Hard to say without seeing one up close, but gut feeling is that the P2 head would be a little stronger on the short lug side. In itself, it won't increase loading on the other side.

I think the torsional flex would possibly increase load on one lug over the other on individual jaw sections, but having them dissimilar sized won't load one handle's lugs more than the other. The fact that the force is acting further from the change in section might mean the longer lug isn't as strong as the shorter one, and the force is effecting a bending moment on the casting rather than direct shear stress as on the shorter lug. (shear strength is 0.75 x tensile strength of the full cross sectional area, but bending moments are more complicated to calculate, particularly on sectional changes)

That’s basically what I was wondering, if actual use of the pliers could cause some odd bending moment since they’re slightly offset from the centerline of the tool, which would then unevenly load the lugs. Though, you definitely said it better

I suppose it really comes down to what force they designed it to handle and how well the pliers are cast

gerleatherberman · **Reply #1326 on:** April 30, 2019, 04:44:49 AM

Any specific pliers actions y'all would like me to perform?
I can put different materials in a vice and try twisting, angle bending, turning, etc. I am thinking perpendicular bending of hardened steel may be the most likely to cause an issue with the area of possible concern.

My current P4 is now a user, so it wouldn't bother me to bend some stuff with it.
It became a user when I ordered a second one for the collection.

AimlessWanderer · **Reply #1327 on:** April 30, 2019, 05:00:26 AM

Cool!

Just follow your instincts, and give it a hard time

roamingcat · **Reply #1328 on:** April 30, 2019, 05:45:50 AM

Quote from: gerleatherberman on April 30, 2019, 04:44:49 AM

My current P4 is now a user, so it wouldn't bother me to bend some stuff with it.
It became a user when I ordered a second one for the collection.

I'm sure the MT manufacturers would not have a problem with that. Many of us folks here seem to have unlimited funds when it comes to multitools.

gerleatherberman · **Reply #1329 on:** April 30, 2019, 05:58:26 AM

Quote from: roamingcat on April 30, 2019, 05:45:50 AM

I'm sure the MT manufacturers would not have a problem with that. Many of us folks here seem to have unlimited funds when it comes to multitools.

I'm going to be working an extra full day this week to pay for most of the second P4.

Where there's a tool, there's a way.

Syncop8r · **Reply #1330 on:** April 30, 2019, 09:53:06 AM

Quote from: gerleatherberman on April 30, 2019, 01:03:39 AM

LM is selling the P2/P4 as the strongest "full-size" pliers and not the strongest HD pliers.

It really bugs me that what they call "Full Size" is not the fullest size.

SteveC · **Reply #1331 on:** April 30, 2019, 02:09:06 PM

Seems to me they were touting them as the strongest plier we've ever made in the early video's

gerleatherberman · **Reply #1332 on:** April 30, 2019, 05:37:00 PM

Quote from: SteveC on April 30, 2019, 02:09:06 PM

Seems to me they were touting them as the strongest plier we've ever made in the early video's

Indeed it did. But, after a few of his appearances, he backtracked to add 'full-size', which by their tool classification means tools like the Wave, Rebar, Charge, etc. Very unfortunate LM chose to promote their new models by cutting down their current lineup. I personally cannot see the P series dethroning the Wave/Charge.

Dutch_Tooler · **Reply #1333 on:** April 30, 2019, 05:42:33 PM

Maybe not... but from the design I get the impression the P2 and P4 are scalable to something bigger...

Aloha · **Reply #1334 on:** April 30, 2019, 05:45:43 PM

Be interesting to see if this series has "bigger" plans

gerleatherberman · **Reply #1335 on:** April 30, 2019, 07:41:41 PM

Pliers size.

Syncop8r · **Reply #1336 on:** April 30, 2019, 10:01:54 PM

Quote from: Dutch_Tooler on April 30, 2019, 05:42:33 PM

Maybe not... but from the design I get the impression the P2 and P4 are scalable to something bigger...

Quote from: Aloha on April 30, 2019, 05:45:43 PM

Be interesting to see if this series has "bigger" plans

Hmmm... the Free is 4¼" long, halfway between the Wave etc (4") and Surge etc (4½")... a bigger tool would perhaps be even longer than the Surge/ST300.
Was the Free P series meant to sit in the middle? And further P models will be the same size but with different implements? Or perhaps they are longer because of their mechanics?

SteveC · **Reply #1337 on:** April 30, 2019, 10:04:32 PM

The extra 1/4" or so if for the new locking system, so yes .

Dutch_Tooler · **Reply #1338 on:** April 30, 2019, 11:03:50 PM

@Sync, I was rather referring to the possibility the handles might be widened to accommodate more or wider implements... can be done without changing the locking system in principle. Pure speculaton, of course, but entertaining...

Dutch_Tooler · **Reply #1339 on:** May 01, 2019, 03:26:16 AM

So of course I want to get my hands on a P4, if only to feel and fondle... ehh to have a first hands-on experience. The MT gods are not making this easier... even if I am currently in NYC and about to spend 10 days in Florida.

Amazon can't guarantee that Netrush will have it delivered before I head back home, so off the list it goes. The P2 yes, not the P4. I want the P4.

Same for Bass Sporting Goods - "allow 1-2 weeks" is just not good enough.

Cabela's says 4-7 business days, which would work, but their website does not allow me to enter Germany as the country hosting my credit card billing address... WTF?

Retail doesn't start until August...

The frustration is very palpable.

At least I'll probably spend another week in the US in August, so I guess I'll just have to be patient...

gerleatherberman · **Reply #1340 on:** May 01, 2019, 03:41:20 AM

Those tools seem to be pretty popular. Good luck on finding a P4, it is also the one I wanted the most, but the P2 is nice as well. I was glad I got both, because I really like the P2 pocket clip on the P4. When they start selling the clips, I'll get another for the P2.

Blackbeard · **Reply #1341 on:** May 01, 2019, 06:48:22 AM

Quote from: SteveC on April 30, 2019, 02:09:06 PM

Seems to me they were touting them as the strongest plier we've ever made in the early video's

not sure what context they meant...the steel, the leverage, pivot, steel hardness, force you could apply before it breaks...were they referring to the pliers section or the whole tool, it could be the strongest depending on the context.

genevabuck · **Reply #1342 on:** May 01, 2019, 10:15:38 PM

Quote from: Dutch_Tooler on May 01, 2019, 03:26:16 AM

So of course I want to get my hands on a P4, if only to feel and fondle... ehh to have a first hands-on experience. The MT gods are not making this easier... even if I am currently in NYC and about to spend 10 days in Florida.

Amazon can't guarantee that Netrush will have it delivered before I head back home, so off the list it goes. The P2 yes, not the P4. I want the P4.

Same for Bass Sporting Goods - "allow 1-2 weeks" is just not good enough.

Cabela's says 4-7 business days, which would work, but their website does not allow me to enter Germany as the country hosting my credit card billing address... WTF?

Retail doesn't start until August...

The frustration is very palpable.

At least I'll probably spend another week in the US in August, so I guess I'll just have to be patient...

I’m pretty sure that Blade HQ gave me an option for overnight shipping.

SteveC · **Reply #1343 on:** May 01, 2019, 11:32:09 PM

Quote from: Blackbeard on May 01, 2019, 06:48:22 AM

not sure what context they meant...the steel, the leverage, pivot, steel hardness, force you could apply before it breaks...were they referring to the pliers section or the whole tool, it could be the strongest depending on the context.

They were talking about the plier head

Dutch_Tooler · **Reply #1344 on:** May 02, 2019, 04:36:22 AM

Quote from: genevabuck on May 01, 2019, 10:15:38 PM

I’m pretty sure that Blade HQ gave me an option for overnight shipping.

Thanks for the tip!

Not overnight, but 2 business days, which will work for me

Let's hope they accept temp addresses.

gerleatherberman · **Reply #1345 on:** May 02, 2019, 05:12:36 AM

Quote from: Dutch_Tooler on May 02, 2019, 04:36:22 AM

Thanks for the tip!
Not overnight, but 2 business days, which will work for me Let's hope they accept temp addresses.

Looking forward to reading your thoughts on the P4.

israelpiper · **Reply #1346 on:** May 02, 2019, 08:58:38 AM

Quote from: george1 on April 28, 2019, 01:19:30 PM

Are the P2/P4 available at retail outlets in the US yet? How about spare pocket clips?
Can l walk into a Cabelas/Walmart etc. and buy one or is it only through Leatherman's online store?
I will be in the US in a few weeks and will definitely get a P2 (or a P4 if l can get a pocket clip) if they are available.

They have arrived in a few retail outlets here in Israel. With handling charges, customs assessment, and a 17% VAT, the P4 will be slightly over $200 in sheqels. And yes, we have a Leatherman Service Centre here and get the same warranty.