Adapting reciprocating saw blades and making bits to fit the Wave, Charge etc

[Maxintheuk]

Just following on from the original topic linked below by Bob (J-Sews):

https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,95.0.html

I've been after these blades for years but never managed to get any unfortunately.

I'm planning to get a set made (I have some sub-contract work with a UK engineering company) but wondered if it's worth pursuing this commercially (with a special deal to MT forum members of course!)?

Some thoughts:

Would Leatherman be unhappy (ie cause issues) with someone making third party parts to fit their tools?

Thickness, this is an issue as the lanyard ring sample I have is 1.01mm thick but the blades seem to range from 0.7 to 1.6.  To be grinding blade thickness as well as machining the shape is an extra complication that would be best avoided.

What blades would people like?  Typically the reciprocating blades are for powerful tools so switched to a human powered saw then something with say 6 tpi might be a bit tough to use.  Obviously a wood and metal saw, maybe different tpi for different cuts/metals.  The LM and SAK knives are 12 tpi if I am measuring right.

So thinking for wood = 12 tpi and maybe 18 tpi and metal 18 and 24?  Maybe a 'demolition/jabsaw' type blade at 8 tpi might be useful for drywall, coarse wood cuts etc?

Length, again LM/SAK go around 63 to 70mm for their woodsaws so 100mm would be ideal and still be fine in a sheath?

With credit and thanks to Bob for the pic below and inspiration.

[Poncho65]

I would be willling to say that most would like at least a wood cutting blade and a metal cutting blade Maybe more members will chime in on this I also think Bob may have contacted LM years ago about them making these and I don't believe at the time that they wanted to that may have changed over the years but I would say you are safe in making these That isn't a 100% definite but pretty sure

[Etherealicer]

It's gadgety enough to make me interested. However, the whole point of replaceable blades is that they can be easily replaced... with emphasis on easy. So, to me it would make more sense to invest into a holder that can hold the generic blades. Something along the line of this T-shank holder would pique my interest.

[Poncho65]

As per requested Moved

[Maxintheuk]

Thanks!

Let me know if any interest in these guys?

I'm in the UK but ship worldwide every day through my main business so no problem wherever you are to Airmail them over within 1 - 2 weeks if all goes to plan.

The aim would be to use high quality blades of course and retail these at under $10 each shipped worldwide and hopefully less with discounts for sending more than one blade or a mixed pack of say three, five etc.

One question to LM owners - I only have a Wave in the larger tool range.  Do the Surge and Charge use the exact same lanyard clip fitting and sizing?   ie no issues with interchangeability?

[kkokkolis]

I made two sets with several saws, but since the included LM saws are OK, I hardly need to use them. I would use a  nice drill though. The only tool I saw having one was some Polish Army Demolition tool, if I remember right.

[gregozedobe]

One question to LM owners - I only have a Wave in the larger tool range. Do the Surge and Charge use the exact same lanyard clip fitting and sizing?   ie no issues with interchangeability?

I have a vague recollection that there was a slight difference between a Wave and a Charge fitting.  IIRC Tofty asked that you specify which one you had for fine-tuning of the adapter that he was making.  But I could be wrong.

Edit:  But I wasn't:
https://www.shapeways.com/product/JVHF3S7MG/jigsaw-blade-holder-lm-wave-charge-multitools

[Maxintheuk]

I made two sets with several saws, but since the included LM saws are OK, I hardly need to use them. I would use a  nice drill though. The only tool I saw having one was some Polish Army Demolition tool, if I remember right.

Thanks for the input.  Drill bits are simple though - just use these in the large bit holder - not sure how much actual drilling you can do with a LM though?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Titanium-Drill-Bit-Set-HSS-Titanium-coated-Drill-Bits-hex-shank-1-5-6-5mm/171858315478?hash=item28038dc8d6:g:oiwAAOSwrjtch-tE

[Maxintheuk]

Well...not blown away by the enthusiasm for this but it is early days - kind of 'one' maybe so far!   

I'm going to press on regardless as to look back at Bob's original topic there were pages of people after these.  Whatever happens I want a set so I'm going to make an initial run if only for myself.   

Been looking at what's out there for high quality commercial saw blades and lots of choice so for the initial test run I'll do a mix of metal, wood, general purpose and even a demolition blade in varying tpi's to see how they work.

Thickness of the blades varies from 0.9mm to 1.3mm and the demolition blades coming in at 1.6mm.  I don't doubt the demolition type will be unusable in practical terms in the Wave but you have to try!  This does mean that the mounting shank of the blade will have to be machined/ground down to 1.0mm for the thicker blades.

Lengths - I'll post up some comparison pics below - the Wave blade is only 65mm (2.5") actual cutting length.  I'd like to do a minimum of 100mm (4") and I think a 125mm (5") will be useful too even though too long for some sheaths.  I think 150mm will be too much leverage on the mount but 125mm (5") is a huge improvement on the fixed LM blade.

For comparison I have pictured a popular bush craft/general folding wood saw with a 165mm (6.5") blade.

But all this will work quite well as many blades come in 240mm so I can get one 100mm and one 125mm from one large blade.

Anyway, enough rambling thoughts - anyone wanting to chime in thoughts etc will be very welcome.   

Click on pics for big ones.

[Maxintheuk]

Well guys - is there *any* interest in these?  Having real trouble getting this in progress as our machinists cannot do it economically, have tried laser and waterjet cutting companies with no luck.

But...I may finally be getting somewhere with a very helpful local engineering team.

Thing is as I say looking back at the J-Sews 7 page topic people were all over them wanting to get hold of some but judging by the lack of replies in this topic there is virtually zero interest any more!        

[AimlessWanderer]

Well guys - is there *any* interest in these?  Having real trouble getting this in progress as our machinists cannot do it economically, have tried laser and waterjet cutting companies with no luck.

But...I may finally be getting somewhere with a very helpful local engineering team.

Thing is as I say looking back at the J-Sews 7 page topic people were all over them wanting to get hold of some but judging by the lack of replies in this topic there is virtually zero interest any more!        

I think a lot of the interest back then may just have been novelty factor, which has since worn off.   

As to manufacturing, I'd probably go the wire cutting route. Cleaner cuts than water or laser, and you can stack them to cut several at a time without any bevelling or lack of accuracy. I do have contacts, but know it wouldn't be worth looking at small batch runs. Programming and setting up for 5 blades would be cost prohibitive, and as you say, there isn't the interest for a batch of 100+.

[SteveC]

 

[Poncho65]

If there is low interest here could you try social media It is a bit of a different crowd than here at MTO (for the most part anyways ) and the response may be different, you never know The regular EDC crowd may be as enthusiastic about these as they were in Bob's thread I don't like steering people away from MTO usually ever but that avenue may be a good choice for this project if the response is less that enthusiast here

[MMR]

This is just my input, so please don’t take it the wrong way.

I was actually experimenting with something like this for both my Surge, but I found that carrying a large saw blade was not only extremely awkward and required it’s own long protective sheath / pouch.

But also that the large saw blade for a   reciprocating saw / zallsaw are really thin and if carried in a pouch/ sheath bend extremely easily.

Again this is just my input, so please don’t take it the wrong way


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[Maxintheuk]

Thanks guys - appreciate the thoughts and all very valid I think.

I've never done social media for an instant so that's out but I'm getting a few made and if it works out easy and reasonable cost to cut I may do a few more and pop some on eBay to see what happens.

Late to the game here but I only just realised the Wave has the removable hidden lanyard ring so that coming out leaves two spaces for these to fit which is handy.

I've got an assorted set of Lenox US blades and some great spec Bosch wood blades so will do a trial.  The demolition blade is a bit overkill and would strain the mount too much but included for scale. 

After some more playing around if you match up the position of the template very carefully you can make the cuts much simpler than following the exact outline - basically one slot and one notch.  Meaning only two tool movements.  The tang ends can be left longer and tidied on the grinder.

I do plan to make long blades but these can always be trimmed to size very easily on a grinder/cutter/dremel to suit the end user.

[MMR]

Thanks guys - appreciate the thoughts and all very valid I think.

I've never done social media for an instant so that's out but I'm getting a few made and if it works out easy and reasonable cost to cut I may do a few more and pop some on eBay to see what happens.

Late to the game here but I only just realised the Wave has the removable hidden lanyard ring so that coming out leaves two spaces for these to fit which is handy.

I've got an assorted set of Lenox US blades and some great spec Bosch wood blades so will do a trial.  The demolition blade is a bit overkill and would strain the mount too much but included for scale. 

After some more playing around if you match up the position of the template very carefully you can make the cuts much simpler than following the exact outline - basically one slot and one notch.  Meaning only two tool movements.  The tang ends can be left longer and tidied on the grinder.

I do plan to make long blades but these can always be trimmed to size very easily on a grinder/cutter/dremel to suit the end user.

Just one thing to add; when I was testing mine, I found that this area of the blades (where they attach) would bend (and one time even crack)



I think the reason why; is that one applies a different kind of pressure when using it as a hand saw instead of when it’s used in a power tool, where you sort of let it work it’s way through whatever you are cutting itself.

I’d don’t know if there’s some way to reenforce this part without making it awkward or bulky looking?

I do want to say that, as I was merely experimenting with these, I just used some cheap blades from I think it was aldi or lidl, maybe the more premium blades borsch will hold up better.

But either way; just want to bring it up that this is a weak point of them, especially when they have been modified to fit a multitool and see manual sawing usage


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[Maxintheuk]

Yes, it's definitely a potential issue as is wear on the LM parts.

Thanks for all the comments though - all input is welcome and I'll post up as much info and pics as I can as it all helps others.

These Lenox (USA made) and Bosch blades (Swiss made) are top quality in my examination so far.

My plan here is to make these blades the best they can be in terms of material, fit and suitability, ie no use having a thick heavy tpi blade that is impossible or unreliable to use.

It's also as above, not necessary to cut them so 'fiddly' you can take advantage of the natural shape of the tang to mill out two simple cuts.

Also the notch LM make in the lock slot is slightly larger than it needs to be so tolerances can definitely be finer on that plus the horizontal 'U' that slides over the mount bushing can be made parallel rather than opening out at the ends - all this is only 0.1 or 0.2mm differences but it makes 'a' difference to strength and the less slop the better the use and the less the wear on the mounts.

Anyway, proof is in the pudding and I have to make some and abuse them to see how it works. 

[Maxintheuk]

Quick update - still hoping to get some samples made soon.

But...the Bosch blades will not be usable - simply too much resistance with these larger pull stroke blades for a human powered use (compared to the electric recip saw) and the pull stroke does not work well and would surely strain and wear out or fail the LM mount.

So, sticking with the Lenox blades which all work OK except for the 656R (same issue as Bosch)

Therefore I will trial out:

810R = 10 tpi Wood/Metal/Plastic

818R = 18 tpi Medium Metal but also works fine on wood and plastic etc

624R = 24 tpi Thin Metal but again also works fine on wood and plastic etc

Also looking at some Saxon branded wood blades - quick cut style like the Wolverine hand saw pictured above.

[Maxintheuk]

Hey guys, just to close this off - sadly I've not been able to find an economical method of producing these - whether laser or water cutting or machining so I'm going to pass this one over.

I'll stick with the jigsaw blades!

https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,81179.0.html

[alexTOOL]

I made two sets with several saws, but since the included LM saws are OK, I hardly need to use them. I would use a  nice drill though. The only tool I saw having one was some Polish Army Demolition tool, if I remember right.

Here it is:

https://forum.multitool.org/index.php?topic=35962.0

[gerleatherberman]

Hey guys, just to close this off - sadly I've not been able to find an economical method of producing these - whether laser or water cutting or machining so I'm going to pass this one over.

I'll stick with the jigsaw blades!

https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,81179.0.html

Thank you for the hard work with this, Max!
I am more fond of the jigsaw blade setup myself. Mainly, because of the sabre blades being to aggressive for having a Wave/Charge/Surge as a handle.

Perhaps a more economical method will arise in the future.
I was thinking, if you wanted to use the thicker sabre blades, then they could always be cut down a bit to be pocket friendly. 

[Maxintheuk]

Thank you for the hard work with this, Max!
I am more fond of the jigsaw blade setup myself. Mainly, because of the sabre blades being to aggressive for having a Wave/Charge/Surge as a handle.

Thanks for that.    Yes, a fear of mine was that it would be too much strain on the LM mount - as I have a stack of the blades I will try and grind one to try but it will not be neat enough for my liking for sure.

[Poncho65]

Sorry to hear that the project has been put on halt You put a good deal of time and work in this and we the community appreciate it as a whole as glbm said, perhaps a more economical solution will pop up in the future for this

[Dutch_Tooler]

Just to chime in here... I think it is not lack of interest per se that has seen low response numbers in this thread. I'm vaguely interested in these setups as well. In fact I have one of Tofty's adapters, and also one of the original batch of saw blades provided by Bob/J-sews at the time (a Skil blade for wood, looks like no. 2 in Bob's pic). However, neither of these has seen use since my initial brief testing - for normal daily use I'll take a dedicated saw with a blade dedicated for the purpose, preferably fixed at both ends for metal cutting - and I've come to consider the Charge/Wave adapter thing as something fit for an emergency-only use case at the most. (Having said that, my emergency tool kit does contain Tofty's adapter and a variety of blades.)

Anyway, good initiative Max and thanks for the patience in testing and for the write-ups

[comis]

Just to chime in here... I think it is not lack of interest per se that has seen low response numbers in this thread. I'm vaguely interested in these setups as well. In fact I have one of Tofty's adapters, and also one of the original batch of saw blades provided by Bob/J-sews at the time (a Skil blade for wood, looks like no. 2 in Bob's pic). However, neither of these has seen use since my initial brief testing - for normal daily use I'll take a dedicated saw with a blade dedicated for the purpose, preferably fixed at both ends for metal cutting - and I've come to consider the Charge/Wave adapter thing as something fit for an emergency-only use case at the most. (Having said that, my emergency tool kit does contain Tofty's adapter and a variety of blades.)

Anyway, good initiative Max and thanks for the patience in testing and for the write-ups

D_T, thanks for mentioning the Tofty's adapter, I was just about to say the same thing.

[Maxintheuk]

Hey, thanks guys - I really appreciate the sentiments and kind words.