Why lock blades?

[Barry Rowland]

I'm a seasoned veteran of numerous wooden spoon deployments!! 

A wooden spoon wielded by an angry grandma Has been used as a weapon against unruly kids more times than grandpas pocket knife, weather locking or slip joint....

[Barry Rowland]

My .02 cents.  I've had brake failures, etc.  I slipped while cutting brush with my Rebar saw, causing me a trip to the ER and a son almost passing out  .  My hands are covered with scars, all of which we're caused by my inattentiveness.  My Dad, a WW2 vet as well as a aircraft pilot/mechanic, said if it's mechanical don't put blind faith in it.  In today's world, the traditional scout knife isn't even permitted to be used in a scouting event because it doesn't lock, and the organization doesn't want to be sued when a kid gets hurt.  Bottom line for me is to use caution and good old fashioned common sense.
I love all knives, locking or not, but if a fixed blade will do the job better, I'll use it. 

[comis]

My .02 cents.  I've had brake failures, etc.  I slipped while cutting brush with my Rebar saw, causing me a trip to the ER and a son almost passing out  .  My hands are covered with scars, all of which we're caused by my inattentiveness.  My Dad, a WW2 vet as well as a aircraft pilot/mechanic, said if it's mechanical don't put blind faith in it.  In today's world, the traditional scout knife isn't even permitted to be used in a scouting event because it doesn't lock, and the organization doesn't want to be sued when a kid gets hurt.  Bottom line for me is to use caution and good old fashioned common sense.
I love all knives, locking or not, but if a fixed blade will do the job better, I'll use it. 

Good old fashioned common sense. 


I think it boils down to attitude, some see the lock as a safety net to fall on, while others trust it like a bridge. 





I never see ZT knives any different than other blades, but for those whom would believe otherwise, this video did raise some debates about whether it was misused or mis-advertised.

[Rapidray]

My .02 cents.  I've had brake failures, etc.  I slipped while cutting brush with my Rebar saw, causing me a trip to the ER and a son almost passing out  .  My hands are covered with scars, all of which we're caused by my inattentiveness.  My Dad, a WW2 vet as well as a aircraft pilot/mechanic, said if it's mechanical don't put blind faith in it.  In today's world, the traditional scout knife isn't even permitted to be used in a scouting event because it doesn't lock, and the organization doesn't want to be sued when a kid gets hurt.  Bottom line for me is to use caution and good old fashioned common sense.
I love all knives, locking or not, but if a fixed blade will do the job better, I'll use it.

I didn’t know they had to have locks on their knives 
I can understand their reasons for sure.

[Rapidray]

Good old fashioned common sense. 


I think it boils down to attitude, some see the lock as a safety net to fall on, while others trust it like a bridge. 

I never see ZT knives any different than other blades, but for those whom would believe otherwise, this video did raise some debates about whether it was misused or mis-advertised.

I agree...My MUDD is solid - no problems there.

[Aloha]

Thanks for the video comis.  I like the aesthetics of frame lock but prefer back locks. 

@Barry,  .  I'm sure marketing has lot to do with purchases but we have to practice good knife safety in the end.  I'm fairly sure there are some locks that just out perform others.  I know I saw a video of lock types tested.  This is not to say the wont fail or we can abandon safe use.  I can see how some would view a knife with a locking mechanism as safer.  I can only suggest we educate our friends and family to continue to use safe practices.     

[RF52]

Thanks for the video comis.  I like the aesthetics of frame lock but prefer back locks. 

@Barry,  .  I'm sure marketing has lot to do with purchases but we have to practice good knife safety in the end.  I'm fairly sure there are some locks that just out perform others.  I know I saw a video of lock types tested.  This is not to say the wont fail or we can abandon safe use.  I can see how some would view a knife with a locking mechanism as safer.  I can only suggest we educate our friends and family to continue to use safe practices.   

I believe BladeHQ had a video series on Youtube testing lock strenght, found it quite interesting

Sent fra min FRD-L09 via Tapatalk

[Barry Rowland]

 . I agree Aloha.  I saw that video!
Knives are like anything else, I guess.  It's all in how you use them most of the time.   

Thanks for the video comis.  I like the aesthetics of frame lock but prefer back locks. 

@Barry,  .  I'm sure marketing has lot to do with purchases but we have to practice good knife safety in the end.  I'm fairly sure there are some locks that just out perform others.  I know I saw a video of lock types tested.  This is not to say the wont fail or we can abandon safe use.  I can see how some would view a knife with a locking mechanism as safer.  I can only suggest we educate our friends and family to continue to use safe practices.   

[Old Boy]

Thanks for the video comis.  I like the aesthetics of frame lock but prefer back locks. 

@Barry,  .  I'm sure marketing has lot to do with purchases but we have to practice good knife safety in the end.  I'm fairly sure there are some locks that just out perform others.  I know I saw a video of lock types tested.  This is not to say the wont fail or we can abandon safe use.  I can see how some would view a knife with a locking mechanism as safer.  I can only suggest we educate our friends and family to continue to use safe practices.   

Back when I was into that same lock debate I was really into those videos that tested lock strength testing of various lock types. The best ones were from blade HQ and Demko testing various knives against the Triad lock for CS.

One video I’ve never seen is triad vs back lock which I always wondered. Not that it should matter in normal use but I have a sneaking suspicion that back locks are just as strong as Triad as regardless of the extra pin in the Triad it all comes to the frame integrity to withstand stress.

Which goes back to a high quality fixed blade being your best option for hard use.

[ElevenBlade]

My .02 cents.  I've had brake failures, etc.  I slipped while cutting brush with my Rebar saw, causing me a trip to the ER and a son almost passing out  .  My hands are covered with scars, all of which we're caused by my inattentiveness.  My Dad, a WW2 vet as well as a aircraft pilot/mechanic, said if it's mechanical don't put blind faith in it.  In today's world, the traditional scout knife isn't even permitted to be used in a scouting event because it doesn't lock, and the organization doesn't want to be sued when a kid gets hurt.  Bottom line for me is to use caution and good old fashioned common sense.
I love all knives, locking or not, but if a fixed blade will do the job better, I'll use it.

Is that what it's come to?   

[Barry Rowland]

Sadly so...

[Ray S]

I really hate to get back into this debate......but.......  I just finished watching that video of someone banging on a roll of tape with the spine of a bunch of different knives. My computer for some reason is not blessed with a sound feature(it's a Fred Flintstone Windows XP that has been updated)so I had to have the closed caption feature engaged and so could not listen to the,"rock lock" whatever that may be.
My only comment would be:what is the purpose of batonning the spine of a knife when pressure is never applied in that direction? Can anyone give me a coherent explanation?

[Barry Rowland]

None whatsoever.

[nate j]

In today's world, the traditional scout knife isn't even permitted to be used in a scouting event because it doesn't lock, and the organization doesn't want to be sued when a kid gets hurt.

If it makes you feel any better, this is a local council or district decision, not a national BSA decision.  See
https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss08/#g

Our local council, while not differentiating between locking and non-locking folding knives, disallows fixed blades.

[Barry Rowland]

That is good news!

[AimlessWanderer]

I've been singing this tune for years, praising slippies and criticising locking blades. I think I might have one or two locking blades kicking around somewhere, and the Vic Spirit is the only multitool left that has a locking blade. Everything else I own, is non-locking or bladeless, which suits my preferences and usage far better.

There are two reasons for this. Firstly, I had injured myself more times with locking knives than with non-locking. Especially backlocks. I absolutely hate those things, and outright refuse to own them now. I won't even use someone else's. Even having my current brainstem issues, which screws up vision, balance, and coordination, amongst other things, it is very rare that I'll injure myself with a slippy, irrespective of the task at hand - even inline piercing cuts (I do these frequently on vape juice bottles, go get the last bit out - about 1ml - that won't come down the nozzle). It requires certain usage techniques to do it safely, but I haven't once hurt myself "stabbing" into the bottle to start the cut. The second reason I have become averse to locking blades, is UK law...

... but NOT in the way you might think!

The often misunderstood UK laws, say that if you have a specific need for a locking blade, then go for it. However, fixed blades fall under the exact same category. So if I have just cause for a locker, I have just cause for a fixed blade, and why in the name of sanity should I settle for anything less than a fixed blade? In this perspective, a locking blade achieves nothing! It's just an inferior choice of tool in my opinion.

As such, I'm genuinely in favour of non-locking folders and fixed blades, and locking folders are completely inferior to both in my own personal opinion, and hold no functional value for me whatsoever. That said, if others feel they are a better choice for them, then so be it. I've no more right to try and "correct" them, than they have to try and "correct" me. We're all safer using the tools we are most familiar and dextrous with, so long as we can recognise, appreciate and use the tool within its safe limits.

So to sum up, locking blades are an abomination; a complete waste of money and materials, overcomplicating matters, and adding additional obstacles to safe one handed closing in many cases, and have spoilt many multitools with their presence, in my opinion. For many others, they're a complete lifesaver, and have enabled them to carry out tasks safer than they would otherwise have done, and if it wasn't for locking blades, they might not even have enough fingers left to be able to open a slippy.

They're no more wrong than I am.

[Marcellus]

I wondered what ever happened to 50ft- trad.

I recall enjoying most of  your opinionated  posts when I joined this forum a few years back.

I posted mine on this topic above.

Well , if you can't  stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. 

My regards

[AimlessWanderer]

I wondered what ever happened to 50ft- trad.

I recall enjoying most of  your opinionated  posts when I joined this forum a few years back.

I posted mine on this topic above.

Well , if you can't  stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. 

My regards

Hi Marcellus,

I've never been shy of expressing my opinions  but I'm only really knowledgeable about what's right for me. If I learned anything in my time here, it's that pocket tools are used in a myriad of ways and places that I know absolutely nothing about. Opinionated I may be, but it's always fascinating to hear insightful accounts of how and why the opposite of everything that's right for me, is right for someone else.

As to my absence, life changed drastically, and pocket tools aren't a focal point for me these days. I do still pop back occasionally though. 

[comis]

I really hate to get back into this debate......but.......  I just finished watching that video of someone banging on a roll of tape with the spine of a bunch of different knives. My computer for some reason is not blessed with a sound feature(it's a Fred Flintstone Windows XP that has been updated)so I had to have the closed caption feature engaged and so could not listen to the,"rock lock" whatever that may be.
My only comment would be:what is the purpose of batonning the spine of a knife when pressure is never applied in that direction? Can anyone give me a coherent explanation?

None whatsoever.

  I posted that video, and if there is any take away from that video is that--

Advertising may suggest a certain brand/lock sounds are indestructible or reliable, and they could be up for any kind of hard use or even mishandling. But the truth of the matter is there is no lock is fail save, and anyone will be sadly mistaken to think these folding knives are good for "tactical" or "hard use", if some mere tapping on spine can disengage the lock.

That's why I am firm believer to "treat every knife like a slipjoint"

[Gerhard Gerber]

Apologies in advance AW but you cannot mention the "insane" knife laws in your country while sipping the exact same Kool Aid 

I would love to know how & why a backlock knife is so dangerous? 

I have cut myself many times, mostly as a child, and those were slipjoints, or a very memorable incident a rusty fixed blade bait knife on the beach.

Cuts from modern locking folders have been limited to:
- Incidents of stupidity like cutting biltong towards my thumb, the knife did not care that it had Spyderco's compression lock on, it just carried on with the business of cutting.
- Incidents of stupidity playing with a knife like it's a fidget toy,

Sorry if this offends, but simple logic tells me that a folding knife with a lock is better than without, and even if you do not have the manual dexterity to operate a knife one handed (or whatever), you can operate a locking knife two handed just like a slipjoint and use the advantage of the lock without any increased "danger" compared to a slipjoint.

[AimlessWanderer]

Apologies in advance AW but you cannot mention the "insane" knife laws in your country while sipping the exact same Kool Aid 

I would love to know how & why a backlock knife is so dangerous? 

I have cut myself many times, mostly as a child, and those were slipjoints, or a very memorable incident a rusty fixed blade bait knife on the beach.

Cuts from modern locking folders have been limited to:
- Incidents of stupidity like cutting biltong towards my thumb, the knife did not care that it had Spyderco's compression lock on, it just carried on with the business of cutting.
- Incidents of stupidity playing with a knife like it's a fidget toy,

Sorry if this offends, but simple logic tells me that a folding knife with a lock is better than without, and even if you do not have the manual dexterity to operate a knife one handed (or whatever), you can operate a locking knife two handed just like a slipjoint and use the advantage of the lock without any increased "danger" compared to a slipjoint.

I fail to see the "insanity", myself, but then again I've always lived in that (daily carry/specific need) two tier system. Back locks (certainly the ones I've ever used) tend to necessitate two hand closing, and putting your hand in the path of the blade, to generate the pressure to depress the backspring and release the blade. Most slippies can be closed safely, one handed. Also, once you've stopped putting pressure in the release area, the tang of the blade is under tension, much like with a slippy, but often greater on a backlock knife. I used to work in an oil rich environment, and that additional backspring force could have me lose control of the closing (or opening) and have the blade and or handle escape my grip. There's also been occasions when I've simply forgot, tried to close the blade like a slippy, and just knocked the blade out of my hand. Operator error, but it's gentler on the ego to blame the knife (it seems to work for people who injure themselves with slippies  ) Either way, I'd much rather use a fixed blade instead, which our "insane" laws let me do. To use some of your words, simple logic says it's better to use a fixed blade, than one that's just pretending to be fixed. I can do most tasks with a slippy, but if I want something stronger, I go straight to fixed. There is simply no category of task or scenario, where a locking folder would be the best tool for the job for me. There may well be for other people, but I don't live their life.

[cody6268]

I preferred slip joints, that's until I discovered the AXIS Lock. I can carry my Benchmade Mini Griptillian on my left side, open it with my left hand, and unlock and close it with my left-hand, all without having to brace it against my leg, as I do all lockbacks and right-handed linerlocks.

[nate j]

Certainly, a slippie and a fixed blade (or just a fixed blade by itself) could arguably cover the full spectrum of knife needs, without the requirement for a locking blade.

However, let us (independent of marketing hype) examine potential advantages of a locking blade.

Locking blade advantages vs. slip-joint:

• Provides some protection against use that might cause a folding knife to fold on the fingers
• Often provides one-hand opening capability

Locking blade advantages vs. fixed blade:

• No sheath required
• Easier to conceal
• Easier to carry
• More socially acceptable in some circles
• May be legal/approved to carry in some locations/locales where a fixed blade is not

I think locking knives have their place in the world today.  Like any other tool, their safe and effective use is dependent upon strength of design, quality of materials and build execution, knowledge and skill of the user, and degree of wear.

That said, if I could magically trade all of my locking blades for universal social and legal acceptance of fixed blade carry, I would make the trade.   

[VICMAN]

However, let us (independent of marketing hype) examine potential advantages of a locking blade.

I think locking knives have their place in the world today.  Like any other tool, their safe and effective use is dependent upon strength of design, quality of materials and build execution, knowledge and skill of the user, and degree of wear.

 

[Aloha]

 

[mikekoz]

   I would also logically assume that a knife with a lock would be less likely to bite its owner than one without. However, I can see where a blade from a back locked knife can close on a finger. No locking system is perfect and can fail, but no lock I would think would always fail if one is doing something with the knife that puts force in the wrong direction. On multitools, the lock is even more critical in some regards, especially driving screws or using pointed tools like an awl. Having these items slip can be just as painful as a blade! Like everybody else on this thread, just my opinion! 

[sak60]

That said, if I could magically trade all of my locking blades for universal social and legal acceptance of fixed blade carry, I would make the trade.   

 

[JBW1]

 

[Gerhard Gerber]

That said, if I could magically trade all of my locking blades for universal social and legal acceptance of fixed blade carry, I would make the trade.   

 

Can't argue with that! 

   I would also logically assume that a knife with a lock would be less likely to bite its owner than one without. However, I can see where a blade from a back locked knife can close on a finger.

With the brands and general quality of knife we discuss here, that would would be on the user, not the design or the knife.

Lock backs tend to snap shut, just like guess what........a good slipjoint.

[Aloha]

All folding knives have the "potential" to close on the finger, locks aside.   

All folding knives carry this ^^ potential and if one is negligent then thats on them IMO.  There is no safe knife folding or otherwise if the user is not careful.  Accidents are IMO a whole other topic and cannot be attributed to the knife.   

Believing any knife is safe when used without care to me is a user problem and not a problem of the knife.  Why blame the object?  We are not talking malfunctions or defective knifes as these are not accidents. 

If one has the belief that a locking knife cannot fail then they should be using a fixed blade.  Yes by terming it "locking" I get users will feel a level of security.  If downward cutting just like with a slip joint is applied then I cannot understand how a locking knife can fail?