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Victorinox in the 2020's: Realistic Possibilities

nz Offline Sawl Goodman

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Re: Victorinox in the 2020's: Realistic Possibilities
Reply #30 on: August 15, 2020, 03:58:26 AM
I would think that realistic possibilities would have to be in line with Victorinox's vision of itself. 

They just don't seem to invent new implements.  For that reason, I would eliminate the thought of any new implement just as a long combo tool or alteration in the in-line Phillips such that it fits in a typically sized layer.

As I had mentioned somewhere else, I would like to see expanded options in Cellidor scales, and a way to replace them as often as desired while retaining the warranty - i.e. have various colors/patterns and specialty scales available at retailers, and give the retailers the responsibility of changing them so the warranty is maintained.  I'd like to see specialty scales with more variety... Glow-in-the-dark, grips, metallic (faux Alox), Plus, LED lights, inch/cm rulers, pill boxes, RFID, hex wrench adapters, files, match strikers, name/engraving plates, and so many other things can be added to specialty scales. Make the Victorinox slogan... Companion for Life though all its changes. 

I'd like to see more options in three layer SAKs .... making that third layer the Mag-Philips, or the file.

It would require a redesign, but I too would like to see a mini Spirit that has a ruler on it.
Introducing new tools and leaning on retailers to carry stock that may be slow to move are radical changes, not realistic ones in my opinion. Sorry!
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us Offline cody6268

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Re: Victorinox in the 2020's: Realistic Possibilities
Reply #31 on: August 15, 2020, 04:08:28 AM
The problem with Vic is they don't innovate. Wenger did, and a lot of that same ingenuity continues in the ex-Wenger staff on Swiza's knife business. There's so much that they can be doing.

These are things that already exist, but need to be more widespread, or reintroduced. For the most part, these are models already being made, but just sold on a special order basis.

Rescue Tool with a wood saw. Already being made, and with the Italian Police version, has been sold to the public in limited numbers, by the Italian Victorinox distributor. I want a knife like my Fireman but can still handle extrication duties while still handling the outdoors jobs of my Fireman. No reason for this not to happen. Ruike is already making basically that.

84mm Hiker and Camper. The 84mm saw was reintroduced on the Walker (itself a reintroduction of the Lumberjack), now time to produce a lot of the models it came on back in the '60s and '70s. Not gonna happen because it will cut into Delemont sales.

Inline technician screwdriver. They used to do this a lot in the '60s and '70s, and on several models. The backside one just can't get at most terminal blocks on programmable logic controllers and many hobby wiring projects. Vic won't do this, as I bet it will cut into CyberTool sales. But, a modern Motorist with the newer, aggressive file would be awesome!

The newish "Parachute Knife" with curved OH belt cutter and Phillips. Should be inexpensive, and a good heavy-duty knife.  Sort of a "Rescue Tool Lightweight" if you will. And a good backup to non-serrated smaller SAKs with a corkscrew.

Given that well, the entire Delemont Collection is basically EVO scaled Wengers, why not a Pocket Toolchest? The tooling already exists, and I'm sure is in a back room in Jura.  Victorinox, when buying Wenger, seemed to keep the gimmicky Wenger stuff, while forgoing their unique stuff that actually worked. I know the MiniChamp has its fans, but the PTC is just so much more practical. And I own (and have extensively carried) both.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2020, 04:47:40 AM by cody6268 »


nz Offline Sawl Goodman

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Re: Victorinox in the 2020's: Realistic Possibilities
Reply #32 on: August 15, 2020, 04:11:00 AM
Talking about all those serrated blades: If serrated, i want the serrations from the GAK blade, not the pointed ones on some Wengers for example. That GAK blade is a beast and i want it on 91mm  :D (Non-OHO of course!)
I don't know about the GAK blade but the serrated Spartan's blade is just right. Serrations are spaced evenly, and unlike the vast majority of other manufacturers' blades they're much better suited for right handers.

I should add that I can get by plenty well without serrated blades. A sharp, toothy PE goes a long way. It's good to have the option though, say for a knife you can keep in the glovebox that's never going to see much sharpening. I've become completely enamored with my recent Spartan Wood arrival and would like a factory one with a serrated blade.
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nz Offline Sawl Goodman

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Re: Victorinox in the 2020's: Realistic Possibilities
Reply #33 on: August 15, 2020, 04:39:03 AM
Some mods I've seen here have been so creative and tightly focused that they could easily be official factory models for a particular user base. This one, for instance. Everything but the back scale is in current production.

https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,83197.msg2041587.html#msg2041587
Rambler


us Offline Barry Rowland

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Re: Victorinox in the 2020's: Realistic Possibilities
Reply #34 on: August 15, 2020, 04:48:15 AM
The saddest thing about Wenger getting bought out was losing that wonderful creativity.  You're so right Cody.
Barry


us Offline nate j

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Re: Victorinox in the 2020's: Realistic Possibilities
Reply #35 on: August 15, 2020, 08:34:54 AM
And I don't know how realistic this is, but a Swisstool mini and/or nano (read Juice/Squirt sized) would have my attention.
:iagree:

I'd buy one...or several  :D


gb Offline tosh

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Re: Victorinox in the 2020's: Realistic Possibilities
Reply #36 on: August 15, 2020, 09:44:07 AM
The saddest thing about Wenger getting bought out was losing that wonderful creativity. 

Perfectly summed up
If they were cars...

Victorinox would be Volkswagen - Reliable and cater for the masses  :tu:

Wenger would be Audi  :hatsoff: :clap:

(A perfectly apt analogy considering Volkswagen owns Audi)
« Last Edit: August 15, 2020, 09:54:49 AM by tosh »
I don't claim to know it all, but what I do know is right.


gb Offline tosh

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Re: Victorinox in the 2020's: Realistic Possibilities
Reply #37 on: August 15, 2020, 10:15:49 AM
The problem with Vic is they don't innovate. Wenger did, and a lot of that same ingenuity continues in the ex-Wenger staff on Swiza's knife business. There's so much that they can be doing.

These are things that already exist, but need to be more widespread, or reintroduced. For the most part, these are models already being made, but just sold on a special order basis.

Rescue Tool with a wood saw. Already being made, and with the Italian Police version, has been sold to the public in limited numbers, by the Italian Victorinox distributor. I want a knife like my Fireman but can still handle extrication duties while still handling the outdoors jobs of my Fireman. No reason for this not to happen. Ruike is already making basically that.

84mm Hiker and Camper. The 84mm saw was reintroduced on the Walker (itself a reintroduction of the Lumberjack), now time to produce a lot of the models it came on back in the '60s and '70s. Not gonna happen because it will cut into Delemont sales.

Inline technician screwdriver. They used to do this a lot in the '60s and '70s, and on several models. The backside one just can't get at most terminal blocks on programmable logic controllers and many hobby wiring projects. Vic won't do this, as I bet it will cut into CyberTool sales. But, a modern Motorist with the newer, aggressive file would be awesome!

The newish "Parachute Knife" with curved OH belt cutter and Phillips. Should be inexpensive, and a good heavy-duty knife.  Sort of a "Rescue Tool Lightweight" if you will. And a good backup to non-serrated smaller SAKs with a corkscrew.

Given that well, the entire Delemont Collection is basically EVO scaled Wengers, why not a Pocket Toolchest? The tooling already exists, and I'm sure is in a back room in Jura.  Victorinox, when buying Wenger, seemed to keep the gimmicky Wenger stuff, while forgoing their unique stuff that actually worked. I know the MiniChamp has its fans, but the PTC is just so much more practical. And I own (and have extensively carried) both.

Completely agree Cody
For me its was the blatant lies I struggle with. It was reported that Wenger agreed to the sale to Victorinox on condition that Victorinox kept all Wenger staff. Although the purchase cost was never revealed, it was supposedly far far below wengers brand worth.
Fact is I was in discussion with a Wenger member of staff via email on the day she and the entire office were notified they had all been made redundant, She did say that they had been told their jobs were safe, hence the agreed takeover by their main competitor.
You make of that what you will, personally I no longer buy this whole pure than the driven snow that Victorinox likes to portray itself. Fact is they are as ruthless as any other company that seeks, buys and shutsdown their main rival.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2020, 10:37:41 AM by tosh »
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pt Offline MacGyver

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Re: Victorinox in the 2020's: Realistic Possibilities
Reply #38 on: August 15, 2020, 03:41:11 PM
You make of that what you will, personally I no longer buy this whole pure than the driven snow that Victorinox likes to portray itself. Fact is they are as ruthless as any other company that seeks, buys and shutsdown their main rival.

 :iagree:

I've said here before, straight from the mouth of the head of the official Vic importer company in my country, quoting her: "Victorinox is not the company it used to be anymore. There are way too many ""sharp teeth people (AKA: Sharks)"" in high places around there these days. Many things and decisions would never happen in Carl Elsener Sr.'s days " 

I think this sums it all.....


She is from Switzerland, and knows all that very well, and visited the factory over the years hundreds of times, so it's a very reliable source IMO.
"Another Day...; a whole n'other set of fresh possibilities..." - MacGyver (S1E19 - "Slow Death")


us Offline Barry Rowland

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Re: Victorinox in the 2020's: Realistic Possibilities
Reply #39 on: August 15, 2020, 03:46:14 PM
Exactly!
Perfectly summed up
If they were cars...

Victorinox would be Volkswagen - Reliable and cater for the masses  :tu:

Wenger would be Audi  :hatsoff: :clap:

(A perfectly apt analogy considering Volkswagen owns Audi)
Barry


us Offline ElevenBlade

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Re: Victorinox in the 2020's: Realistic Possibilities
Reply #40 on: August 15, 2020, 05:26:54 PM
The problem with Vic is they don't innovate. Wenger did, and a lot of that same ingenuity continues in the ex-Wenger staff on Swiza's knife business. There's so much that they can be doing.

These are things that already exist, but need to be more widespread, or reintroduced. For the most part, these are models already being made, but just sold on a special order basis.

Rescue Tool with a wood saw. Already being made, and with the Italian Police version, has been sold to the public in limited numbers, by the Italian Victorinox distributor. I want a knife like my Fireman but can still handle extrication duties while still handling the outdoors jobs of my Fireman. No reason for this not to happen. Ruike is already making basically that.

84mm Hiker and Camper. The 84mm saw was reintroduced on the Walker (itself a reintroduction of the Lumberjack), now time to produce a lot of the models it came on back in the '60s and '70s. Not gonna happen because it will cut into Delemont sales.

Inline technician screwdriver. They used to do this a lot in the '60s and '70s, and on several models. The backside one just can't get at most terminal blocks on programmable logic controllers and many hobby wiring projects. Vic won't do this, as I bet it will cut into CyberTool sales. But, a modern Motorist with the newer, aggressive file would be awesome!

The newish "Parachute Knife" with curved OH belt cutter and Phillips. Should be inexpensive, and a good heavy-duty knife.  Sort of a "Rescue Tool Lightweight" if you will. And a good backup to non-serrated smaller SAKs with a corkscrew.

Given that well, the entire Delemont Collection is basically EVO scaled Wengers, why not a Pocket Toolchest? The tooling already exists, and I'm sure is in a back room in Jura.  Victorinox, when buying Wenger, seemed to keep the gimmicky Wenger stuff, while forgoing their unique stuff that actually worked. I know the MiniChamp has its fans, but the PTC is just so much more practical. And I own (and have extensively carried) both.

It seems like while there is a dizzying number of options on the Vic website to the untrained observer.... when you look at it through the magnifying lenses that you and I can line up in series.... Explorer, Champion, and SwissChamp all in a row..... you and I know that there are many more options that Vic can offer without making new implements.   In the 111mm size, there can be more options for people who use them for work and for outdoors... like the addition of a wood saw to a Rescue tool. 

While I am an avid scissor user... I don't really need one on a 111mm heavy duty workhorse  unless I insist on carrying one tool instead of two as I often do.  but to say the same thing with different words... If the 111mm specialty knives that one uses for work, can be combined with a saw that one uses for recreation can be combined in one tool... then why not?

 :tu:



cy Offline dks

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Re: Victorinox in the 2020's: Realistic Possibilities
Reply #41 on: August 15, 2020, 06:15:35 PM
VW and AUDI, VAG group, convicted for emissions cheating, just what we need in a knife company, possibly buying knockoff SAKs and branding them as genuine SAKs....
Kelly: "Daddy, what makes men cheat on women?
Al : "Women!"

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us Offline Barry Rowland

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Re: Victorinox in the 2020's: Realistic Possibilities
Reply #42 on: August 15, 2020, 06:17:52 PM
 :rofl: There's nothing that would surprise me anymore!
Barry


us Offline 39hotrod

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Re: Victorinox in the 2020's: Realistic Possibilities
Reply #43 on: August 15, 2020, 07:10:52 PM
 :iagree: :drink:
All who wander are not lost..

It only take a little bit of sharp..


gb Offline tosh

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Re: Victorinox in the 2020's: Realistic Possibilities
Reply #44 on: August 15, 2020, 08:19:03 PM


VW and AUDI, VAG group, convicted for emissions cheating, just what we need in a knife company, possibly buying knockoff SAKs and branding them as genuine SAKs....

Hmmm  :think:, it would certainly explain why Victorinox are so cheap these days in comparison to when I was a young lad.
 :whistle:

 :rofl:
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bavaria Offline Tomcat_81

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Re: Victorinox in the 2020's: Realistic Possibilities
Reply #45 on: August 15, 2020, 09:48:06 PM
    Back to the actual knives ;-)
    I'd love to see a couple of things:


    - Alox-like models with titanium scales;
    - More steel options for the main blades;
    - 111-models with metal scales
    - Bit-holders integrated into these scales (quite common in mods already!)

    I can't chime into the Wenger-nostalgia too much since I've always been a Vic-fan, but the Ueli Steck-Series still has a special place in my heart!

    Tomcat
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us Offline ElevenBlade

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Re: Victorinox in the 2020's: Realistic Possibilities
Reply #46 on: August 15, 2020, 10:29:26 PM
    Back to the actual knives ;-)
    I'd love to see a couple of things:


    - Alox-like models with titanium scales;
    - More steel options for the main blades;
    - 111-models with metal scales
    - Bit-holders integrated into these scales (quite common in mods already!)

I can't chime into the Wenger-nostalgia too much since I've always been a Vic-fan, but the Ueli Steck-Series still has a special place in my heart!

Tomcat
[/list]

Same.  though I never bought one when I had the chance... I always liked Wenger's innovation and collaboration with explorers and mountaineers, such as their Patagonia series.  It's a constant gripe I have with Victorinox - their user speciic tools are not as user specific as they can be.  What's a locksmith doing with a wood saw, and what on earth is an outrider doing with scissors?

RIP Ueli Steck 1976-2017


ca Offline Jazz

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Re: Victorinox in the 2020's: Realistic Possibilities
Reply #47 on: August 15, 2020, 11:34:46 PM
The current can opener/driver works so well in Philips screws, why do y’all want to change it? The combo tool sucks big time, is too thin, and has a heck of a time on thick cans. Not good for Philips either.


Offline cypher

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Re: Victorinox in the 2020's: Realistic Possibilities
Reply #48 on: August 16, 2020, 01:10:21 AM
- Alox/91mm models with two big blades similar to Case Canoe (why not if a traditional slipjoint can have 7 blades)
- hooks with file on all models with hooks
- all scales sold as plus scales (they can put a second toothpick in there maybe as cost reduction that may be upgraded to pen)
- reintroduction of nylon Ecoline scales
- more models with metal file instead of saw
- 108mm return?
- Yeoman
- phillips PH2 instead of small blade
- serrated main blades in standard production


pt Offline pfrsantos

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Re: Victorinox in the 2020's: Realistic Possibilities
Reply #49 on: August 16, 2020, 01:22:00 AM
:iagree:

I've said here before, straight from the mouth of the head of the official Vic importer company in my country, quoting her: "Victorinox is not the company it used to be anymore. There are way too many ""sharp teeth people (AKA: Sharks)"" in high places around there these days. Many things and decisions would never happen in Carl Elsener Sr.'s days " 

I think this sums it all.....


She is from Switzerland, and knows all that very well, and visited the factory over the years hundreds of times, so it's a very reliable source IMO.

I think I know who you're talking about. They're no longer the Victorinox representatives in Portugal...

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it Offline SirVicaLot

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Re: Victorinox in the 2020's: Realistic Possibilities
Reply #50 on: August 16, 2020, 02:03:54 AM
Same.  though I never bought one when I had the chance... I always liked Wenger's innovation and collaboration with explorers and mountaineers, such as their Patagonia series.  It's a constant gripe I have with Victorinox - their user speciic tools are not as user specific as they can be.  What's a locksmith doing with a wood saw, and what on earth is an outrider doing with scissors?

RIP Ueli Steck 1976-2017

Adjusting the hole in the door to fit the new lock?  :think: ;)


us Offline cody6268

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Re: Victorinox in the 2020's: Realistic Possibilities
Reply #51 on: August 16, 2020, 02:17:17 AM
Adjusting the hole in the door to fit the new lock?  :think: ;)

I view the Locksmith as a general handyman-centric SAK, for those who often carry a regular pair of pliers as a part of their EDC. Thus, a saw is gonna get a lot of use.


us Offline cody6268

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Re: Victorinox in the 2020's: Realistic Possibilities
Reply #52 on: August 16, 2020, 02:19:20 AM
- Alox/91mm models with two big blades similar to Case Canoe (why not if a traditional slipjoint can have 7 blades)
- hooks with file on all models with hooks
- all scales sold as plus scales (they can put a second toothpick in there maybe as cost reduction that may be upgraded to pen)
- reintroduction of nylon Ecoline scales
- more models with metal file instead of saw
- 108mm return?
- Yeoman
- phillips PH2 instead of small blade
- serrated main blades in standard production

A flat two-dimensional Phillips screwdriver also exists under Wenger, replacing the nailfile. Seen on LL Bean-exclusive models from the '80s-90s through 2000s. Since most Wenger with corkscrews lack the ability to fit a modern Phillips screw, my Swiss Sportsman sees a lot of use. With that in mind, it is another tool from Wenger that has yet to see any use in the Delemont collection lineup.


us Offline ElevenBlade

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Re: Victorinox in the 2020's: Realistic Possibilities
Reply #53 on: August 16, 2020, 02:33:25 AM
Adjusting the hole in the door to fit the new lock?  :think: ;)

I was afraid that was the correct answer after I typed that.   :facepalm:


us Offline cody6268

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Re: Victorinox in the 2020's: Realistic Possibilities
Reply #54 on: August 16, 2020, 02:45:12 AM
It seems like while there is a dizzying number of options on the Vic website to the untrained observer.... when you look at it through the magnifying lenses that you and I can line up in series.... Explorer, Champion, and SwissChamp all in a row..... you and I know that there are many more options that Vic can offer without making new implements.   In the 111mm size, there can be more options for people who use them for work and for outdoors... like the addition of a wood saw to a Rescue tool. 

While I am an avid scissor user... I don't really need one on a 111mm heavy duty workhorse  unless I insist on carrying one tool instead of two as I often do.  but to say the same thing with different words... If the 111mm specialty knives that one uses for work, can be combined with a saw that one uses for recreation can be combined in one tool... then why not?

 :tu:



And when you put in options made for certain military customers and large distributors/dealers and the like; it's even a larger selection. There's the Malaysian Army Outrider (Phillips replacing CS), the Dutch Army Dual Pro (now I will admit, this is one that shows up on the secondary market regularly), and supposedly a version of the Champion made for Nigerian military in which the pruner blade replaces the pen blade. In my opinion, it is definitely more capable that way.

Now I will say, certain models like the STGW-90 sight tools, both from Vic and Wenger, probably don't need to be regular catalog items. Really specialty tool, with use only to those who own/use the rifle regularly (which is very few outside the Swiss Army) They just won't sell, as most I know that shoot automatic rifles have M4 or AR-15 based builds; or even the AK or SKS.


00 Offline SAKTaschenmesser

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Re: Victorinox in the 2020's: Realistic Possibilities
Reply #55 on: August 16, 2020, 03:34:32 PM
If possible for Victorinox to introduce a new line based off 91mm Waiter Plus so that all current production models are always 1 layer thinner, for example, a 3-layer Huntsman instead of the current Huntsman.

Just this week, a family member asked me for a three-layer Huntsman.



us Offline ElevenBlade

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Re: Victorinox in the 2020's: Realistic Possibilities
Reply #56 on: August 16, 2020, 04:14:15 PM
Just this week, a family member asked me for a three-layer Huntsman.

(Image removed from quote.)

Or a Lumberjack-Voyageur, as it were


pt Offline MacGyver

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Re: Victorinox in the 2020's: Realistic Possibilities
Reply #57 on: August 17, 2020, 09:47:40 AM
I think I know who you're talking about. They're no longer the Victorinox representatives in Portugal...

huuh???? What are you talking about, of course there are, the same as it always been, Cut.

http://www.cut.com.pt/

They are the oficial importers and representatives of Victorinox in Portugal. Have been for decades.
Every single Vic product sold in Portugal (mainland and islands) goes through there, and into the stores.
Mind you, they are not a store, they don't sell to the general public. They import them into the country to feed that national retail market, and represent Vic, as well as Opinel, Maglite, and some other brands.

I buy parts there at factory prices sometimes, because they sell those, and only those to a number of people, exceptionally.  I buy there cause i had some connections, and i've established some trust with them one time i was trying to send a Sak to Vic for repairs. But even still, i try not to push it with the amounts i buy, cause they can stop selling to me at any time if they want.
Very nice group of people there, and have an amazing SAK collection. I think i've posted some pics i took there one time ,a couple of years ago.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2020, 11:32:15 AM by MacGyver »
"Another Day...; a whole n'other set of fresh possibilities..." - MacGyver (S1E19 - "Slow Death")


gb Offline tosh

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Re: Victorinox in the 2020's: Realistic Possibilities
Reply #58 on: August 17, 2020, 10:31:08 AM
Well my Farmer X arrived Friday.............................. :dunno:

I don't claim to know it all, but what I do know is right.


Offline tim

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Re: Victorinox in the 2020's: Realistic Possibilities
Reply #59 on: August 19, 2020, 12:43:33 AM
There's room for some more minimalist knives, beyond the ubiquitous Spartan.  For example, the cheese-knife (two long blades and a corkscrew) in 91mm form would be just enough for a civilised hilltop picnic.  The discontinued Apprentice was a single-layer alox with standard blade and short sheepsfoot blade (with a straight cutting edge), and it's the perfect knife for a home workshop. 

The do-everything tools have their place, but most of the time you're better off with simpler and more speSmurfpillsed tools.  On the rare occasion I actually need (say) a screwdriver when I'm out in the hills, there's a good chance the Victorinox screwdriver won't do the job anyway.



 

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