Do most knives need points?

[SgtTowser]

After carrying a square ended coping blade knife for two weeks, I asked myself: do most knives need points?

I literally cut EVERYTHING with my square ender that I used to cut with my pointed knives.

EV. ERY. THING.

The only thing I cannot do with my square ender is quickly stab some thing, or some one else, but mercifully I have not needed to do that the last few weeks.

And if I did need to self-defend, instead of run like hell, I reckon a slashing stroke might actually do more to disable the arm, leg, eyes, or neck of an opponent than a stab, but I’m no expert.

Let me concede that for a fighting knife a point makes sense, since the more ways a knife has to disable an opponent the better. Heck, having a Glock welded to a fighting knife might be a swell added advantage.

I can also see a point on a game cleaning knife. Ya gotta start the skinning somewhere, after all.

But for EDC and most food prep, and work knives, what is the point of a point?

Every puncture cut I make in EDC, kitchen food processing, and work knife usage I can make more easily and effectively with a slash/draw motion.

And every knife-phile says solemnly, “Never use your knife, especially the point, as a pry bar!

So why the hell are the vast majority of non fighting and skinning knives pointed?

Is this some kind of vestigial absurdity found  in both traditional patterns AND modern flippers?

I fear so.

It seems to come down to aesthetics and fear of attack even in some countries that license concealed carry of handguns.

Go figure.

The human eye seems to appreciate a pointy knife more than a square one.

Go figure, again.

And for those that say oh, but I need my point to work my blade edge  in under this or that thing before cutting, I say, well, I just spent two weeks doing that easily with my square ender.

(Note: don’t call it a cleaver. It’s a coping blade.)

Because I am now a recently half recovering orthodox pointy knife aficionado, I want everyone to know I still have pointy knife yearnings. I prefer the way they look. I know how you feel.

And I have the little voice on my shoulder whispering, “You need your pointy knife in case you are surprise attacked  by and have to stab a mountain lion, or a bad guy...if you are lucky enough to survive the surprise.”

But the other voice on the other shoulder is saying, “Forget those pointy knives, pal. They squander the cutting power of a third or a quarter of a blade by curving away from whatever you are cutting. All for a little rocking cut flexibility and maybe a stab when you can’t avoid a combat zone. Otherwise, a little flat and a little belly is just turning a 3.5 inch archetypal blade myth into a 2.75 inch cutting tool.”

But I need my point fix BAD sometimes, I say out loud to myself.

I need the aesthetics of curvature out to a breakable, bendable point, and feel a certain wire mother attraction to a stabby point, even though street fight probability is an extreme right tail event that a fire arm makes more sense as preparation for.

Obviously I am deeply conflicted, as are others. And as are knife makers.

Business men that normally like efficiency in production (the cheap smurfs will substitute nylon washers for phosphor bronze to save a few pennies!) are going to the trouble of grinding off a whole bunch of freaking blade stock to points that are neither necessary, nor even optimally  functional in non fighting and non game cleaning knives.

Think how much farther blade stock could go if every pointy blade were shortened to the spot where the belly begins, or all that machining off to a point were skipped and you got a real 3.5 inch straight edge to drag across the thing to be cut.

As my eye prefers a point, while my head knows the point is arguably an ornamental underutilization in 99 percent of knife usage, I seek more experience to escape the tug of war between my eye and mind. Also, I would like to hear from others about point vs no point.

So: I have decided to EDC a contempo flipper knife with a broken off point I found in a thrift store for an over priced buck and change.I will carry it  for a few weeks and test if I miss the point of a typical budget flipper. It is a humble, absurdly tactical and machine funk looking  Magnum by Boker that started life as somewhere around a 3.5 inch blade before some kind of abuse/misuse made it suddenly a legal knife in 3” jurisdictions. It is the knife pictured. I will sharpen it on a DMT Steel a bit and report back in a week, or so, whether or not the missing point significantly hampered my cutting needs with a 440 mystery steel flipper moderne.

Kirk out.

[SteveC]

Points can come in handy for a lot of things, digging out a splinter for instance .

[SgtTowser]

Points can come in handy for a lot of things, digging out a splinter for instance .

Yes, but...my SAK has a pin and tweezers.  So: I’ve never been tempted to use one of the knife points instead for splinters.

[gregozedobe]

I agree that I don't use the point to stab anything very often, but I prefer the curved edge leading to the point.  If the cutting surface is completely flat then when I am cutting on a hard surface with most knives I often end up doing a lot of cutting on the very tip (or mashing my knuckles on the hard surface), rather than spreading the cutting along more of the edge.  If the blade is very deep (top to bottom) it works OK, but most of the knives I use are not.

One time I do use the pointy tip is to start a cut to get through the hard outer skin of a passionfruit, just slicing doesn't seem to work as well.

[cody6268]

Sheepsfoot/Lambsfoot for the win. You have a blade that is impossible to accidentally poke something, while still having a point when you need it. I don't like any belly at all in a one-bladed knife, so they are my favorite blade style.

I have had blunt and completely rounded tip knives, both SAKs intended for kids, and knives intended for paramedics to quickly remove heavily clothing, and they were horrible for EDC use.

[nate j]

I think the ideal thing is to carry several different knives, or one knife with multiple blades, so that all bases are covered.  However, if I had to pick just one, I feel a pointy knife is more versatile than a non-pointy knife.  The point comes in handy for things like splinters (as Steve pointed out), and also for making the initial penetrating cut on everything from fruit (as Greg noted) to blister or vacuum packs.  A pointed knife is also better for sliding the point under something that is cinched or tied tightly (cable ties, rope, paracord, string, hospital or carnival bracelets, etc.) and cutting it off without damaging what it is tied to or cinched around.

Personally, all other things being equal, I believe a blade with a curved cutting edge is more effective at the efficient draw cut than a blade with a straight cutting edge.

Finally, I note that even coping blades and sheepsfoot blades have points, thought they are typically less acute than those found on clip, spear, and drop point blades.

[dks]

I do find the points useful in starting a cut in packaging (crisps, charcoal  bags, meat packs etc. )
Poke it through then slice the packaging open.

[comis]

I could think of a few reasons why someone may prefer a drop point over a sheepfoot/wharncliffe, though I do prefer sheepfoot on a slip joint when I need to make a punctuating cut.

1) To make a small divot, though one could argue a sheepfoot probably could do it as well, just not as good.

2) The drop point has a belly where a sheepfoot don't(a very mild belly on wharncliffe, but depending on design).  This comes in handy, especially on dinner table.

3) Minimize footprint and chassis height.  For something like Victorinox, the drop point avoids all the pins/spacer below the blade, while minimize how much blade protruding from the top of the chassis.  Most sheepfoot blades would stick out of chassis based on design, but the upside is it's easy to pinch open.

[Shuya]

Hi,

I use my knife point almost every day.

For precise cuts and preparing food, for small mundane tasks (cleaning fingernails  ), whittling...
I probably could come by with a sheepfood blade, but as an allround utility blade a dropppoint or other types are more usefull.
Most likely a good EDC would be a two bladed version like a Jack pattern or adding a small spearpoint blade to a large wharncliffe (never seen this pattern made nowadays).

Source: My Case Trapper. Carry it regularly. The Clippoint sees 99,9% of usage and is regularly sharpened and heavily scratched. The Sprey Blade...well. Stropped factory grind with nearly unscratched finish. Thinking about cutting the sprey blade into a half or 2/3s lenth sheelfood.

May be different if I had to use the knife jobwise (just a desk guy using his knifes on the outdoors a lot).

[Sea Monster]

A possible "worst of both worlds" options might be a "full size" spey blade (not sure how many are on the market as solo folders)

predominately flat edge, short sharp curve to the belly, and a not pointed and not flat tip.

Whatever camp you're in, it's sure to have something to offend you 

Not exactly what I had in mind, but I was curious if any "tactical" blade marques used the style...the closest I found without much effort was these two by CRKT

https://www.crkt.com/shop/everyday-carry-knives/radic.html
https://www.crkt.com/shop/everyday-carry-knives/montosa.html

[pfrsantos]

You don't awlways have a tooth pick at hand or some piece of wood you can make one out of.

Next question.

 

[Etherealicer]

There are IMO 2 reasons to not have a point
- If your knife is intended for prying (see border-guard dagger attached)
- Avoid accidental stabbing (often seen in sailor knives, knives for children and rescue blades)

Since I try to avoid prying with my knife, and I'm neither a child nor a sailor I prefer having a point as it has so much utility.

[Chako]

 

Just wanted to say...I see your point!

[Aloha]

Having pointy and less pointy I concur. 

[SgtTowser]

If the cutting surface is completely flat then when I am cutting on a hard surface with most knives I often end up doing a lot of cutting on the very tip (or mashing my knuckles on the hard surface), rather than spreading the cutting along more of the edge.  If the blade is very deep (top to bottom) it works OK, but most of the knives I use are not.

One time I do use the pointy tip is to start a cut to get through the hard outer skin of a passionfruit, just slicing doesn't seem to work as well.

Gentlemen, ladies, et al., of the jury, these seem like valid evidence.

[SgtTowser]

Sheepsfoot/Lambsfoot for the win. You have a blade that is impossible to accidentally poke something, while still having a point when you need it. I don't like any belly at all in a one-bladed knife, so they are my favorite blade style.

I have had blunt and completely rounded tip knives, both SAKs intended for kids, and knives intended for paramedics to quickly remove heavily clothing, and they were horrible for EDC use.

Deduction: Since my coping blade meets my edc needs and square Enders have abysmally failed to meet yours, our opportunity set of cutting must vary.

For what it is worth, I have carried a Case swayback wharncliffe pattern and found it so pointed as to offer nearly the same accidental puncturing as clips, etc.,  while working, plus the wharnie spine curvature just seemed guarantied to make it fold on to my fingers when used with a stabbing motion. I like the look of wharnies but need a lock to enjoy them.

[gregozedobe]

This discussion shows how different requirements lead to different solutions.  None are "wrong" in any objective sense.  ETTO and all that yet again....

[SgtTowser]

I think the ideal thing is to carry several different knives, or one knife with multiple blades, so that all bases are covered.  However, if I had to pick just one, I feel a pointy knife is more versatile than a non-pointy knife.  The point comes in handy for things like splinters (as Steve pointed out), and also for making the initial penetrating cut on everything from fruit (as Greg noted) to blister or vacuum packs.  A pointed knife is also better for sliding the point under something that is cinched or tied tightly (cable ties, rope, paracord, string, hospital or carnival bracelets, etc.) and cutting it off without damaging what it is tied to or cinched around.

Personally, all other things being equal, I believe a blade with a curved cutting edge is more effective at the efficient draw cut than a blade with a straight cutting edge.

Finally, I note that even coping blades and sheepsfoot blades have points, thought they are typically less acute than those found on clip, spear, and drop point blades.

I agree, if I need both  EDC cutting and tactical/game cleaning, but I just don’t use the belly except in a kitchen. And anyone can snag a dozen varieties of kitchen knives superior to a pocket knife for kitchen use at a dollar a knife.

[SgtTowser]

There are IMO 2 reasons to not have a point
- If your knife is intended for prying (see border-guard dagger attached)
- Avoid accidental stabbing (often seen in sailor knives, knives for children and rescue blades)

Since I try to avoid prying with my knife, and I'm neither a child nor a sailor I prefer having a point as it has so much utility.

Could you be specific about the abundant uses of the point. I am not sceptical. I am trying to get the uses of knife points inventoried.

[SgtTowser]

Just wanted to say...I see your point!

A pointed remark! 😀

[SgtTowser]

Having pointy and less pointy I concur.

Concurrence has its good points.

[Chako]

 

Different blades for different jobs.

[nate j]

And anyone can snag a dozen varieties of kitchen knives superior to a pocket knife for kitchen use at a dollar a knife.

That is true.  Personally, though, using pocket knives on food isn't something I generally do in my own kitchen.  Rather, it is something I do when I'm out and about, hiking, camping, at fairs or festivals, etc., and in those cases it is much more convenient for me to be carrying a pocket knife that also works for food than to also carry a dedicated kitchen/food knife.

[Etherealicer]

Could you be specific about the abundant uses of the point. I am not sceptical. I am trying to get the uses of knife points inventoried.

- Fine tip used to slide into the lock of a zip-tie
- when your knife is not that sharp anymore it is great to start a cut, e.g. cut a tomato while hiking and not wanting to eat ketchup.
- pinch the blade at the tip to open packages without cutting deep. While you can do it with the edge, it is much easier to restrict the depth by pinching the tip.
- use as "awl"
- puncture stuff (e.g. juice box, so that there is air going in when the straw seals too tight)
- papercrafting

[ElevenBlade]

Funnily enough, I just thought about this not even an hour ago, in the kitchen.    I've been a spear point fan for years, but also being a slipjoint fan, I never stab into anything.   Even my folding hunter is a drop point, and not very stabby. 

Enter, my kitchen....

Meet the characters -
New box of pasta.
Opinel No.10  Locked open at the ready

To open the pasta, I just stabbed the clip point straight through the top of the box and chopped it off like a pirate or something.  it was fun and efficient. 

I immediately looked to see if the locking EvoGrip in yellow comes with a corkcrew on the Victorinox website   

[cbl51]

Sheepsfoot/Lambsfoot for the win. You have a blade that is impossible to accidentally poke something, while still having a point when you need it. I don't like any belly at all in a one-bladed knife, so they are my favorite blade style.

I have had blunt and completely rounded tip knives, both SAKs intended for kids, and knives intended for paramedics to quickly remove heavily clothing, and they were horrible for EDC use.

THIS!!!

My two favorite pocket knives don't have a pointy blade. My Christy knife that is a modified wharcliff, and my Victorinox florist knife, also called a garden knife. Man years ago when I had a Buck 301 stockman that was my main EDC for 25 years, the most used blade was the shepfoot. Way way back, I carried a Camillus rigging/sailor knife with one heavy duty sheep foot blade and a marlin spike. That shepfoot blade did everything needed.

Look at the worlds most heavy used knife on any construction site, home improvement site, industrial plant; the old Stanley 99 and whatever knock offs there are. That little one inch slanty sheep foot blade does more work world wide than any other blade style.

[ElevenBlade]

Sheepsfoot/Lambsfoot for the win. You have a blade that is impossible to accidentally poke something, while still having a point when you need it. I don't like any belly at all in a one-bladed knife, so they are my favorite blade style.

I have had blunt and completely rounded tip knives, both SAKs intended for kids, and knives intended for paramedics to quickly remove heavily clothing, and they were horrible for EDC use.

I agree that I don't use the point to stab anything very often, but I prefer the curved edge leading to the point.  If the cutting surface is completely flat then when I am cutting on a hard surface with most knives I often end up doing a lot of cutting on the very tip (or mashing my knuckles on the hard surface), rather than spreading the cutting along more of the edge.  If the blade is very deep (top to bottom) it works OK, but most of the knives I use are not.

One time I do use the pointy tip is to start a cut to get through the hard outer skin of a passionfruit, just slicing doesn't seem to work as well.

Maybe 20 years ago, I bought a couple of junky wharncliffe blades, since the most important what-if scenario in my mind was "rescue".  As mentioned, these were complete rubbish for EDC.  Then for a couple of years I carried a tanto point blade, thinking that the flat edge could be used to tighten screws (spoiler alert - it couldn't because it would cam out right away).  The lack of a belly on this style of knife is what made it quite useless for EDC, 

I swore off anything except for a drop point or spear point, after realizing I prefer my drop point folding hunter over the clip point. 

I got a Gerber with a sheepfoot blade last week... and I'm still  about how I talked myself into that. 

[Adam5]

For me, a sheepsfoot blade is almost ideal for EDC. But that is due to my most frequent use for a knife: stripping the outer sheath off of non-metallic cable (Romex, SE cable). A pronounced belly is a hinderance. I was very excited when I saw the blade above, and I keep reaching for that MT seen above every few days due to that blade's utility to me.

However, I do wish there was a drop point blade paired with the sheepsfoot. A point comes in handy sometimes.

[SgtTowser]

- Fine tip used to slide into the lock of a zip-tie
- when your knife is not that sharp anymore it is great to start a cut, e.g. cut a tomato while hiking and not wanting to eat ketchup.
- pinch the blade at the tip to open packages without cutting deep. While you can do it with the edge, it is much easier to restrict the depth by pinching the tip.
- use as "awl"
- puncture stuff (e.g. juice box, so that there is air going in when the straw seals too tight)
- papercrafting

Interesting list. Thank you for taking the time.

[SgtTowser]

THIS!!!

My two favorite pocket knives don't have a pointy blade. My Christy knife that is a modified wharcliff, and my Victorinox florist knife, also called a garden knife. Man years ago when I had a Buck 301 stockman that was my main EDC for 25 years, the most used blade was the shepfoot. Way way back, I carried a Camillus rigging/sailor knife with one heavy duty sheep foot blade and a marlin spike. That shepfoot blade did everything needed.

Look at the worlds most heavy used knife on any construction site, home improvement site, industrial plant; the old Stanley 99 and whatever knock offs there are. That little one inch slanty sheep foot blade does more work world wide than any other blade style.

Great recall on the Stanley 99! It is a baseline. Have any of the leading knife reviewers EVER reviewed it?