Why can't Victorinox manage to make a sensible multi-tool nowadays?

[MacGyver]

Just an opinion about what was stated in the initial post/topic:

IMO the word "sensible" does not fit in the same sentence with "locking blade".....

A locking blade is the first step to get your MT or SAK frown upon by either co-workers, or more importantly the authorities, making that SAK/MT be forbidden to carry (EDC/casual carry) without a very good justification for doing so, as it may be considered a weapon.

Nevertheless, even if i disagree with some opinions on the topic, thankyou for opening this great discussion 
These are the kind of topics that really get my "juice's" running here on the forum 

[Steelej1976]

This goes to show how everyone is different, and have different needs/uses even if we share similar interests/passions, in this case SAK's/Tools 

I'm completely the opposite in all the sentences above... 

I'm the guy that does value doing things for myself. I'd much rather do/fix things myself, and researching and learning to do so than having to pay someone do the job for me. The exception being stuff that has gas or any king of flaming substances in the system, in that i rather have someone who was trained and experienced to handle those.

I'm way more interested (and exited by) being able to repair my own washing machine (and have done so), even if there's nobody watching, than be the hero of the party cause i opened a bottle of wine with a corkscrew that nobody remembered to bring along... 

and the ability to fix (and tinker with) things is about 70% of the reason why i carry a SAK

 

I have to agree with MacGyver, I carry a SAK to fix things.  Nothing wrong with being the hero of the party but fixing my washing machine is way more satisfying and I like saving money.

To the OP I can understand the frustration with SAK tool combinations out there.  I am very happy with my Swiss Army Climber the only thing I wish it had was a lock for the main blade but I don't care for the lock on the S-series of knives.  I wish Victorinox could incorporate a lockback into the Climber somehow.  That being said I treat all my knives as slip joints no matter what so it isn't a huge deal for me. 

[ElevenBlade]

Nevertheless, even if i disagree with some opinions on the topic, thankyou for opening this great discussion 
These are the kind of topics that really get my "juice's" running here on the forum 

 

[Rich_SD]

Mate, no offense.... but you clearly have no idea of what you are talking about here.... If nothing else, the function of the cork it's not just to prevent the wine from leaking... But i'm nowhere near being an expert or even a wine drinker... If you want real experts info and opinion on the importance of the cork for a proper aged wine there are plenty of sites with lots of info. 
 

Uh, I never said the cork is "just to prevent it from leaking".  Also, most wine isn't aged in the bottle as you suggest.

Twist caps keep the air out of the bottle better and over a longer time than corks. I know this because I am a wine drinker and I have visited many wineries in my lifetime and have been told this buy people that work there.  But suit yourself.

[MacGyver]

Uh, I never said the cork is "just to prevent it from leaking".  Also, most wine isn't aged in the bottle as you suggest.

Twist caps keep the air out of the bottle better and over a longer time than corks. I know this because I am a wine drinker and I have visited many wineries in my lifetime and have been told this buy people that work there.  But suit yourself.

Of course the wine isn't aged (primarily) in the bottle. It's aged in oak barrels. But when it's put in the bottle it will continue to age as cork doesn't fully seal outside air, and that's the whole point, those minute air exchanges is what gives the different wines their unique characteristics, as well as increased longevity. It obviously depends on what kind of wine you are aiming for, and for how long you want to keep it in the bottle in storage.
I'm not a wine drinker, but i'm from a country that makes some of the word's finest wines, so i've learned a thing of two over the years, from people that have been making fine wine for centuries..., not to mention over 50% of all the world's "wine cork" production 

[Jothra]

Cork, screw top... it's too complicated for me. I usually just use a hammer and go through the bottom.

[MacGyver]

Cork, screw top... it's too complicated for me. I usually just use a hammer and go through the bottom.

 

[Rich_SD]

not to mention over 50% of all the world's "wine cork" production 

Ah, that explains it.

Anyway, I can choose to either believe the wineries I visit or someone on the internet that comes out of the gate with "you clearly have no idea of what you are talking about here". 

[MacGyver]

Ah, that explains it.

Anyway, I can choose to either believe the wineries I visit or someone on the internet that comes out of the gate with "you clearly have no idea of what you are talking about here". 

By all means believe what you choose to, of course. I'm not disputing the other solutions are incorrect for wine, nevertheless it depends on what type of wine you are aiming for. And my quote was about you implying that: "screwcaps seal wine and air better = better solution overall" or "some wine makers only use cork because of cultural factors", both of which are not really that true....
I've been around wine and wine makers since i was born, some of which in my family, so i'm not just "coming out of the gate"...

Just out of curiosity, try and find out how many brands of fine Champagne for example use screw on caps, or other types of non cork for that matter...

[Jothra]

Have you guys tried Google? I used Duck Duck Go instead, but I'm learning all sorts of cool stuff about sealing wine bottles.

[Top-Gear-24]

Of all the ways this topic could've gone wrong, I would never have guessed it would be about cork or screwcaps.. 

But please, don't mind me  .

[ElevenBlade]

Does anyone have good results with pulling a cork using a Vic can opener?

In case I have an Alox on me 

[Altis]

Does anyone have good results with pulling a cork using a Vic can opener?

In case I have an Alox on me 

You must have skipped this Felix video 

Method 3  (click photo to go to his video) Main blade is awl you need 

[ElevenBlade]

You must have skipped this Felix video 

Method 3  (click photo to go to his video) Main blade is awl you need 

 

Problem solved!  I saw the video and forgot about it....    But I'm glad you linked to his videos because he posted a VERY interesting one 3 days ago.   

[Altis]

I'm the guy that does value doing things for myself. I'd much rather do/fix things myself, and researching and learning to do so than having to pay someone do the job for me. The exception being stuff that has gas or any king of flaming substances in the system, in that i rather have someone who was trained and experienced to handle those.

I'm way more interested (and exited by) being able to repair my own washing machine (and have done so), even if there's nobody watching, than be the hero of the party cause i opened a bottle of wine with a corkscrew that nobody remembered to bring along... 

and the ability to fix (and tinker with) things is about 70% of the reason why i carry a SAK

I fully agree with the sentiment, but I will say that my personal priority of SAK carries are to resolve things on the go (rather than at home). I haven't yet had to repair my appliances where they weren't at home with my full tool sets (though the way the washing machine goes sometimes, I fully expect it to take off) 

This means fixing things when not at home, but it also means dealing with everything else I need to do, such as fixing glasses, undoing knots, trimming threads, replacing batteries, tightening parts, opening food and packages, etc... Sometimes it's only these types of tasks I expect to encounter (such as at a social gathering), while other days I expect to work on things more (ie. at work). Some people may only fall into one type of use... hence so many different SAK options. 

So there's really no right answer about the corkscrew as everyone will view this in their own way. I rarely drink wine (and never on the go) but I do sometimes need the micro screwdriver and to undo knots, and even as a general strong small spike. The only given alternative is the T-Phillips, which I do like but many feel it is inadequate given the clearance required and potential for lack of strength, and the ability for the can opener to work pretty effectively on the same screws without these issues.

It's certainly great that we have options. Just look how much we struggle to come up with top 10 SAKs, let alone top 5, or top 1 

[Syncop8r]

Of all the ways this topic could've gone wrong, I would never have guessed it would be about cork or screwcaps.. 

I think it started with

no offense.... but

[Fireman]

Of all the ways this topic could've gone wrong, I would never have guessed it would be about cork or screwcaps.. 

No one expects the corkscrew inquisition.

[Echotech]

[Syncop8r]

No one expects the corkscrew inquisition.

You could say it's a twist in the tale.

[ElevenBlade]

No one expects the corkscrew inquisition.

 

[nate j]

(takes a deep breath and seals the helmet on his flame suit)

It's not that complicated. 12 tools total:

Four cutting tools: A plain-edged knife (preferably with a locking blade), a large metal file/metal saw, a large wood saw (not something I personally use often, but it's nice to have), and a pair of scissors.

Four driver tools: A narrow phillips-head screwdriver, a narrow flathead screwdriver, a bit driver for driving larger screws and specialty screws, and a spare bit holder.

Three opener tools: A bottle opener, a can opener, and a prybar to save the knife blade from getting damaged.

And lastly, a slide-out pen for those times when you need to write something down and nobody else has a pen.

Victorinox can never seem to hit on this combination of tools; either they leave-out one or more of them in an otherwise-sensible configuration, or they include all of them plus a bunch of other tools that are either highly specialized or useless: A mostly-useless pair of tiny pliers, an entirely-useless tiny nut wrench, a plastic magnifying glass that will get broken the first time the tool is dropped, a package-carrying hook that will never get used because nobody ties strings around packages anymore, a compass that doesn't read accurately because it's 2 inches away from a big block of steel tools, a fish-gutting knife, a fish-scaling knife, a fishing-hook remover, a seatbelt cutter, a marlin-spike for knitting marine ropes together, a freaking corkscrew like I'm living in 18th-century Europe, etc. etc. etc.

It's maddening. Yes, everyone's needs are slightly different, but most people will fairly frequently need the tools I mentioned at the beginning, as you can easily see when you look at used Swiss Army knives on eBay and look at which tools tend to be worn-out. And yes, some of the tools (such as the fishing and emergency-response tools) are genuinely useful, but are best packaged into specialty tools designed for specific markets. For the average buyer, Victorinox could cut 3/4 of their model lineup (and save a lot of money in the process) if they would just make a Swiss Army Knife with all of the tools I listed at the beginning and nothing else to waste space and increase weight.

It's like Victorinox is intentionally avoiding making a tool like this, and I can't figure out why. Most of their customers are not collectors and they're not going to be losing money overall by simplifying their product lineup. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they increased sales by making a multitool that doesn't have anything the average person would look at and think "I'm never gonna use that".

The closest they come to meeting my requirements are the CyberTool L, the Ranger, and the Locksmith, but they all have problems. The Locksmith doesn't have scissors and is a little too large for all-day in-pocket carry, the CyberTool L has tiny useless pliers that take up two slots of space, and the CyberTool L and Ranger both have corkscrews instead of phillips-head screwdrivers, and four different sizes of flathead screwdrivers, and a package hook. You might say the CyberTool L doesn't need a phillips-head screwdriver anyway because it has the bit driver and spare bit holder, but then why does it have four flathead screwdrivers? It's like Victorinox specs their builds using a random-number generator.

I have their SwissTool X -- it's a great butterfly-style multitool that has just the tools I actually use (all of which are accessible without unfolding the pliers, no less!), but it's also a big heavy mofo and not suitable for carrying in my pocket when I'm walking around an office building. It shouldn't be impossible to get a Swiss Army knife with pocket-friendly rounded corners, coworker-friendly "no I'm not a doomsday prepper or wannabe-ninja" plastic scales on the sides, and a complete set of useful everyday tools without extra garbage to weigh down my pocket.

I realize complaints like this have probably been posted many times over the years, but dammit, I needed to vent. I feel a little better now.

Now that you’ve taken in the plunge into modding, it seems all you need to do is buy a Cybertool L, remove the pliers, swap the corkscrew for the backside Philips if you wish (although I’d argue the backside Philips gains you nothing in a model that already has the bit driver, while the corkscrew makes the tool more versatile).

As an aside, I would note that your “perfect” tool would need to have at least six layers, possibly more.  While some folks happily carry tools that large every day, many others would consider that too large for regular carry.

[Simon_Templar]

I think it started with  "no offense.... but"

Isn't that how every lively discussion starts? Alternatively, one can open with "with all due respect, ..."   

[Simon_Templar]

I'm way more interested (and exited by) being able to repair my own washing machine (and have done so), even if there's nobody watching, than be the hero of the party cause i opened a bottle of wine with a corkscrew that nobody remembered to bring along... 

 

...that's how one doesn't get invited to parties... 

[MacGyver]

...that's how one doesn't get invited to parties... 

LOL...
If they only invite me to parties to serve as a waiter opening  bottles of wine, i'll pass, thank you... 

[Nix]

I love my Vic corkscrews. And the pliers. If only they made a sensible tool like a Climber Deluxe.... Until then, I'm stuck with the Ranger Deluxe (aka Handyman). 

[MacGyver]

I love my Vic corkscrews. And the pliers. If only they made a sensible tool like a Climber Deluxe....

 

[SteveP]

I love my Vic corkscrews. And the pliers. If only they made a sensible tool like a Climber Deluxe.... Until then, I'm stuck with the Ranger Deluxe (aka Handyman).

Nix, if you're being sarcastic, I apologize.

Victorinox did make a Deluxe Climber:
https://sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Deluxe+Climber

I've seen just one on eBay in the last few months.

[PitCarver]

 
Wow.  I've never seen that.


Now I've got something else to look for.

[Nix]

Nix, if you're being sarcastic, I apologize.

Victorinox did make a Deluxe Climber:
https://sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Deluxe+Climber

I've seen just one on eBay in the last few months.

     Why didn't I know about that before....? 

Actually....what I'd really, really like....the Motorist! (Deluxe Climber + Saw)

But I was half-jesting. I really like the Handyman. An outstanding...if a bit big...SAK.   

[Sawl Goodman]

I love my Vic corkscrews. And the pliers. If only they made a sensible tool like a Climber Deluxe.... Until then, I'm stuck with the Ranger Deluxe (aka Handyman).

I like the pliers too, and once had an interest in the Climber Deluxe. Problem for me is that it’s as thick as an Explorer, which I find quite a pocketful already! Thus, if I’m going to carry a pocketful of SAK it may as well be a more comprehensive model.

For a while I carried a Handyman until I bought a Swisschamp for cheap and saw it wasn’t much thicker, and it replaced the Handyman.

— Sawl “or nothing thicker than a Camper” Goodman