Why can't Victorinox manage to make a sensible multi-tool nowadays?

[SteveP]

I was really interested in the Deluxe Climber as I liked the pliers in the Deluxe Tinker, but wanted a corkscrew instead.

Then I got hooked on the Explorer because of the mag glass and inline Phillips driver.

Then I realized I could add pliers to an Explorer. Problem solved!

[Nix]

Then I realized I could add pliers to an Explorer. Problem solved!

My efforts at modding have not been successful. I need to try again! 

[SteveP]

My efforts at modding have not been successful. I need to try again! 

My Deluxe Explorer was my first mod and it hasn't fallen apart yet. So I consider it a success.   

Lots of great tips in the Mod Squad. Go on - take the plunge.   

[Singh]

Victorinox can never seem to hit on this combination of tools; either they leave-out one or more of them in an otherwise-sensible configuration, or they include all of them plus a bunch of other tools that are either highly specialized or useless: A mostly-useless pair of tiny pliers, an entirely-useless tiny nut wrench, a plastic magnifying glass that will get broken the first time the tool is dropped, a package-carrying hook that will never get used because nobody ties strings around packages anymore, a compass that doesn't read accurately because it's 2 inches away from a big block of steel tools, a fish-gutting knife, a fish-scaling knife, a fishing-hook remover, a seatbelt cutter, a marlin-spike for knitting marine ropes together, a freaking corkscrew like I'm living in 18th-century Europe, etc. etc. etc.

Physics in is getting in the way of what you want because full sized pliers won't fit into SAK. But SAK pliers make great "turbo tweezers" or forceps if seen and used in that light. Also, The hook has saved my bacon a few times. The corkscrew is useful for holding the eyeglass driver, opening wine, untying knots, and a host of other tasks. The magnifying glass is very useful and you'll be hard pressed to find a 4X/5X magnifying glass of that quality in such a small size. A useless tool to you is useful to someone else. But you got me on the nut wrench..
 

I have their SwissTool X -- it's a great butterfly-style multitool that has just the tools I actually use (all of which are accessible without unfolding the pliers, no less!), but it's also a big heavy mofo and not suitable for carrying in my pocket when I'm walking around an office building.

Sorry, but again, physics. You want all the tools, but not the weight that comes with it.   But the SwissTool X fits your bill. The only downside is weight. But stainless steel is heavy, and multiple tools are heavy, and full sized pliers are heavy. You can't escape it.  But I'll offer some  alternatives for you:

• The Handyman.  It has all the tools of a Swisstool but less weight (5oz).  Slap on some plus scales and you'll have your pen.
• Or you can get a Swisstool Spirit X which is lighter at 7oz versus 12oz Swisstool X. 

Perhaps one of the two options might work better for you?

[Greyman]

I wasn't going to join in on this one but for the most part it seems to have flowed in a positive fashion.

From my perspective Victorinox make the most sensible multitools these days and have done for a long time. Furthermore in a great deal of varieties. (Preaching to the choir here).

All well and good with any product to think if only this or that, and then there's modding and so on.
I'm satisfied within the vast selection and settle quite happily.
My daily carry is a Super Tinker as it suits what I'm willing to pocket everyday with the most desirable tool set.
I also accept that I, for whatever reason, will compliment my carry for extra versatility.

Perspective and needs differing, as pointed out, lead to a large variety of options regarding what's best or most sensible.
I don't particularly disagree with the desired tool set of the OP but I wouldn't daily carry it in my pocket nor would I choose a Delmont base with one of those, what I consider, pretty ordinary and unnecessary locks on the blade.
I'm all for locks on folders that compliment/necessitate/well implement one.

On another note I'm currently really enjoying carrying some of my larger SAKs, in particular the Swisschamp. Love the tool set and versatility/usability of it but I don't want to carry it around in my pocket everywhere, everyday but I wouldn't change a thing on it.

[Nix]

On another note I'm currently really enjoying carrying some of my larger SAKs, in particular the Swisschamp. Love the tool set and versatility/usability of it but I don't want to carry it around in my pocket everywhere, everyday but I wouldn't change a thing on it.

Sir, I encourage you to try out the Go BIG challenge. Or do the first half and earn a 30 Stacked badge.

I was very skeptical about carrying the Swiss Champ for 30 days. To my surprise, after doing a challenge, it seemed quite 'normal'. The last time I picked up a Swiss Champ, I thought, "oooops, wrong knife." It seemed too small to be a Swiss Champ. I find the Champ to be a marvel of engineering--a lot of tool in a wee little package.

 

[Sos24]

I'm not calling the MP600 gimmicky, I'm calling the MP600 outdated. Needing to deploy the pliers before accessing any of the other tools was always a bad idea, but it took them until the mid-2000s to figure that out. That's why they designed the Legend 800 in the first place. (of course, then they cheapened it with inferior materials, as I discovered when I bought a replacement 800 for my original one that had some worn-out tools.) It's Gerber's newer tools that are gimmicky.

Having to open pliers to access other tools is something I really hate.  Tool bunching is one of the other things.  One of the reasons lI love the Vic Spirit is the ease to access the tool you want quickly and without having to open other tools.

[Sos24]

The can opener seems pretty out-there, but consider how often people in industrialized nations need to open cans while cooking. For me it's almost every time I cook. So while I may always have a dedicated no-sharp-edges can opener handy, it's not inconceivable that it could break, or I could encounter a can that gives me trouble. In fact, that happened a couple months ago; my dedicated no-sharp-edges can opener just wouldn't latch onto a can that was damaged by being dropped on the floor, and my Swiss Army can opener came to the rescue.

Agree.  The SAK can opener has come to the rescue a few times when the regular kitchen can opener failed.  It seems unlikely, but I’ve come to realize that modern can openers can be finicky especially if the can edge is deformed. The SAK can opener has also come in handy when the pull tab on a can broke before opening the can.

[Nix]

 

[Aloha]

Great discussion all  .

Early on I picked up a Recruit and Esquire.  I was and in my opinion still new to SAKs.  Those were two good SAKs to pair.  Like many I began to discover what I believed I liked and sought out that configuration.  Much to my dismay it was either discontinued ( expensive ) or didn't exist.  What the heck VIC?  Over time I settled on a configuration that met most of my wants/needs.  SAK paring is a thing and so thats what I did to compensate. 

For the most part the Manager has been a go to in the 58mm line.  While the Minichamp is a spectacular 58mm it just doesn't completely do it for my wants/needs.  Did I settle?  Yes and no. 

The Explorer Plus is another that very much appealed to me.  I carried one for a while but.........   I tried the Swisschamp and Champion and many others along the journey.  I thought the 84mm size would be the end all be all.  I got a Salesman and a few others but.........   I tried some Wengers but...........   

What do I carry now?  Manager.  At work I decided the Champion was the right SAK for me.  I still don't know what SAK would do it for me for my EDC.  While I gravitate to the Explorer Plus I think its because I am familiar with it.  I still love my Recruit and Tinker in 84mm.  I prefer the Vic back side awl to Wenger so Wenger doesn't get the call as often. 

Over the years I've wondered why Victorinox seems to be so conservative.  Why don't they revive certain SAKs that "masses" seem to want?  Why not a revive of the 84mm line with scissors?  Why no Cadet with scissors/saw/metal file?  So many questions over the years but Victorinox keeps its own pace.  Let me say, GOOD ON THEM. 

I picked up a +B Yeoman and thought it would be a game changer, NOPE. 

I envy those of you who know what you want and either make it of have it made.  I think my issue is I just don't know what I want from Vic.  I also know that Vic bending to our ( enthusiasts ) whims or wants is not good business practice. 

I've learned to applaud Victorinox for their steady conservative approach to the tools we love.  Yeah I'd like things to be a little different like many of you but thats why we have modders and how to pages on how to mod. 

Don't like a configuration?  Within reason we can have quite a variety with some basic tools or some spare cash. 

I did try my hand at modding but I stopped because I am not someone who knows exactly what they want in a SAK. 

 

[Aloha]

I use my 84mm Recruit for all cans without pull tabs which by the way is a lot of cans in my house.   

[Altis]

[snip].....For the most part the Manager has been a go to in the 58mm line.  While the Minichamp is a spectacular 58mm it just doesn't completely do it for my wants/needs.  Did I settle?  Yes and no. 

The Explorer Plus is another that very much appealed to me.  I carried one for a while but.........   I tried the Swisschamp and Champion and many others along the journey.  I thought the 84mm size would be the end all be all.  I got a Salesman and a few others but.........   I tried some Wengers but...........   

What do I carry now?  Manager.  At work I decided the Champion was the right SAK for me.  I still don't know what SAK would do it for me for my EDC.  While I gravitate to the Explorer Plus I think its because I am familiar with it.  I still love my Recruit and Tinker in 84mm.  I prefer the Vic back side awl to Wenger so Wenger doesn't get the call as often.  ........... [snip]

The Manager is a great toolset that has very little carry cost but allows you to tackle many a task, easily my most-carried outside of work (CyberTool 34/M). Heck I just repaired a laptop using only the Manager.  Explorer Plus is also a brilliant EDC.

Your post does remind me that sometimes we think we want something and that it will be our endgame, but when we get it realize it has its own potential shortcomings. I suppose that's part of why I have so many different models and choose them based on the needs of the day. There's always a compromise as is the nature of trying to maximize capability and minimize carry cost (applies to all EDC), and all about finding that sweet spot.

Having said that, the Woodsman (Explorer + wood saw) is perfect and Victorinox needs to bring it back 

[Aloha]

 

I have been constantly reevaluating my off day carry for a while now.  The Manager is a constant.  The one SAK that seems to tick ( dare I say ) every box. 

I cannot say that for other SAKs.  I want to believe a Cadet with scissors would be a game changer but  .  Its all a trap folks.  Victorinox is a clever diabolical genius of a company ( insert evil laugh ).  I envy those who found their grail EDC.  I really do. 

 

[Greyman]

Sir, I encourage you to try out the Go BIG challenge. Or do the first half and earn a 30 Stacked badge.

I was very skeptical about carrying the Swiss Champ for 30 days. To my surprise, after doing a challenge, it seemed quite 'normal'. The last time I picked up a Swiss Champ, I thought, "oooops, wrong knife." It seemed too small to be a Swiss Champ. I find the Champ to be a marvel of engineering--a lot of tool in a wee little package.

 

Thanks Nix 
My Swisschamp was on the belt yesterday afternoon and likely will be all weekend. I don't mind carrying it at all in a pouch although were I to mingle with Joe Public it'd be left somewhere or put in a bag if carrying one.
I'll check out this challenge

I like your bit on a marvel of engineering-wee little package 

[SteveP]

Agree.  The SAK can opener has come to the rescue a few times when the regular kitchen can opener failed.  It seems unlikely, but I’ve come to realize that modern can openers can be finicky especially if the can edge is deformed. The SAK can opener has also come in handy when the pull tab on a can broke before opening the can.

I've opened a few cans with the can opener, more to try it out than because I had to.

But I have used the screwdriver tip on the can opener for small slotted screws, Phillips screws, and I hear it works with some Robertson (square-head) screws common in Canada. And I'm thinking of grinding out the inner vertical to make a hooked blade.

That's what I like about SAKs - layer tools that do multiple things. Multiple things = multiple options when you're stuck for something.

[Altis]

I've opened a few cans with the can opener, more to try it out than because I had to.

But I have used the screwdriver tip on the can opener for small slotted screws, Phillips screws, and I hear it works with some Robertson (square-head) screws common in Canada. And I'm thinking of grinding out the inner vertical to make a hooked blade.

That's what I like about SAKs - layer tools that do multiple things. Multiple things = multiple options when you're stuck for something.

I'll probably do the same to make a hook blade -- very useful.

I find it handy for wedging and prying, such as popping off a faceplate on an electronic device like a thermostat or laptop.

[Sos24]

Having said that, the Woodsman (Explorer + wood saw) is perfect and Victorinox needs to bring it back 

This is so true of several SAKs - Woodsman, Yeoman, Voyageur, Modeler, etc

[SteveP]

I'll probably do the same to make a hook blade -- very useful.

I find it handy for wedging and prying, such as popping off a faceplate on an electronic device like a thermostat or laptop.

Felix Immler has a great video on YouTube on modding the can opener to add the hook blade. Search for:
The Hook Blade Trick - Swiss Army Knife modification - Victorinox custom & maintenance (20/25)

I think this will be my weekend SAK project!   

[SteveP]

This is so true of several SAKs - Woodsman, Yeoman, Voyageur, Modeler, etc

I've seen exactly one Explorer-based Woodsman on eBay in the last three months and it went for more than I was willing to spend on it.

I thought about building my own, but I quite like the pliers I added to my Explorer and an Explorer + pliers + wood saw is only two thin layers less than my Swiss Champ, so decided there wasn't really a need.

I wasn't familiar with the Voyageur so looked it up on SAKWiki. Though slightly longer, I'd say the Compact is the spiritual successor to the Voyageur?

[Sawl Goodman]

I wasn't familiar with the Voyageur so looked it up on SAKWiki. Though slightly longer, I'd say the Compact is the spiritual successor to the Voyageur?

The Compact descends from the 84mm Golfer 

Remembering alox knives don’t have back side tools, in my view the Voyageur is an alox Golfer in the same way that the Cadet is an alox Sportsman.

[SteveP]

Sir, I encourage you to try out the Go BIG challenge. Or do the first half and earn a 30 Stacked badge.

Hey Nix, is it possible to do the second month of the Go BIG Challenge for the 30 Stacked badge? I'd love to come off the Daredevil Challenge and switch to 30 days with my Swiss Champ. Personally, I'd love the back to back comparison of the S557 to the Swiss Champ.

[fyrstormer]

Seriously...?  Port wine...? 
You are comparing Port wine, which is a "digestive" liquorous (aka: sweet) kind of wine to a "table" top red/white wine for accompanying your meal. Two different concepts, two different kinds of wine.

Alcohol does not promote good digestion, regardless of whether it's consumed during a meal or after a meal. The concept of a "digestive" is fundamentally flawed. The only difference is that port wine, having a higher alcohol content, is better consumed on a full stomach because it won't hit your brain as hard.

Anyway, I wasn't comparing port wine to anything. I was saying that good alcohol can be sealed with a screw-top. Surely you're not going to suggest that the usage of a cork somehow improves the wine? It's a privilege signal nowadays, nothing more -- "I'm drinking something that requires a special tool to open, and that means I'm fancy."

IMO the word "sensible" does not fit in the same sentence with "locking blade".....

A locking blade is the first step to get your MT or SAK frown upon by either co-workers, or more importantly the authorities, making that SAK/MT be forbidden to carry (EDC/casual carry) without a very good justification for doing so, as it may be considered a weapon.

Perhaps that is how the authorities react where you live. If so, that is unfortunate, because a locking blade is significantly safer for the user and not significantly more dangerous for anyone else; if you actually tried to attack someone with a folding knife with a locking blade, you'd quickly discover the lock is not nearly as strong as you might think. The lock is good for keeping the blade from snapping shut on your fingers, but it won't let you use a folding knife like a bayonet.

[fyrstormer]

So anyway, I did another one.





This is easier than I thought it would be...or at least, it's easier now. Had I tried it 10 years ago, with less skill and fewer tools, I likely would not have succeeded.

[fyrstormer]

Of all the ways this topic could've gone wrong, I would never have guessed it would be about cork or screwcaps.. 

But please, don't mind me  .

[kamakiri]

So anyway, I did another one.

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

This is easier than I thought it would be...or at least, it's easier now. Had I tried it 10 years ago, with less skill and fewer tools, I likely would not have succeeded.

That’s not unlike what I was talking about at the bottom of page 1…but for myself, I’d have kept the pliers and stubby phillips layer, if starting with a Workchamp. Or your mod as-is would carry nicely with some Knipex and a separate bit driver.

I do think Victorinox would have a winner with a CT Workchamp. They’d only need new backspring and liner stamping. Everything else could fit with just larger diameter rivet holes. I think I can make one work with existing parts and not look too janky.

[fyrstormer]

That’s not unlike what I was talking about at the bottom of page 1…but for myself, I’d have kept the pliers and stubby phillips layer, if starting with a Workchamp. Or your mod as-is would carry nicely with some Knipex and a separate bit driver.

I do think Victorinox would have a winner with a CT Workchamp. They’d only need new backspring and liner stamping. Everything else could fit with just larger diameter rivet holes. I think I can make one work with existing parts and not look too janky.

What is a "CT" Workchamp?

Someone made a point a couple pages ago that the tiny pliers make good "super-tweezers", and I suppose that might be true, but if I were going to use them as "super-tweezers" I'd want them to lock closed the way hemostats do.

It's not like I haven't tried to use Victorinox/Wenger's tiny pliers, but they've never performed well enough. Even when I need tiny pliers, I find it more effective to use the tips of needlenose pliers instead of small blunt pliers.

It would be nice if there were a way to break the laws of physics and put Leatherman-size pliers into a Swiss Army knife, but there isn't, so I'd rather do without the tiny pliers instead of carry them around knowing they aren't as capable as I want them to be.

If I can reach my Maxpedition bag (which I almost always can), then I can use the Leatherman Crunch and a set of Leatherman thin-bits tucked into one of the bag's many pockets. My Swiss Army knife (or whatever I happen to be carrying on a given day) is just what I keep in my pocket for quick jobs.

[Nix]

Hey Nix, is it possible to do the second month of the Go BIG Challenge for the 30 Stacked badge? I'd love to come off the Daredevil Challenge and switch to 30 days with my Swiss Champ. Personally, I'd love the back to back comparison of the S557 to the Swiss Champ.

Absolutely!   

[kamakiri]

What is a "CT" Workchamp?

‘CyberTool’ for the Vic 4mm but driver. A mod I’ve been contemplating.

Someone made a point a couple pages ago that the tiny pliers make good "super-tweezers", and I suppose that might be true, but if I were going to use them as "super-tweezers" I'd want them to lock closed the way hemostats do.

I understand the the want for a lock or even to delete the return spring (as I have on a couple), but I doubt that’s a feature that would appeal to the masses or ever be incorporated by Victorinox.

It's not like I haven't tried to use Victorinox/Wenger's tiny pliers, but they've never performed well enough. Even when I need tiny pliers, I find it more effective to use the tips of needlenose pliers instead of small blunt pliers.

It would be nice if there were a way to break the laws of physics and put Leatherman-size pliers into a Swiss Army knife, but there isn't, so I'd rather do without the tiny pliers instead of carry them around knowing they aren't as capable as I want them to be.

If I can reach my Maxpedition bag (which I almost always can), then I can use the Leatherman Crunch and a set of Leatherman thin-bits tucked into one of the bag's many pockets. My Swiss Army knife (or whatever I happen to be carrying on a given day) is just what I keep in my pocket for quick jobs.

I think you’re missing the physics of the advantages of the small pliers over any needle nose. The leverage way out to the tip isn’t multiplied very much in any pair I own. But the Victorinox pliers still have great leverage out to its short tip…even using just thumb pressure. Reach into tight spaces is even better. I’ve fixed and retrieved items with the Vic pliers that needle nose (even tiny ones) couldn’t do.

And if you’ve never tried knipex pliers wrenches…well you wouldn’t know how useful they are even in their smallest 125mm/5” size. Leverage in their design is way higher and even out to the very tip. 

[fyrstormer]

‘CyberTool’ for the Vic 4mm but driver. A mod I’ve been contemplating.

Interesting. I tried test-fitting a Cybertool bit driver on my EvoGrip, but the EvoGrip is slightly too short; obviously the WorkChamp would be more than long enough to fit the bit driver, though you'd have to figure out what to do with the extra length.

I understand the the want for a lock or even to delete the return spring (as I have on a couple), but I doubt that’s a feature that would appeal to the masses or ever be incorporated by Victorinox.

Sadly I agree; Victorinox will never make a tool like that. I'd have to machine my own parts, and that is equally unlikely to ever happen.

I think you’re missing the physics of the advantages of the small pliers over any needle nose. The leverage way out to the tip isn’t multiplied very much in any pair I own. But the Victorinox pliers still have great leverage out to its short tip…even using just thumb pressure. Reach into tight spaces is even better. I’ve fixed and retrieved items with the Vic pliers that needle nose (even tiny ones) couldn’t do.

I have "ship in a bottle" pliers that I use when I need to retrieve small items in tight spaces. They are so phenomenally effective for that job that I can no longer tolerate the lesser performance of any other tool.

You make a good point about the leverage that Victorinox pliers have. I've just somehow never found them to be useful for anything. I don't know why. Maybe it's the fact that they're attached to a big Swiss Army knife that makes the pliers cumbersome despite their small size.

And if you’ve never tried knipex pliers wrenches…well you wouldn’t know how useful they are even in their smallest 125mm/5” size. Leverage in their design is way higher and even out to the very tip.

Oh, I know exactly how useful Knipex wrenches are; I own all 3 sizes and they are my go-to for all sorts of tasks. Brilliant tools. I heard they're making a 4th extra-small size soon.

[kamakiri]

Interesting. I tried test-fitting a Cybertool bit driver on my EvoGrip, but the EvoGrip is slightly too short; obviously the WorkChamp would be more than long enough to fit the bit driver, though you'd have to figure out what to do with the extra length.

I have a couple methods figured out. I’ll have more knife build time when the kids are back in school. Just need the liner material to make it look as factory as I can, so I wouldn’t want to use the nickel silver sheet that I keep on hand for vintage stuff.

Sadly I agree; Victorinox will never make a tool like that. I'd have to machine my own parts, and that is equally unlikely to ever happen.

Yeah, I’ve only used improvised methods to that effect. Rubber bands, clamps and such.

I have "ship in a bottle" pliers that I use when I need to retrieve small items in tight spaces. They are so phenomenally effective for that job that I can no longer tolerate the lesser performance of any other tool.

And that’s why there are so many different types of pliers out there…as well as in my possession.

You make a good point about the leverage that Victorinox pliers have. I've just somehow never found them to be useful for anything. I don't know why. Maybe it's the fact that they're attached to a big Swiss Army knife that makes the pliers cumbersome despite their small size.
Oh, I know exactly how useful Knipex wrenches are; I own all 3 sizes and they are my go-to for all sorts of tasks. Brilliant tools. I heard they're making a 4th extra-small size soon.

Cobra style got me familiar and confident in the brand and the Pliers Wrench stuff got me hooked. I think a similar design that fit in the 91mm frame with a 12mm or even 10mm capacity would be a winner. The little 125 opens up to 24.75mm.

I think maybe you could just use more time with the Vic pliers to find their strengths. I never really liked the Wenger style slip joint…but the more time I carry them, the more I find acceptable uses for them. But so far, not enough uses to make me choose them over the Vic ones. And FWIW, I like the first version better at 2.5mm wide over the current 3mm. Unfortunately they are a bit rare as they were only made from ‘86-‘87 and were last used in the limited edition battle series Rütli knife in ‘91.