Do most enthusiasts consider Victorinox tools better than leatherman...?

[Raukodur]

from having read quite a lot of threads where people are discussing the different multitool producing companies and their tools (leatherman and victorinox in particular) I have gotten the image that most people who own atleast one tool of each prefer victorinox.

Is this the case? The reason I am asking this in the leatherman forum is because I am thinking I might have gained that idea from reading threads in forums where more people use victorinox tools as opposed to leathermans.

If this is indeed the case, are there any particular reasons? Do people just prefer the aesthetics of victorinox multitools, or are they built better, or are there specific things about leathermans that are not liked?

The reason for asking this question is because I own a leatherman surge, and am thinking of selling it to buy a leatherman charge TTI. I have looked at the multitools from other companies such as SOG, victorinox, Gerber and find that I like the look and design of leathermans the most.
I like the way they have 4 (two knives, two saws) on the outside, with the rest of the (smaller) tools inside. The metal 'sheaths' for the outside tools make the handles comfortable for using the pliers. I also like the 'shape' and design of the leatherman tools and knives (especially the special steel knife and the cutting hook on the serrated blade) from a pretty much purely aesthetic point of view. However, since I have not actually owned most leathermans, and any of the tools from the other companies, most of this is conjecture and thoughts from looking at pictures on the web.

So, to get back to the original question, do most people who own both victorinox and leatherman multitools prefer the former, and if so, why?
(I hope this doesnt turn into a leatherman vs. victorinox slugging match, this isnt what it is meant to be).

[Grant Lamontagne]

Wow, this is a doosey!

The Leatherman versus Victorinox debate will go on as long as Coke vs Pepsi, Ford vs Chevrolet, ketchup vs catsup and good vs evil will.

I look forward to reading this one!

Def

[supratentorial]

So, to get back to the original question, do most people who own both victorinox and leatherman multitools prefer the former, and if so, why?
(I hope this doesnt turn into a leatherman vs. victorinox slugging match, this isnt what it is meant to be).

I like both but I wouldn't dismiss SOG so quickly.  And I know others who would be disapointed that you dismissed Gerber as well.  All of the brands have positives and negatives. 

In addition to compound leverage pliers and better fitting dedicated drivers, there are other benefits to owning a SOG (see photo).  Manufacturers have a tendency to make stupid choices.  Although some will disagree, it is my opinion that some of those stupid choices include the knife selection on the SwissTool Spirit and the small driver and slotted driver on the Charge TTi. I can make stupid choices on my own--I don't need help from Victorinox or Leathermans.    With SOG, I can customize the tool so that it has what I need and nothing I don't need.  If my needs change or if I damage one of the tools, I can swap the tools out again at anytime.

That being said, I am quite fond of many Leatherman and Victorinox tools as well.  My favorite multi-tools are (in no particular order): Leatherman Charge XTi, Leatherman Crunch, Leatherman PST, Leatherman SuperTool, Victorinox SwissTool X and original, Victorinox SwissTool Spirit, SOG Powerlock, and SOG Pocket Power Plier.  I posted a comparison of the strengths and weakness of a handful of these tools in the following post:
http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,533.0.html

[Fred]

If my needs change or if I damage one of the tools, I can swap the tools out again at anytime.

That almost makes sense but when you think of the price of the SOG to begin with, then add in the cost of the various parts you need to customize it then it isn't such a great deal. Also, it takes about five minutes to pull out a blade on the SOG!  Open the pliers, open the cover, pull out the blade, put the other tools back, manually engage the lock that never engages, close the cover, close the pliers, use the tool then repeat the process to put the thing away!

[supratentorial]

That almost makes sense but when you think of the price of the SOG to begin with, then add in the cost of the various parts you need to customize it then it isn't such a great deal.

All the manufactures have warranties but if the repair or replacement isn't covered by the warranty:  A replacement Charge TTi costs around $100.  A replacement Victorinox SwissTool costs around $50.  With SOG, you don't have to replace the entire tool: a replacement SOG blade costs around $6 and a replacement SOG pliers costs around $12.

At Lowes a SOG Powerlock costs $60.  I've bought a new SOG Pocket Power Plier for less than $20, a new Paladin PT-510 for less than $10, a new Stanley Pocket Power Plier for $10, a new SOG Powerlock for $25, and a new Paladin PT-540 for $40 on Ebay.  At those prices it may be more practical to buy multiple tools and swap out the parts.

Unless you want to make major modifications (e.g. http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,418.30.html) and sacrifice another tool for its components, its not as practical (or easily accomplished) to swap out the tools on a Leatherman or Victorinox multi-tool.  ...And you'd void the warranty.  SOG encourages you to swap out parts (http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,409.0.html).

Also, it takes about five minutes to pull out a blade on the SOG!...

Slight exaggeration    but there are drawbacks to the design of the SOG Powerlock ...as well as drawbacks to the design of every other multi-tool (e.g. http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,533.0.html)

[Gryffin]

If this is indeed the case, are there any particular reasons? Do people just prefer the aesthetics of victorinox multitools, or are they built better, or are there specific things about leathermans that are not liked?

Not sure how this turned into a "SOG slog" so quickly, but I'm gonna try to address the original question...

I don't see one company as necessarily "better" than the other. Vic and LM simply take rather different approachs to multitools.

Leatherman is the more innovative IMHO; they field more models, in a wide range of sizes and with a wide range of implements. They've consistently push the envelope on design and features: the bright colors of Juice line, for instance; the one-hand-opening knife design of the Wave / Charge / Surge; the interchangeable bit-holders on the newer tools; etc.  From the Wave to the present tools, they've put a lot of emphasis on ergonomics, and have some of the most user-friendly tools out there. However, LM's quality standards haven't been as high or consistent as that of Victorinox. (Both companies stand 100% behind their products, though, and can be counted on to make things right with their customers.)

Victorinox, on the other hand, is much more conservative; to date they've only put out the SwissTool (in a few minor variations) and the SwissTool Spirit. The former has the ergonomics of a crowbar, the latter is much better in that regard; but the fit and finish on all are impeccable, much more refined than anything Leatherman has ever produced. When the SwissTool hit the market, it developed an enviable reputation for brute toughness matched by only the latest LM "super tools" (Core, Surge). However well executed their tools are, though, the selection is pretty thin; and their tools' highly-polished finish isn't always practical — they get slippery in sweaty hands, and their screwdriver bits have been known to slip.

So, as I see it, Leatherman excels in features, variety and ergonomics, whereas Vic excels in build quality and execution.

-----------------------

OK, so... what about the other guys?

IMHO, SOG sits somewhere between Vic & LM: more consistent quality than Leatherman, but more varied and innovative design than Vic.

However, the SOG tool line is getting a bit long in the tooth these days; other than *finally* putting covers over those gears and adding a couple new implements (v-cutter, PDB tools on the Paladin tools), what have they really done new in the past few years? The fact that all of their tools (well, other than the CrossGrip/CrossCut) share the same implements is convenient for the factory (and for tool tinkerers like us!), but also restricts their "design space". With everyone else trying so hard to innovate, SOG risks being left behind if they just keep milking their base designs for too long.

As for Gerber, well... they try, I'll give them that. (I've written many times how much I dislike Gerber tools; I won't repeat the litany here.) Their original Multi-Plier is the AK-47 of multitools: simple, crude, loose & rattley, but tough and reliable. The newer Fiskars-era tools have tried mightily to be innovative, but their execution is generally awful. The Diesel looks to be a step in the right direction, addressing many of the shortcomings of the Multi-Plier, so there may be hope for Gerber yet.

The one player I miss is Kershaw. Their sole multitool design was quite good, and seeing the excellent quality and value of their knife line, I *know* they could be very competitive if they so desired.

[Anthony]

I own a leatherman surge, and am thinking of selling it to buy a leatherman charge TTI.

Make sure to post it in the Trade forums...(I'm looking for a used Surge )

As for the SOG taking a long time to access the blades (and close them)...I can do it pretty fast, mostly with one hand.  I can probably get at them faster than my Gerber 600 blades (sliding the pliers out, opening the handles, getting tool out, closing handles, sliding pliers back in...)

[Cheviot]

Better?
I'm not sure !

It depends on what you "need" or use the Multi-tool for, I am am an electrical engineer so need to cut cable/wire and tighten screws etc...
I have a Swisstool and you can't knock it's quality at all it feels like what it is "a well designed and engineered tool". I don't think Leatherman can really compete on the feel of the tool the Swisstool just feels right when sitting on the sofa watching TV but in the real world unfortunately I can't get on with it as an EDC because of the following -
Blunt Nose Pliers
Short Cutting Area in the pliers
Multi function screwdrivers that restrict access to screws.
I struggle to get the blades out with my lack of unbitten fingernails.

Therefore I EDC & prefer Leatherman tools (Never owned a SOG, really have to work on that) I have used a Supertool 200 and a Core for EDC over the past few years and they are excellant workhorses and whilst nothing fancy they have never let me down and you can't ask for more than that!

Rob

[Grant Lamontagne]

they have never let me down and you can't ask for more than that!

I think that's something that can be said for all of the major manufacturers as well.  I have rarely ever seen anything fail, and in the few instances where they have, the manufacturer has always stood up for them and replaced it.

Def

[SoDak]

Here's my thoughts after owning a swisstool, two spirits, and many leathermans.

Victorinox swisstool. The swisstool has a lot of stuff in a smaller package campared to leathermans although I'm not sure that's always a good thing. For example the medium screwdriver could be really long but they put the bottle opener near the tip meaning it is really short. Another thing I don't care for on the swisstool is the phillips screwdriver. While it doesn't do a bad job on most screws if the screwhead is already stripped out a little bit or the screwhead was made in a different way the swisstool's screwdriver just wants to slip. The pliers never bothered me much because I like them on bolts. I've been considering getting a swisstool X, but I'm not sure because even though the swisstool isn't bad, leatherman designs seem to work better for me.

Victorinox Spirit. It has most of the shortcomings of the standard swisstool, but this one works better for me. I think that's mostly because it works really good as a pocket carry tool and there aren't many other tools that can compete in terms of features and durability in this size category.

Leathermans. Out of most of the tools I've owned and carried leathermans seem to work the best for me. My first was a wave which I carried for quite a while. Other than that I've carried a core for a bit until I thought I could cut paracord with the wirecutters (don't ask me why I thought that was a good idea) and the pliers were loose after that and for some reason the core fell out of favor. Now I'm carrying a surge and I like it quite a bit. I don't think the leathermans have the build quality the swisstools do, but at least for me that never caused any problems. One thing I like aobut leatherman over victorinox is that they don't always try to cram as much as they can oon each blade, which translates into longer reaching screwdrivers and unfortunately a bigger tool. Another thing leatherman has is the diamond coated file which I really like. Now I've heard from a lot of people that leatherman's current offerings are getting "gimmicky" and while sometimes that has been the case I think leatherman has had some good ideas. The wave's bit holder was a good idea because with the flat double bits you could have a lot of sizes in a small package. It's a shame that they also don't make some longer bits that have some reach. The eyeglass screwdriver never was much good for me. but I guess for some people it's probably great. I like the surge's blade exchanger and I'm planning to get some hacksaw blades for it when I get somewhere. The main thing I like about leatherman's is their screwdrivers. They have long reach and the phillips screwdriver grip good. The only thing is that they could be a little harder. The only bad thing about leathermans in general is that they seem to cost more, but for me I think they're worth it.

[hurricane bob]

I thought my Leathermans were great up until I bought a SwissTool.

[Dunc]

. When the SwissTool hit the market, it developed an enviable reputation for brute toughness matched by only the latest LM "super tools" (Core, Surge). However well executed their tools are, though, the selection is pretty thin;

You reckon ?



Dunc

[Splat]

I handled a Vic Spirit and a Swiss Tool yesterday. Beautiful. I felt like I was handling top-class machines. I don't convince easily the item(s) is worth the price but the Vics  I can see myself spending that much for them. I would rate the functionality and robustness of the Core alongside a Vic Swiss Tool, but I like the outside opening of the Swiss Tools, yet the Phillips of the Core is better. As others have said, it depends what you want and like.

[Gryffin]

When the SwissTool hit the market, it developed an enviable reputation for brute toughness matched by only the latest LM "super tools" (Core, Surge). However well executed their tools are, though, the selection is pretty thin;

You reckon ?

I was talking about tool models, not number of implements in each tool. Fact is, Victorinox only offers  two base models (SwissTool and SwissTool Spirit) with two or three minor variations in implements for each.

Compare that to Leatherman: Squirt (3 variations), Micra (several colors), Juice (five or six models), Fuse/Blast/Kick, Wave, Charge (several variations), Surge, Core... plus the discontinued ones: PST, PST II, Pulse, SuperTool, Flair... I'm sure I'm missing a couple.

Or SOG: Pocket PowerPlier (two models), PowerLock (four variations in implements and several finishes), ParaTool, SwitchPlier, CrossCut/CrossGrip, and one or two discontinued ones I'm forgetting.

Hell, even Gerber: Multi-Plier 600 and 400 (with a few variations), Evolution, Legend & Urban Legend, Recoil, Solstice, Shortcut, Diesel, Suspension, and a number of newer models that I don't know the names of.

I stand by my statement: compared to the competition, Victorinox's product line is pretty slim. What they offer is very well thought out, and excellently made; if what they have suits your needs, then great. But a lot of people might not find what they want or need in a multitool.

[Dunc]

Sorry Griffin I understand what you mean now  How I see it is that Vic has most things covered with the two Spirits ( std and S ) and the 3 Swisstools ( std , X and RS ) and dont feel the need to continually re-invent themselves and treat the industry like a fashion parade . If Leathermans tools are so good why are so many of them discontinued ? I know things evolve and indeed Victorinox brought out the Spirit but is there really any need to bring out three new models every twelve months .What are they trying to say about their last years model ? that its not very good and you now need to go and buy this years model .


Dunc

[Grant Lamontagne]

Victorinox has always supported the same designs for many years, and is often slow to bring out new models and new ideas.  Look how long it took them to roll out the SwissTool in the first place.  They were about ten years late to the market with the SwissTool, and yet it's one of the most highly regarded and respected tools.  That's Victorinox's way of doing things.  This way they don't fall into fads and waste alot of money on things that no one will remember in a year!

Unless one was to suggest a specific model of Leatherman one couldn't really compare the two.  In general, I think both companies have their pros and cons just like any tool, and what works for one person may not work for another.  My personal preference is the SwissTool (and Spirit), but I have 4 SwissTools and probably about 20 Leathermans...

Def

[SoDak]

Here's why I think leatherman is constantly coming out with new tools is this; leathermans are probably better known than any other tool so they sell alot of them. The problem is that now everybody has a leatherman and most will be happy with it and not feel the need to buy another one. That means that leatherman has to constantly make "improvements" to previous tools wheather they were needed or not. So while the new always one isn't better than what it replaced, people will buy it "because its new" which makes people think that the old one was junk.  For example look how slow leatherman was in intruducing products between when it started with the pst until about the mid 90s. Then they took off a little faster, but as people bought them they needed to come up with more ideas and it seems like if I remember right they came out with a slug of tools after 2000 and kept on that track.  I don't think that victorinox has this problem with their swisstool because they aren't nearly as well known. So I think while they might not have as big a market they probably have a steadier one and since victorinox hasn't really come out with new swisstool varients people think that this is the best because it hasn't been improved on. I think it also helps victorinox that they don't soley rely on the swisstool as leatherman depends on their models so I think leatherman has a greater urgency to make the next big thing. Plus victorinox does has better quality control. Admittedly most of my theory is based on what I've seen so others may draw their own conclusions.

[Tom Munch]

I'll disagree just to play Devil's Advocate.  Leatherman has saturated the market, but they also do make improvements that warrant new tools at least in their upper-tier tools.  Their lower-tier tools are usually redesign jobs little different than their predecessors.  That said, you don't see something significantly different like the Crunch very often.

Tom

[SoDak]

I'll disagree just to play Devil's Advocate.  Leatherman has saturated the market, but they also do make improvements that warrant new tools at least in their upper-tier tools.  Their lower-tier tools are usually redesign jobs little different than their predecessors.  That said, you don't see something significantly different like the Crunch very often.

Tom

I do agree to most of that, it just seems like there has been times when I've bought the new model and after buying the model that preceded it I was a little dissapointed witht he new one. My best example is the kick and the pst. While the kick is a little sturdier and more comfortable, the pst is smaller and has more tools. Another one is the core and supertool. I really like the core but I wish it was the size of the supertool although the core's advantages probably outweigh them. One more I can think of off the top of my head would be the scissors from the old wave and the new wave. I guess what I think is that while leatherman has made some big improvements over old models it seems like often they take away some of the better atributes of the old model and don't transfer it to the new one.

[Tom Munch]

I'll agree with the PST & Kick.  I haven't used the Core, but it looks no better than the SuperTool to me.  I am one of those who actually found the new scissors an improvement in the test I did a couple months ago on the forum, even though they look cheaper to me.  I think Leatherman probably considers them all an evolutionary improvement.  We should ask them, although they officially wouldn't admit to planned obsolescence.

Tom

[sakjohn]

I agree with most of what has been said about the swisstool and the leatherman tool. My leatheman tools both developed some rust spots on the blades which really soured me on the leatherman products. I've never had a rust problem with any of the swiss army products i've owned. Leatherman tools seem to be more innovative, but I think the swisstools are solid products that don't really need changing. If you also consider all of the variations of the swiss army knives/tools available, you can get any combination of tools you need. I'm a SAK fanboy though so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

[Sea Monster]

The Leatherman versus Victorinox debate will go on as long as Coke vs Pepsi, Ford vs Chevrolet, ketchup vs catsup and good vs evil will.

I look forward to reading this one! Grin

Def

I'll solve some woes for you Def.

Victorinox (I've yet to break a SAK)

IRN BRU (Cola is for mixing, it's not a drink)

Toyota

Worcestershire sauce

Irrational exuberance.

That said, you don't see something significantly different like the Crunch very often.

The crunch seems to have a big fanbase amongst "Multitool Enthusiasts", but obviously not with the punters, as it was discontinued (I think? it's not under Retired on the LM website) with no "New Crunch" in view, and I've never seen one on the streets.
I guess locking pliers are a bit speSmurfpillst to the mind of some folk - and there's no denying the stubbiness of the blades.

Locking blades and bit driver, if not exactly ahead of its time, at least showed a desire to keep up with the new developments.
It's quite a small tool in the hand, but the all steel construction and solid weight reveal it to be capable of serious use.

I might buy one. I don't think it'd make a great EDC - not enough blades and too slow to fold about, but it'd make a nice addition to a centre console or boat - two places I would not usually have a file or vicegrips, but probably should.

[Grant Lamontagne]

The Crunch is still in production, it's just not as common as other models.

As for the Toyota thing.... 

Def

[Dtrain]

Watch it on the Toyota is Bro....Yaris's Rule the SubCompact world.LOL just kidding.....Can you link the story from SOSAK about my SwissTool?.

Dtrain

[Grant Lamontagne]

Possibly, but not everyone here is a SOSAK member, so maybe better to reprint it.

Def

[Dtrain]

How can I do that,do I have to retype it here?

Dtrain

[Grant Lamontagne]

I would just copy and paste it here.  You shouldn't re-type it, that would just be painful!



Def

[Dtrain]

OK.......Please Remember That Mongo is a simple Truck Driver and has troubles with computers.Look how long you had to put my Pics up.LOL So how do I copy and Paste?

Dtrain

[Carthas]

It all comes down to personal preference. My suggestion would be to handle them all in the store if you can, and see which one looks and feels best to you. Note that you're not going to lose at all if you select something from the big 4 - they're all exellent tools IMO. Personally, I EDC a Charge TTi or a new Wave, the TTi for work and the wave as a beat-about tool for home. I like it for the one-handed opening blades, the larger surface area of the wire cutters, the needlenode pliers, and the built-in (proprietary) multi-bit driver (some consider this to be a letdown of the tool). However, the swisstool I own I would take (and did!) over the Leatherman Blast/Fuse/Kick/Core models in a heartbeat. It has a better selection of tools, it feels more comfortable in the hand than my charge or wave, it's fit and finish feel better, the ruler on it is placed so that you can use it when the tool is closed, and if you get the plus version (which I sadly didn't) you get the multibit wrench to use with it as well. Having that seperate with the pliers in the swisstool makes good sense.

Only Sog Multitool I've used is the Paratool, and I wasn't too impressed with that. The new Powerlocks look exellent however, and the ability to customise the tool with your own loadout, AND be able to disassemble it to clean, really appeal to me.

[WhichDawg]

Some very interesting posts here, I'm glad it was brought back. I liked all the comments and points (what happened to many of them guys?)

I look at it this way, if I had to have only one tool, either a Swisstool or Leatherman for the rest of my life, I'd pick a Swisstool:
for it's durability, it's craftsmanship and smart design.

I like my Leathermans very much, they are a smart company with many models and started the whole thing!
but I'd like my tool to last my lifetime and maybe a little more and what I've read suggests some Leathermans may not do that (many reviews).

Also price matters and Leathermans are the more expensive (for some un-known reason), but I will still buy Leatherman, Sog, maybe a Gerber and
others because I'm lucky and a TOOL-NUT! but someday I may not be able too and I will be glad I have my Swisstools...