Neat Little EDC option

[american lockpicker]

So is everyone on here a cop?

[Grant Lamontagne]

I'm not a cop- I couldn't pass the physical after breaking my knee when I was a kid.  Then, once they decided that level of injury was ok, it was too late as I'd already crushed my foot, hyperextended my elbow and had a few other injuries piled up... well they'd have to be pretty hard up for officers before they'd call my number! 

I'm actually an investigator by trade, and do private security work.  I also work as a bouncer in a bar for the fun of it! 

Def

[Leatherman123]

Def, for some reason, I thought you tended bar!

[hawkchucker]

I quit it so there are some civies here.

[Magic Bus]

Tapioca should be Section 5 on the grounds it made my life difficult at school. I'll take CS gas any day 

[jzmtl]

How about some wasp spray, you know the kind spray 10 ft and used to nuke their nest, can't classify that as weapon can you?

[Flash]

How about some wasp spray, you know the kind spray 10 ft and used to nuke their nest, can't classify that as weapon can you?

In Britain?  Yes you can.

If you INTENDED it to be used offensively, it would come under the "Offensive Weapons Act" 


Boring bit...

Lord Lane, CJ. in R.-v-. Simpson (C), (78 Cr.App.R.115), identified three categories of offensive weapons:

    * those made for causing injury to the person i.e. offensive per se. For examples of weapons that are offensive per se, see Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) Order 1988, (Stones 8-22744) and case law decisions. (Archbold 24-116);
    * those adapted for such a purpose;
    * those not so made or adapted, but carried with the intention of causing injury to the person.


So there 

[Nikos]

    * those not so made or adapted, but carried with the intention of causing injury to the person.

How can you know someone's violent intention, unless it gets manifested thusly?   

[Flash]

    * those not so made or adapted, but carried with the intention of causing injury to the person.

How can you know someone's violent intention, unless it gets manifested thusly?   

Thats the point....theoretically I would only know of your intention after the event was carried out OR if you were to admit your intention during interview before any act was carried out.

The former = easy to prove
The latter = unless you are stupid VIRTUALLY impossible to prove.

 

[Medic82]

How about a spray with isopropylalkohol?

[Flash]

How about a spray with isopropylalkohol?

Again,  I would ask what your intentions were for carrying it.

If you argue its for self defence, I would charge you.

If you say its for cleaning a computer I would look at other factors such as time of day, location to computer etc etc.

For example, if you had just brought it, no problems.   If you are in a night club at 0100 hrs. then you may be unable to justify having it 

[Nikos]

So you would be allowed to carry such a spray, until you take it out and empty it on someone's face or you threaten to do so... Cause lack of proper justification is not a proof of mischevious intentions, is it? A mess I tell ya!

[Flash]

So you would be allowed to carry such a spray, until you take it out and empty it on someone's face or you threaten to do so... Cause lack of proper justification is not a proof of mischevious intentions, is it? A mess I tell ya!

No, you are not "allowed" to carry this for SD.  You can possess it under certain circumstances BUT the slightest suspicion of a nefarious activity and you may be arrested.

However, you are right.  Its a mess, the legislation is unclear and causes problems in its application.

[Benner]

What if you had a can of whatever on you after you had genuinely just bought it and then used that to spray someone after they attacked you?

[hawkchucker]

But now the big question... Can I bring my Glock to britan this year?

[Medic82]

How about a spray with isopropylalkohol?

Again,  I would ask what your intentions were for carrying it.

If you argue its for self defence, I would charge you.

If you say its for cleaning a computer I would look at other factors such as time of day, location to computer etc etc.

For example, if you had just brought it, no problems.   If you are in a night club at 0100 hrs. then you may be unable to justify having it 

Hehehe. You have a spray here in Norway that is called Bodyguard and stinks and burn like hell and it has a color that last for aprox 7 days. Yes, I'm going to clean my computer

In Norway pepper spray and CS is illegal but a spray with isopropylalkohol is legal.

I was working the security check for the boat that traffics Norway-Denmark a couple of weeks ago, and I send a 17 year old British girl through too get her baggage scanned and it turned out she had a little CS with her, this was of course confiscated but we didn’t call the police since we thought that carrying CS was legal in the UK, well, you learn something new everyday. Did you also know that handcuffs are considered a weapon in Sweden??

[Benner]

But now the big question... Can I bring my Glock to britan this year?

If you mean the entrenchment tool then yes. 

[Medic82]

But now the big question... Can I bring my Glock to britan this year?

If you mean the entrenchment tool then yes. 

Yes, the entrenchment tool that makes a hole aprox 9mm in diameter

[Benner]

But now the big question... Can I bring my Glock to britan this year?

If you mean the entrenchment tool then yes. 

Yes, the entrenchment tool that makes a hole aprox 9mm in diameter

 

[Flash]

How about a spray with isopropylalkohol?

Again,  I would ask what your intentions were for carrying it.

If you argue its for self defence, I would charge you.

If you say its for cleaning a computer I would look at other factors such as time of day, location to computer etc etc.

For example, if you had just brought it, no problems.   If you are in a night club at 0100 hrs. then you may be unable to justify having it 

Hehehe. You have a spray here in Norway that is called Bodyguard and stinks and burn like hell and it has a color that last for aprox 7 days. Yes, I'm going to clean my computer

In Norway pepper spray and CS is illegal but a spray with isopropylalkohol is legal.

For clarification isopropylalkohol's main application is for cleaning electronics 

[Nikos]

So you would be allowed to carry such a spray, until you take it out and empty it on someone's face or you threaten to do so... Cause lack of proper justification is not a proof of mischevious intentions, is it? A mess I tell ya!

No, you are not "allowed" to carry this for SD.  You can possess it under certain circumstances BUT the slightest suspicion of a nefarious activity and you may be arrested.

No, not SD. I thought something along the lines of "oh THAT spray... you see, it belonged to my <insert beloved person> and is of great sentimental value to me, so I carry it with me at all times... it's not like i'm gonna use it or something..." It's not an "offensive weapon per se" if the law doesn't categorize it as such, and it's not "adapted to be so" if it's factory made, and you cannot prove that the owner "had a nefarious intention". Where would you go from there? It's highly probable that this guy is lying about the reason he carries such a thing on his person, but what can you do about it if the law is so vague?

[Flash]

What if you had a can of whatever on you after you had genuinely just bought it and then used that to spray someone after they attacked you?

Benner, there is a stated case that allowed for a man to use his vehicle crook lock to beat someone into virtual unconsciousness after being attacked by him.

In other words, if you grab something in the heat of battle and you acted in a justifiable manner, with an honestly held belief that you were fighting for your life.....then the law allows for this.

In addition to the common law defence, section 3 (1) of the Criminal Law Act 1967 (the statutory defence) provides (see, also, the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008, below):

"A person may use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances in the prevention of crime, or in effecting or assisting in the lawful arrest of offenders or suspected offenders or of persons unlawfully at large."

 

[Flash]

So you would be allowed to carry such a spray, until you take it out and empty it on someone's face or you threaten to do so... Cause lack of proper justification is not a proof of mischevious intentions, is it? A mess I tell ya!

No, you are not "allowed" to carry this for SD.  You can possess it under certain circumstances BUT the slightest suspicion of a nefarious activity and you may be arrested.

No, not SD. I thought something along the lines of "oh THAT spray... you see, it belonged to my <insert beloved person> and is of great sentimental value to me, so I carry it with me at all times... it's not like i'm gonna use it or something..." It's not an "offensive weapon per se" if the law doesn't categorize it as such, and it's not "adapted to be so" if it's factory made, and you cannot prove that the owner "had a nefarious intention". Where would you go from there? It's highly probable that this guy is lying about the reason he carries such a thing on his person, but what can you do about it if the law is so vague?

God my job is FUN.

The law is vague and people get away with it.  I don't like it, but thats the way it is

[Benner]

What if you had a can of whatever on you after you had genuinely just bought it and then used that to spray someone after they attacked you?

Benner, there is a stated case that allowed for a man to use his vehicle crook lock to beat someone into virtual unconsciousness after being attacked by him.

In other words, if you grab something in the heat of battle and you acted in a justifiable manner, with an honestly held belief that you were fighting for your life.....then the law allows for this.

In addition to the common law defence, section 3 (1) of the Criminal Law Act 1967 (the statutory defence) provides (see, also, the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008, below):

"A person may use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances in the prevention of crime, or in effecting or assisting in the lawful arrest of offenders or suspected offenders or of persons unlawfully at large."

 

That's what I thought. 

[Flash]

Also.......

The concept of the defence exists both at common law and by statute. At common law the defence has existed for centuries and permits a person to use reasonable force to:

   1. defend himself from attack
   2. prevent an attack on another person
   3. defend his property

Gives you something to work with 

[Benner]

It's that "reasonable" word that I don't like.  I wish they would write a list of stuff you could do to someone in a given scenario. 

[Flash]

It's that "reasonable" word that I don't like.  I wish they would write a list of stuff you could do to someone in a given scenario. 

What would a reasonable person do.

It might be reasonable to walk away from verbal threats.

It mights be reasonable to stamp on someone's head a kill them if they are grounded an pull a gun on you.

Most important thing to remember....when their threat stops, you MUST stop or else you get into trouble




Be nice until its time to not be nice 

[hawkchucker]

Well If I cant bring my Glock I aint going. 

[Flash]

Well If I cant bring my Glock I aint going. 

We don't want you anyway 

[hawkchucker]

No beer for you then when I show up!!!!