Are regular knives overpriced compared to other items?

[dks]

No, I am not talking about the special knife that some maker had to handcraft under the moonlight and spend 3 years polishing its blade and another 5 looking for that special piece of Stag to add to it. I am also not talking about secondary prices, (too) limited editions and so on

I am talking regular production current knives that have a blade and a handle, possibly even a locking mechanism, if they fold, made from easily available steel (even fancier types) that we are asked, and we do, pay 100 to 200 Euro or USD for it. Maybe the lock is extra strong, maybe the blade is extra thick, maybe it is made somewhere where it costs more to make it...

A good multitool, with several blades and decent steel is also around that price and there is visibly more work going into it.  I bought a decent air compressor the other day, which should last me for a long time (with my usage), and it has good steel, many moving parts, has passed pressure tests and other certifications and it was about 100Euro less than what I would pay for a decent knife, these days (European, US made, Swiss, Chinese and so on).  You can get a SEIKO 5, with many moving parts for that price.

Even comparing the US price for a regular LM with the price of a regular, US made Spyderco or Case, or comparing the price of a Victorinox Hunter in Alox with the price of a multiblade offering from them, be it Multitool or a SAK there seems to be a price premium for the knife.

Is it the price of the steel, are knives harder to produce in a factory than other pieces of equipment, be it electronic or a tool?

 

[Alan K.]

here in the U.S. everything is up 20% to 35% higher than it was 2 years ago.  I don't need to say anything else or this will become a political discussion.

[DavisNikolov]

I've always wondered on the prices of Leatherman compared to Spyderco. If the latter were to made the Wave it probably would have cost $400. So it always amuses me when people bash on Leatherman for raising prices $20.

A lot of knife manufacturers choose not to sell their items directly but rather through dealers. Which add their taxes, bills and profit to the price. Victorinox and Leatherman do sell their own stuff themselves, making resellers keep really slim margins. Probably there is the catch.

[PitCarver]

here in the U.S. everything is up 20% to 35% higher than it was 2 years ago.  I don't need to say anything else or this will become a political discussion.

[nate j]

I suppose it depends on how you define “regular” knives.

For under $50 US, you can get yourself a Rough Ryder traditional pattern or a basic SAK (e.g. Spartan, Tinker, Sportsman, Tourist), plus an Old Hickory (butcher or hunting) or a Mora.  Between them, that pair of knives could handle virtually any cutting job suitable for a knife, and would most likely last for many years if not abused.  Of course, there are many more expensive options out there.


There are a number other products than are analogous, in my view:

Watches - If you merely want a watch that accurately displays the time, there are many Timex and Casio models available well under $50.  On the other end of the spectrum, a top-of-the-line model from a well-known luxury brand might run well into five figures or more.

Clothes - If your only objectives are to stay warm and avoid walking around naked, this can be achieved quite economically at Walmart or even Goodwill.  OTOH, a suit, tuxedo, or gown from a top designer can run from a few thousand dollars to $10k+.

Cars - If you are only looking to get from one place to another, a used Honda Civic will do the trick for under $20k.  But if you want to maximize style, comfort, and or performance, you can easily spend six figures on many commonly available luxury vehicles, or seven figures for one of the world’s fastest sports cars.


Do the differences in performance, style, and capabilities justify the cost differences among the different options in these categories?  Where is the “sweet spot”? Each person must answer for themselves…

[GearedForwards]

There's a lot of factors at play but I think one of the big ones you need to consider here is this:

The materials typically used in multitools, and from my experience the fit and finish, wouldn't fly in the knife world at the prices you buy multitools at. And when you start to actually see decent steel used for blades, the price shoots up just look at how leatherman treats 154CM of all things.

MTs are just by and large, not the same kind of product, we tolerate actions and build quality in them that dedicated knives just wouldn't fly with.

And I say this as primarily a knife guy that thinks some brands are just plain overpriced.

Ideally I'd like to see more modern steel used in Vic and LM tools, but I just don't think it's realistic to expect that, and certainly not at a sane price.

[GearedForwards]

Watches - If you merely want a watch that accurately displays the time, there are many Timex and Casio models available well under $50.  On the other end of the spectrum, a top-of-the-line model from a well-known luxury brand might run well into five figures or more.

The thing that utterly befuddles me about watches is that to a very, very real extent the more money you spend the worse of a watch you get until you finally go beyond the pale.

Quartz movements were invented for a reason, they're more durable, cheaper, and keep better time (for the most part) than a mechanical watch.

I do plan to get more into watches at some point, but I just can't see myself spending on mechanical watches when I could get really fancy Citizens and Casios that keep time better for a fraction of the price.

[dks]

here in the U.S. everything is up 20% to 35% higher than it was 2 years ago.  I don't need to say anything else or this will become a political discussion.

If everything has gone up then the comparison between them still stands, on  whether one is better value for money than others.  I think you will be surprised by the current inflation in Europe, incidentally.

[dks]

The Swisstools have a walk and talk that could rival many knives in their price range, and have it on several implements.

I also do not think the change in steel justifies the increase in prices we see in some knives (within the same lines sometimes), including the Damasteel editions of Victorinox (limited to a few thousands)

[GearedForwards]

The Swisstools have a walk and talk that could rival many knives in their price range, and have it on several implements.

I also do not think the change in steel justifies the increase in prices we see in some knives (within the same lines sometimes), including the Damasteel editions of Victorinox (limited to a few thousands)

Walk and talk is slipjoint lingo and, to be frank, slipjoints are not the pinnacle of knife action, nor are they expensive to do well. You can get great slipjoint actions for SAK prices, nevermind Swisstool pricing.

In SAKs and MTs it's very much price gouging, in dedicated knives it depends on the company and steel.

[dks]

I find the Swisstool action, if you do not like walk and talk, to be very satisfying and precise. On all its implements. If you compare the cost to a good non-slipjoint knife with only one implement then it is value for money, though by no means cheap.

I gave examples of other mass manufactured products that have to meet certain standards to be sold and have good enough materials that cost about the same as a decent knife. I am looking at chainsaws, from OK companies that are between 100 to 200 Euro and they too come with a cutting implement and have several safety systems in them.

[pfrsantos]

Wanna talk overpriced? Prescription glasses. Two pieces of glass, some metal pieces and screws, can go for as much as a top notch smartphone.

 

[GearedForwards]

I find the Swisstool action, if you do not like walk and talk, to be very satisfying and precise. On all its implements. If you compare the cost to a good non-slipjoint knife with only one implement then it is value for money, though by no means cheap.

I gave examples of other mass manufactured products that have to meet certain standards to be sold and have good enough materials that cost about the same as a decent knife. I am looking at chainsaws, from OK companies that are between 100 to 200 Euro and they too come with a cutting implement and have several safety systems in them.

The action of anything vaguely like a slipjoint (like the swiss tool implements...) and something that isn't under spring tension are wildly different.

I'm really not seeing your point here, you can by an axe or hand saw cheaper than those chainsaws, it doesn't say anything about the value of the chainsaws. Nor does listing a price say anything about the cost of upkeep of that chainsaw, or how well it actually performs, the associated warranty etc. It's not clear cut.

You're also comparing very different categories of items. EDC knives are luxury items, even if they don't seem to have a lot of bells and whistles, nothing but a functional piece can easily be had for under 30 of whatever local currency. A chainsaw is a working tool, and if you're looking at budget chainsaws then I'm going to assume you're not looking at the 'nice ones' (I assume they exist in all products), you're basically looking at the Moras of chainsaws for the comparison.

[GearedForwards]

Wanna talk overpriced? Prescription glasses. Two pieces of glass, some metal pieces and screws, can go for as much as a top notch smartphone.

 

Feel this pain every couple years 

[dks]

I was actually looking at Ryobi chainsaws and was surprised at how cheap they were.

If you define EDC knives as luxury items then it will make sense, but I am talking about mid range, regular production items, in my first post.

The question is whether their actual sale price has anything to do with their actual production cost or whether they are just way more expensive than they should be - total cost (research, production, reasonable profit and so on) being 20 Euro and selling it for 150 type of situation.

I had to compare them with other manufactured products at similar prices that seem to have a lot more actual cost to produce, compared to a very basic tool like a knife.

[GearedForwards]

I was actually looking at Ryobi chainsaws and was surprised at how cheap they were.

If you define EDC knives as luxury items then it will make sense, but I am talking about mid range, regular production items, in my first post.

The question is whether their actual sale price has anything to do with their actual production cost or whether they are just way more expensive than they should be - total cost (research, production, reasonable profit and so on) being 20 Euro and selling it for 150 type of situation.

I had to compare them with other manufactured products at similar prices that seem to have a lot more actual cost to produce, compared to a very basic tool like a knife.

Looking at them, I have to ask why do you think they're more expensive? They're primarily giant chunks of injection-molded plastic, an electric motor and a blade. They don't even come with a battery as standard. There's simply nothing about them that seems more inherently expensive to produce, especially since they're most likely wholly manufactured in China.

The value you get from a knife is going to depend on a lot of factors, including things that have little to do with the knife itself. Just look at CRKT, they have primarily Chinese made knives, yet what they offer isn't generally on the same level as Chinese OEM brands like Civivi in terms of value and quality. Why? Because they're an American company, it doesn't matter where the knives are made, they still have US employees to pay salary and benefits to.

I don't think the profit margin on knives is especially high across the board, but I do think certain brands are an exception to this:

GEC - the hype over slipjoints is befuddling to me

Chris Reeve - They make a good knife, but let's face it, it's a lot of money for what you get nowadays and a lot of that is the brand.

Benchmade - MAP pricing and butterfly tax.

There are so many costs associated with production and running a company that most reputable knife companies aren't spending their time like Scrooge McDuck.

[Etherealicer]

Looking at them, I have to ask why do you think they're more expensive? They're primarily giant chunks of injection-molded plastic, an electric motor and a blade. They don't even come with a battery as standard. There's simply nothing about them that seems more inherently expensive to produce, especially since they're most likely wholly manufactured in China.

The value you get from a knife is going to depend on a lot of factors, including things that have little to do with the knife itself. Just look at CRKT, they have primarily Chinese made knives, yet what they offer isn't generally on the same level as Chinese OEM brands like Civivi in terms of value and quality. Why? Because they're an American company, it doesn't matter where the knives are made, they still have US employees to pay salary and benefits to.

I don't think the profit margin on knives is especially high across the board, but I do think certain brands are an exception to this:

GEC - the hype over slipjoints is befuddling to me

Chris Reeve - They make a good knife, but let's face it, it's a lot of money for what you get nowadays and a lot of that is the brand.

Benchmade - MAP pricing and butterfly tax.

There are so many costs associated with production and running a company that most reputable knife companies aren't spending their time like Scrooge McDuck.

I wholeheartedly agree on the CRK pricing, it is over the top in today's market, with today's competition... the most overpriced knives today is the AD20.5 though, which shows that hype / demand can generate insane prices. Without the Demko name attached to it, no-one would pay over $100 for that knife.

[pfrsantos]

Wanna see what overprized really is? Check this...

https://www.williamhenry.com/knives.html



 

[dks]

    Are regular knives overpriced compared to other items?

[pfrsantos]

   Are regular knives overpriced compared to other items?

Well, there's a whole lot of models. Maybe that makes them regular?...

 

[Aloha]

I know what you're asking but its challenging to answer.   

[cody6268]

Wanna talk overpriced? Prescription glasses. Two pieces of glass, some metal pieces and screws, can go for as much as a top notch smartphone.

 

I think optometrists make a lot of their money that way. Mine is hard to convince to allow me to have a printed copy of my prescription.

As I'm tired of wearing fitovers or goggles, I needed prescription safety glasses, which my optometrist doesn't sell. Their supplier went bankrupt, and before that, they were offered to power company or railroad employees only. My regular glasses were the overpriced ones from my optometrist. I couldn't make it out to my optometrist's office at the time. I even mentioned that specifically, and they said they could only fax it to me, or I could go to the office to pick it up. Last time I asked for it at the office, it was incomplete.

I think places like Zenni and Warby Parker, among others, are really giving optometrists a run for their money, and that's why. Even Walmart is giving them competition.

[Aloha]

Theres pretty much one frame manufacturer till Warby Parker came about.  Not sure about Zenni.  As for getting your prescription, I used to have a hard time getting mine then I changed optometrist.  That was many many years ago.  We are paying for a exam which needs to include our prescription.  Any optometrist that doesn't hand one over is IMO not worth going to . 

I recently got new glasses at Walmart and while I am happy with my first experience the selection was limited at the store.  Walmart online frames are a secondary seller so you don't get all the warranty you would at the store ( this is what I was told ).

I have a friend who has used both Warby Parker and Zenni with really good results.  I am hesitant only because I wonder how they get the lenses perfectly centered?  The sweet spot that is.

Both companies are giving the Lux something company a good run since they are the only manufacturer of frames.  I don't believe there is any other company making frames? 

 

[SteveC]

I got my progreesive lenses at Costco and they were pretty reasonable compared to other places and had a pretty good selection of frames.. My insurance covered my Bifocals at my optometrist but the frame selection was very limited for those that were covered.

[Aloha]

  Good to know. 

[comis]

Looking at them, I have to ask why do you think they're more expensive? They're primarily giant chunks of injection-molded plastic, an electric motor and a blade. They don't even come with a battery as standard. There's simply nothing about them that seems more inherently expensive to produce, especially since they're most likely wholly manufactured in China.

The value you get from a knife is going to depend on a lot of factors, including things that have little to do with the knife itself. Just look at CRKT, they have primarily Chinese made knives, yet what they offer isn't generally on the same level as Chinese OEM brands like Civivi in terms of value and quality. Why? Because they're an American company, it doesn't matter where the knives are made, they still have US employees to pay salary and benefits to.

I don't think the profit margin on knives is especially high across the board, but I do think certain brands are an exception to this:

GEC - the hype over slipjoints is befuddling to me

Chris Reeve - They make a good knife, but let's face it, it's a lot of money for what you get nowadays and a lot of that is the brand.

Benchmade - MAP pricing and butterfly tax.

There are so many costs associated with production and running a company that most reputable knife companies aren't spending their time like Scrooge McDuck.

Sometimes I can't help but to wonder how much of the GEC hype is really due to the scarcity of material/production capacity and how much is intentionally created by a small set of sellers.  I think the value is certainly there at their original price, but just not sure whether it will worth 3-10 times more the original prices.  I think this video explain some aspect of knife hypes we see in recent years, and maybe some of the GEC hype could come from that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTp1yCakASI&list=PL0d2KMMul-nc9GxTf9OzVpA0w4ooqijJs&index=8

And back to OP's original question, yes, from a value prospective and what can you do with an inexpensive SAK/MTs, it really doesn't make much sense how much people are willing to pay for just a knife, myself included.

[dks]

GEC do sell for high prices by dealers and in the secondary market, however the actual asking price from GEC itself is very reasonable and they do not make any more money if their knives are sold for more.

They are making knives that they are willing to sell from about 50 to 150 USD (the F&F line is their basic cheap workhorse line). This is good value.

The problem is the middle-men.

[pfrsantos]

Sometimes I can't help but to wonder how much of the GEC hype is really due to the scarcity of material/production capacity and how much is intentionally created by a small set of sellers.  I think the value is certainly there at their original price, but just not sure whether it will worth 3-10 times more the original prices.  I think this video explain some aspect of knife hypes we see in recent years, and maybe some of the GEC hype could come from that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTp1yCakASI&list=PL0d2KMMul-nc9GxTf9OzVpA0w4ooqijJs&index=8

And back to OP's original question, yes, from a value prospective and what can you do with an inexpensive SAK/MTs, it really doesn't make much sense how much people are willing to pay for just a knife, myself included.

 

[nate j]

Perhaps I’m just out of the loop, but it seems to me that it used to be only really established makers (e.g. Sebenza, Randall) who could get away with asking $400 - $500+ for a knife.  Now, it seems like there are lots of knives in that price range, many from makers I’ve never even heard of.

[GearedForwards]

Perhaps I’m just out of the loop, but it seems to me that it used to be only really established makers (e.g. Sebenza, Randall) who could get away with asking $400 - $500+ for a knife.  Now, it seems like there are lots of knives in that price range, many from makers I’ve never even heard of.

Nowadays it's a lot about the materials used and general cost of doing business. Even Spyderco's budget range make me look twice since I'm still used to their pricing 10+ years ago.