NOT pleased with leatherman

[DaveK]

$200+ tools that are not as well put together as $5 tools is a recipe for bankruptcy & narky customers.I think it is safe to say that far too many Charges are leaving Portland with files that rub & a smaller number have lock issues.

Are you really saying that you believe that Charges are not as well put together as $5 tools? I'll take a few of those $5 tools from you then please. Hell, if they're better put together than Charges, I'll pay double.

Let's keep a little bit of reality in these posts guys, it'll help your arguments IMO.

Except from the Leatherman website FAQ.

"Why should I buy a Leatherman tool?
Tim Leatherman's standards for quality, durability, precision and attention to detail are what make Leatherman tools like no other. Ever since Tim invented the category, we've focused on just one thing — manufacturing the world's highest quality multipurpose tools."

We have a right to expect performance, precision and quality.

Of course we do. And if you aren't happy with it then the warranty will look after you. And, as I've pointed out already, I have (I think) more 'perfect' Charges in my own collection than defective ones that people have managed to list on the increasing number of "Charge bashing" threads on the go at the moment.

It's a bloody tool, not fine jewellery 

That's not aimed at you specifically Crouton, more at the angry mob sharpening their pitch-forks above. 

[Crouton]

It's all good Dave, I love to see a good debate.  

[MultiMat]

$200+ tools that are not as well put together as $5 tools is a recipe for bankruptcy & narky customers.I think it is safe to say that far too many Charges are leaving Portland with files that rub & a smaller number have lock issues.

Are you really saying that you believe that Charges are not as well put together as $5 tools? I'll take a few of those $5 tools from you then please. Hell, if they're better put together than Charges, I'll pay double.

Let's keep a little bit of reality in these posts guys, it'll help your arguments IMO.

How about we bring some impartiality too the argument Dave
OK , how about my $0.99 Paul Chen is better put together than the 3 Titanium Charges I have owned. The Paul Chen operates faultlessly, every thing works on it as it should.Is it a better tool than the Charges NO , is it made with better materials NO. But if I was to fill out a survey giving feed back I would say "great stuff Mr Chen you sold me a tool that works great with no problems". The titanium Charges are very expensive MT's across the board , I have a right to expect this very expensive tool will operate as well as my $50 Spirit , my $60 SOG PPP. Given that Charges cost almost double what most MT's cost I think I am well justified in expecting them to be better than opposition when it comes to them performing as they should. 3 out of 3 have files that rub & one of the TTi's linner locks would often not engage .

Dave I love Leatherman tools all of them are great. The only ones I have ever had a problem with is the 3 Titanium Charges . It is clear to me that they are leaving the factory with issues.Given the $ they charge for them they should be made to standard as, good/better than their Kick , not worse.

Dave if Victorinox's Swisstools had a problem with rubbing files or lock's that were a bit iffy you would be all over them . Dave , Leatherman is not perfect .
You owe me $1.98 for my Paul Chen

[Mr. Whippy]

It is interesting. My ALX has a spacer on the file and the saw.  There is no way they'd be able to rub.  On my Wave Damascus, there is no spacer on either.  (No rubbing either, btw). 

I suspect (since I don't own a TTi) there is no spacer on the Charge TTi files, and therefore there is less clearance.  Someone mentioned that the TTi is thinner than the ALX, so perhaps that's the problem.   

Then again, maybe most people who purchase them don't really use them and don't notice the rub.  If it were as big a problem as it appears here on MT.O, I suspect LM would simply add a small spacer--end of problem.

jmo

[AHB]

I LOVE MY CHARGE.... 
The only issue on my XTI is the file rubbing, but I got it "used" in perfect condition, so I'm very happy with it...
But if I payed the 325$ for an new TTI here, I would be the most annoying costumer LM have ever had. 
I can't wait to get my Charge TI this week...

[DaveK]

$200+ tools that are not as well put together as $5 tools is a recipe for bankruptcy & narky customers.I think it is safe to say that far too many Charges are leaving Portland with files that rub & a smaller number have lock issues.

Are you really saying that you believe that Charges are not as well put together as $5 tools? I'll take a few of those $5 tools from you then please. Hell, if they're better put together than Charges, I'll pay double.

Let's keep a little bit of reality in these posts guys, it'll help your arguments IMO.

How about we bring some impartiality too the argument Dave
OK , how about my $0.99 Paul Chen is better put together than the 3 Titanium Charges I have owned. The Paul Chen operates faultlessly, every thing works on it as it should.Is it a better tool than the Charges NO , is it made with better materials NO. But if I was to fill out a survey giving feed back I would say "great stuff Mr Chen you sold me a tool that works great with no problems". The titanium Charges are very expensive MT's across the board , I have a right to expect this very expensive tool will operate as well as my $50 Spirit , my $60 SOG PPP. Given that Charges cost almost double what most MT's cost I think I am well justified in expecting them to be better than opposition when it comes to them performing as they should. 3 out of 3 have files that rub & one of the TTi's linner locks would often not engage .

Dave I love Leatherman tools all of them are great. The only ones I have ever had a problem with is the 3 Titanium Charges . It is clear to me that they are leaving the factory with issues.Given the $ they charge for them they should be made to standard as, good/better than their Kick , not worse.

OK - if that's how you want to play it - I got one of my Charges for free. The Paul Chen is not a $5 tool, or even close.

As I already said (several times now), if you have issues with the Charges, then get them sorted under warranty, or stop buying them if you don't think they represent value for money. But the fact that you have a very limited number of tools that have some problems, doesn't actually mean that Leatherman's QC across the range is poor. It just means that you got some with problems, you need to get some perspective (IMO).

Dave if Victorinox's Swisstools had a problem with rubbing files or lock's that were a bit iffy you would be all over them . Dave , Leatherman is not perfect .

What a completely ridiculous thing to say. If there's one thing that pisses me off more than the frequent hysterical behaviour on this forum, it's people who tell me what I would do, or how I would do it. If you actually read my posts, I think you'll find that this petty point scoring between the different brands is a game that I simply don't play.

I prefer Leatherman's tools for very simple reasons. For my needs, they perform better and in particular I have 10 Charges which are all perfect from a QC point of view. I resent the suggestion that I would "be all over" another brand of tool if it had QC problems - that's just a desperate statement which you will find no evidence to support.

Unlike many people on this forum, I do not slate other brands. I do not jump in and tell every new poster that the tool they're asking for advice on is a poor choice and "you should get a Vic". And, I don't post poorly researched "facts" that amount to sweeping statements based on usually very limited personal experiences.

I'm one of the very few people on here who will stick their neck out and point out that the USA and Switzerland don't have a monopoly on "quality tools", and am completely impartial about all of these things.

Neither do I have shares in Leatherman Tool Group, or receive a commission for every Charge sold, so your intimation that I might be being biased and not impartial is frankly patronising and an insult to my intelligence. In fact, I'd quite like you to acknowledge that please.

[max6166]

I was just musing whether the Charge may indeed be more error-prone, but simply because its design is much more complicated than other MTs.

The pivots at the plier end of the handles are much more intricate than most tools, and that is also where the 2 most common complaints originate: bad liner locks and metal file alignment.

Just a thought... 

[MultiMat]

$200+ tools that are not as well put together as $5 tools is a recipe for bankruptcy & narky customers.I think it is safe to say that far too many Charges are leaving Portland with files that rub & a smaller number have lock issues.

Are you really saying that you believe that Charges are not as well put together as $5 tools? I'll take a few of those $5 tools from you then please. Hell, if they're better put together than Charges, I'll pay double.

Let's keep a little bit of reality in these posts guys, it'll help your arguments IMO.

How about we bring some impartiality too the argument Dave
OK , how about my $0.99 Paul Chen is better put together than the 3 Titanium Charges I have owned. The Paul Chen operates faultlessly, every thing works on it as it should.Is it a better tool than the Charges NO , is it made with better materials NO. But if I was to fill out a survey giving feed back I would say "great stuff Mr Chen you sold me a tool that works great with no problems". The titanium Charges are very expensive MT's across the board , I have a right to expect this very expensive tool will operate as well as my $50 Spirit , my $60 SOG PPP. Given that Charges cost almost double what most MT's cost I think I am well justified in expecting them to be better than opposition when it comes to them performing as they should. 3 out of 3 have files that rub & one of the TTi's linner locks would often not engage .

Dave I love Leatherman tools all of them are great. The only ones I have ever had a problem with is the 3 Titanium Charges . It is clear to me that they are leaving the factory with issues.Given the $ they charge for them they should be made to standard as, good/better than their Kick , not worse.

OK - if that's how you want to play it - I got one of my Charges for free. The Paul Chen is not a $5 tool, or even close.

As I already said (several times now), if you have issues with the Charges, then get them sorted under warranty, or stop buying them if you don't think they represent value for money. But the fact that you have a very limited number of tools that have some problems, doesn't actually mean that Leatherman's QC across the range is poor. It just means that you got some with problems, you need to get some perspective (IMO).

Dave if Victorinox's Swisstools had a problem with rubbing files or lock's that were a bit iffy you would be all over them . Dave , Leatherman is not perfect .

What a completely ridiculous thing to say. If there's one thing that pisses me off more than the frequent hysterical behaviour on this forum, it's people who tell me what I would do, or how I would do it. If you actually read my posts, I think you'll find that this petty point scoring between the different brands is a game that I simply don't play.

I prefer Leatherman's tools for very simple reasons. For my needs, they perform better and in particular I have 10 Charges which are all perfect from a QC point of view. I resent the suggestion that I would "be all over" another brand of tool if it had QC problems - that's just a desperate statement which you will find no evidence to support.

Unlike many people on this forum, I do not slate other brands. I do not jump in and tell every new poster that the tool they're asking for advice on is a poor choice and "you should get a Vic". And, I don't post poorly researched "facts" that amount to sweeping statements based on usually very limited personal experiences.

I'm one of the very few people on here who will stick their neck out and point out that the USA and Switzerland don't have a monopoly on "quality tools", and am completely impartial about all of these things.

Neither do I have shares in Leatherman Tool Group, or receive a commission for every Charge sold, so your intimation that I might be being biased and not impartial is frankly patronising and an insult to my intelligence. In fact, I'd quite like you to acknowledge that please.

OK Dave . I have always admired your resistance too the China bashing that occurs here. And I will cop that I was unfair regarding the "all over " Victorinox comment. But Dave I have always found it surprising how personally you take any criticism of Leatherman, they make tools & they do get it wrong some times , like every other manufacturer.
Lets drop the Paul Chen analogy , I could go into  any hard ware store & pick up / use a $5 pliers.Chances are it would perform & work faultlessly nothing would catch or stick. I reckon even one of those really cheap  no name $5 multi tools would operate smoothly with their tools deploying with out catching or rubbing. I expect my Charges to meet a minimum standard & a file that rubs against the tool is unacceptable. The TTi's blade that some times did not lock was plan dangerous.
I did a quick search & found 12 other members that have/had Charges with files that drag across the tool(I am sure there are a lot more too). I also found another 3 members that commented about faulty linerlocks. Nikko has also come across many Charge's that have file rubbing & have issues with their linner locks.
I have not questioned QC across their range , quite the opposite I have over 20 Leatherman & all of them are made assembled with out fault. The Charge is meant to be the top line tool in the Leatherman range & yet it is the worst assembled Leatherman I & others have owned .The file scrapping has occurred in the Xti , Ti & TTi. So it is not a new issue. I would resent having to spend more $ on a $100us+ tool to have it sent in to be fixed. I fixed the TTi's poor lock up before trading to Medic. I got the Xti & Ti as part of my retired Leatherman collection. So Dave yes I will not buy any more Charges but I still would like Leatherman to produce them too the same standard that they achieve with the rest of their range.
Dave I apologize for causing offense.I will say again though Leatherman is not perfect & I am not alone on that front.
Mat.

[DaveK]

.....But Dave I have always found it surprising how personally you take any criticism of Leatherman, .......

Do you? That's another ridiculous statement. The fact that you think I might is precisely the insult to my intelligence that I mentioned before.

If people are typing generalised rubbish about Leatherman tools, Gerber tools, chinese manufacturing, or anything else that I find at odds with reality, I think you'll find that I'm pretty consistent in expressing my contempt about it.

There have been a couple of statements lately on here about what I like / dislike, and in neither case was there any substance.

[665ae]

I am no longer amused by this argument.  In fact, it's starting to piss me off.

Stop it, or take it to PM's.  If it continues here, the topic will be locked.

[Grant Lamontagne]

Got to agree with Mikey here, this thread is getting less and less constructive as time goes by.  Someone had an issue with a tool and voiced their opinion here, which is what a forum is for.  Agree or disagree, but lets try to keep it positive and friendly, ok?  The Internet is not worth getting upset about- there's things in real life to get pissed off at!   

Def

[DaveK]

I am no longer amused by this argument.  In fact, it's starting to piss me off.

  Do what you need to.

Agree or disagree, but lets try to keep it positive and friendly, ok?  The Internet is not worth getting upset about....

Who's getting upset? I'm certainly not. I haven't been unfriendly either, I've just posted a reasoned rebuttal to some things said about me, which I've surely got a right to do?

Not that it matters in fact, I've had enough anyway.

[MultiMat]

I am no longer amused by this argument.  In fact, it's starting to piss me off.

Stop it, or take it to PM's.  If it continues here, the topic will be locked.

Agreed & done.

[665ae]

Not that it matters in fact, I've had enough anyway.

Is that the old "you can't fire me because I quit!" type response?      

[J-sews]

I vote we end this discussion right here. Any naysayers? No? Very well then, motion carried.

[665ae]

Locking a topic can't stop me!!!