US multitool vs China multitool

[doggydog]

Check out the comparison of a US mtultitool vs China made multitool.  What are your thoughts on this topic?  You pay for what you get    Damn good reason to invest in products made in USA!!!  Why do companies sacrifice quality by sending it overseas?  I understand it is cheaper labor, but still...  Snap-On is also making multitools and it is also made in China.  Even some Gerber are China made.

[jekostas]

Okay, so you're saying useful insight can be gleaned from comparing a $15 store brand cheapo multitool to an $80 premium multitool (probably more because it's a special edition)?

Sorry, UTTER BS.

You want a real comparison, compare a MUT or Surge to a Multitasker multitool.  This is useless.

[PyroJames]

Okay, so you're saying useful insight can be gleaned from comparing a $15 store brand cheapo multitool to an $80 premium multitool (probably more because it's a special edition)?

Sorry, UTTER BS.

You want a real comparison, compare a MUT or Surge to a Multitasker multitool.  This is useless.

I agree with this post.  It's not a fair assessment to compare a cheapie tool to a premium tool.  It would be better to compare a genuine premium MT to an identical knock-off. (ie: LM Wave vs Mammoth "Wave") 

[Gadget Guy]

Here we go again!    Let's see who else I'll put on ignore after this thread is done.     I already can't see a couple of posts.   

[lovenhim]

I was raised to believe by my dad that stuff from China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, etc is junk....period.  Now I am not saying that he is right or that his thoughts that influenced my thinking are PC or correct, but I do somehow feel this way.  My Quark 123X2 is not built as nice as my Surefire 6P is.  My China toolkit that I keep in my wife's car for an emergency is not as nice as my Craftsman tools. 
     On the other side of the coin, my Spyderco Tenacious which is made in China is one heck of a knife and a great value.  Heck the computers we are using are pretty much made in China. 
     I am torn.  I live in the USA and I am somewhat patriotic meaning that I would "prefer" when I can to buy a US made item.  I would prefer a Buck knife made here rather than one from China.  I would prefer owning a Ford over a Kia.  That being said, I honestly think it is down to the designer and the manufacture says "we want this knife made to these standards"....and China can do it cheaper than we can for similar quality....spec for spec.
     I still try and buy from the US even if it costs a few $$$ more.  Taurus makes a fine handgun, but I would rather pay a little more and own a S&W.  I will be honest, my default thinking when I see "made in China" is to think that "yeah it is most likely junk".....but I think I need to change my thinking while still holding to my belief in US made items.   

[jekostas]

I was raised to believe by my dad that stuff from China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, etc is junk....period.

Here's my problem with this view - things can change, and change quickly.  Your father told you all those things because when he was growing up, entering the workforce, buying durable goods for his home and to raise his family, it was likely true.  It's likely a deep-seated belief that was developed over many, many years.

The problem starts to arise when we step back a generation.  While your father told you stuff from China, Hong Kong and Taiwan are junk, his father was likely telling him the same thing about things from Japan.  Post WWII, this WAS the reality of Japan - for 15-20 years, they made low quality crap to sell to foreign markets and for many years the reputation of Japanese goods was "junk".  However, it also allowed Japan to not only make an enormous amount of cash, but learn the intricacies of metallurgy, durable goods manufacturing, quality control and to massively upgrade their infrastructure and manufacturing capabilities.  Guess what?  By the time the late 70s and all through the 80s, Japanese innovation and manufacturing massively outpaced the US and Canada.  Japanese computers, cars, electronics and manufactured goods were starting to be considered top notch, a view that persist to this day.  However, the US was able to get back in to competitive manufacturing due to easier access to raw goods and a larger (and much stronger) government willing to cut taxes to provide incentives for capital upgrades.

Fast forward 20 years, we see the same sort of thing happening in China, but even faster.  Not only can China crank out tons of garbage to pay the bills, US companies have been going to China for 15 years now, using them as manufacturers but in the process teaching them first hand all the manufacturing knowledge necessary for maintaining and choosing machines, quality control, setting up manufacturing lines and all the controls and processes necessary.  Not only that, investments by US and Japanese companies in every conceivable sector (durable goods, mining and forestry, electronics, goods manufacturing) have essentially underwritten massive capital and infrastructure upgrades in China.  China can make quality goods because the US and Japan essentially taught them *everything* there is to know about manufacturing.

If the North American view of China's manufacturing capability doesn't change (and I say North America because I include Canada and to some extent Mexico in this), in 10 years we could face a situation like North America faced with Japanese dominance, but with a much stronger opponent. 

I have no problem with the view of wanting to support local industry when choosing products - it's a view I take I as well.  However, simply dismissing China as "incapable" has very dangerous long-term repercussions.

[J-sews]

Well said jekostas  

The fact is, China can already make most anything that North America can, with equal quality, and they can do it cheaper. (if that's what their customer specifies)

[scrappy]

In general a usa multi tool is better than a china multi and that is because you get what you pay for.china sells cheap tools because that is what companies want. It is all about money but some tools out of china are amazing. You need to pay a decent price. Both arguments have some points but I think it is more about money than location, I think multitasker and the new sogs are amazing.

[dks]

..and lets not forget the LM Micra, I have several of the US made and several of the, newer, Chinese made, though some people would probably "ignore" the fact that the micra is now made in China.

Apart from a slight difference in the handles finish (US ones have a more "brushed" look) they are the same; I would actually say that with the Chinese ones being newer they are actually better value if bought used, since thay are less damaged.

Too identical items, made in two different countries and coming out with the same, good, quality. If you are going to compare fairly the products of two countries (not the politics) then you need to choose products that are as close in price and specifications as possible.

[MultiMat]

You sure the Micra is now made in China  .


The Multitasker in many ways is setting the benchmark in 'quality' + innovation in the production of the modern multitool.
It is made entirely in China I believe.

If a customer wants a cheap tool or for that matter cheap anything China has & will service that demand.

I bet Leatherman is keeping a VERY close eye on its Chinese competition, the level of quality the Multitasker is achieving for the price it costs is hard to believe. 

[Chako]

Yes, that video is BS. I agree with jekostas on this one. I don't need to add more, he has done a good job with his replies...and he is right.

[edcgear]

Yes, that video is BS. I agree with jekostas on this one. I don't need to add more, he has done a good job with his replies...and he is right.

+1 

[dks]

You sure the Micra is now made in China  .

That is my understanding  , that is why older leatherman Micra say Leatherman USA on the scissors whereas the newer ones say Leatherman Tool. I have, however,  been known to be wrong before once or twice. [/s]

[MultiMat]

Leatherman had to drop the USA from their MT's due to a bunch of lawyers in California doing their 'thing'  .

If it is not 100% made in the USA you can not put USA on a product sold in California, I think  .
Items like the pliers & files have at one time or another been made outside the US for Leatherman.
A bit silly really.

A post here goes into the nuts n bolts a bit more http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,5877.msg487383.html#msg487383   

[dks]

I looked at it.... so the micra may be made in China but assembled in the US....  as I said i was under the, strong, impression that it was totally made in china, but I do not remember where I heard/read it. 

I am sure the leatherman experts will tell us soon. 


OK, I checked on the box of a New Micra I have and it says Made in USA ! 

I dont know if that means totally made or assembled, but I assume it means it is 100% US made!

[Gadget Guy]

Yes, that video is BS. I agree with jekostas on this one. I don't need to add more, he has done a good job with his replies...and he is right.

He is right, in your opinion.   

[ducktapehero]

I bet Chinese waffles are good. Maybe...do they have waffles in China? If not ice cream will work. 

[Gadget Guy]

I like waffles...   

[enki_ck]

I looked at it.... so the micra may be made in China but assembled in the US....  as I said i was under the, strong, impression that it was totally made in china, but I do not remember where I heard/read it. 

I am sure the leatherman experts will tell us soon. 


OK, I checked on the box of a New Micra I have and it says Made in USA ! 

I dont know if that means totally made or assembled, but I assume it means it is 100% US made!

Ok, I see you corrected your post. but to make things clear. No part of a Leatherman tool was ever made in China. In the lawsuit they tried to compare Chinese made multitools and leatherman tool when deciding what fine Leatherman should pay.

Here is an extract from the lawsuit describing where some of the parts were made.

...showing that the components incorporated into the
Leatherman tools at issue underwent manufacturing processes outside the United States. 
These components included:  a file that was fineblanked in Switzerland and that had its
teeth cut and hardened in Switzerland or Austria; plier jaws, Phillips screwdrivers, bolster
file sides, and bolster knife sides that were investment cast in Mexico; a clip plate that
was fineblanked, deburred, formed, hardened, and polished in Switzerland; a locking T
that was fineblanked and hardened in Switzerland; a bit holder that was machined in
Canada; a saw blade that had its profile cut in Switzerland or Germany and that was
fineblanked and hardened in Switzerland; handles that were fineblanked in Switzerland; a
serrated knife blade that was fineblanked in Switzerland; and corkscrews that were
forged, coiled, hardened, and polished in France.  The components that underwent
foreign processing were incorporated, in varying combinations, into the 22 Leatherman
tools at issue.  The plier jaws that were investment cast in Mexico were included in 20 of
the 22 Leatherman tools, and the Phillips screwdrivers were included in 19 of the 22
tools.

So no China, just Mexico, Switzerland, Germany, Austria, France and Canada.
And the whole 45 pages of it if someone is interested.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/californiastatecases/b176953.pdf

[Woz]

I have used US made crap and Chinese made quality goods, as well as US made quality goods and Chinese crap. From my experience, the times where most Chinese stuff was poor quality are over. It does not matter where something was made, as long as a company has good QC they can produce great quality everywhere.

[jekostas]

I have used US made crap and Chinese made quality goods, as well as US made quality goods and Chinese crap. From my experience, the times where most Chinese stuff was poor quality are over. It does not matter where something was made, as long as a company has good QC they can produce great quality everywhere.

Exactly.  I mean, CRKT and Kershaw provide lifetime warranties on all of their Chinese made knives and tools because they have a strong enough corporate philosophy and good quality control.

Of course, the long term repercussions of that strategy are starting to be felt now - OEMs used by those companies (notably SanRenMu) are starting to gain widespread acceptance abroad due to their ability to provide quality products at extremely low pricing.  Guess what?  That ability to provide good quality is because Buck, CRKT, Kershaw and Spyderco taught them how to do it, and they can provide super-low pricing because those companies paid for all the machinery!

[Styerman]

Chinese plants can produce just about any quality you care to spec .They are now one of the major importers of new top of the line industrial plant . Don't sell them short , all that said much of the Chinese product that gets into North America is junk - not the fault of the Chinese , but due to who wrote the spec for whatever they knocked off . I grew un in the fifties and sixties , and remember when Japanese stuff was kneeslappingly funny - days that are long over .

Chris

[powernoodle]

I enjoyed the review, doggydog, as well as your previous one where you looked at the camo Surge and Charge Tti.

[maximus0723]

The goat sounds in the back?
-----------------------------------
Anyways, here is China for you

[PyroJames]

Oh my, that's an amazing shovel. 

[Chako]

Why do I get a chuckle every time I see that video? 

[Woz]

I want a group buy of this shovel!

[Fisting_Chili]

Hahaha!  That is like comparing

this


to this

[ducktapehero]

Am I the only one who likes the little orange car better?

[Malarauko]

Yeah. No offence to you Americans but your cars are kinda sucky. Loud and big. Thats your two defining qualities. Except for the Chevvy Z6. Man that thing rocked.