Another giant goes down

Grant Lamontagne · **on:** February 10, 2012, 12:56:16 AM

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203824904577212873966942132.html

I know this has been coming for a while but it's still sad to see a big, established company like Kodak go down. I have had three Kodak digital cameras, and my Kodak z650 is responsible for pretty well all of our SHOT coverage and reviews for the last 6 years or so.

Kodak will try to survive as a smaller photo printer company which is a shadow of it's former self. Sad, but that's the world we live in. It's never easy to see an icon disappear.

Def

Ashley · **Reply #1 on:** February 10, 2012, 01:30:01 AM

all my cameras are kodak. I also hate to see such a company fall.

Sent from Ash forum mobile

Mr. Whippy · **Reply #2 on:** February 10, 2012, 01:53:51 AM

The saddest parts are

1. Kodak was a very solid corporate citizen and took care of its employees and retirees.

2. They actually invented the digital camera, but failed to see the tidal wave before it was too late.

Kodak is/was a great company and I'm sorry to see such an icon fall.

nuphoria · **Reply #3 on:** February 10, 2012, 02:15:50 AM

Wow... that's a real shame.

My first 35mm when I was a kid, was a Kodak. It's almost a metonym for photo in my head

Pacu · **Reply #4 on:** February 10, 2012, 02:22:24 AM

My dad worked for Eastman Kodak for years..it split off to become Eastman Chemical after Kodak started going south in the late 90s.

Heinz Doofenshmirtz · **Reply #5 on:** February 10, 2012, 02:31:25 AM

Yeah, that's a drag. Unfortunately it's the name of the game in business now days. New technology comes along, and those who don't have the vision to see what it can become are the ones who get left out.

Just look at RIM and Nokia. RIM is going down the tubes and will be belly up in less than two years at the rate they're going, unless they can pull a rabbit out of their hat that sells well. And Nokia is also a shadow of its former self... they still sell more cheap flip phones than anyone else, but there's no profit in that. If they too can't pull a rabbit out of their hat, they're going to become the Dell of cell phone manufacturers.

Grant Lamontagne · **Reply #6 on:** February 10, 2012, 02:52:48 AM

I don't feel bad for RIM at all- they lead the charge on the Smartphone revolution then got complacent. There is absolutely no reason for them not to dominate the market with both Android and iOS picking up the scraps. It's one thing when the tech shifts, but to be beaten at the game you pretty well single handedly created? That's pretty dumb.

Polaroid lucked out so perfectly I think they really invented the flux capacitor- they had a 50 year patent on instant cameras, which ran out a year or two before the wave of digital cameras took over. Unfortunately Kodak was one of the companies that tried to jump on the instant picture market rather than trying to break ground in the digital revolution.

I have had a number of digital cameras from a number of brands and I have to say that in my experience, Kodak made some of the finest digital cameras out there. Sure Nikon and Canon were nicer, but in the pro range. Kodak's big body z series was phenomenal- they had great lenses built in and the option to attach others, they had mega zoom and a number of useful preset modes as well as the ability to change all the settings to suit your needs.

When I was younger I had a couple of Kodak cameras, including the Disc, which was perhaps the most popular camera of it's time.

That thing went everywhere with me in high school and I must have spent a small fortune in film and developing for it.

I'd already decided that my next camera will be a Nikon DSLR, but I am going to miss having the option to buy a Kodak for beating around at work.

Def

Heinz Doofenshmirtz · **Reply #7 on:** February 10, 2012, 03:06:31 AM

Hey Def,

I get where you're coming from about RIM... sorry if I seemed to be an apologist for them or anything... I personally think they deserve what they're getting now... And from everything I've read, they still seem to think they can turn things around by continuing to do just what they've been doing, despite it's getting them their a$$e$ handed to them on a platter. If they do end up as a floater in the river, I won't be one shedding any tears.

I never got into Kodak cameras myself actually. I got into B&W in college and learned to develop my own film and make my own prints. Bought an old Canon EOS 10S from a photographer buddy of mine back then, and stayed with it until about 12 years ago when my photo bag got stolen out of my car. At that point I just bought another Canon, an A2, and used that for a few years until the digitals got good enough for me to transition from film and not feel like I was losing something. Since I already had an investment in Canon stuff, I just bought another Canon.

But still, they did pave the way in the industry, and they made some good products. I swore by Tri-X Pan as my favorite B&W film, and Kodak D26 for my developer for a long time. Eventually I got into using Agfa Rodinol for developing but I never found any B&W film I liked better than Tri-X or Plus-X. Too bad those are probably going to go away now too, also relics of a bygone era.

Grant Lamontagne · **Reply #8 on:** February 10, 2012, 03:50:42 AM

Developing film... that one is going the way of "winding a watch" or "taping" anything but Christmas gifts!

Oh yeah, and the old joke about getting a deaf guy a phone.

Def

mvyrmnd · **Reply #9 on:** February 10, 2012, 04:14:49 AM

Kodak have fallen victim to the same thinking that results in most corporate deaths. They have a good product, and make huge dollars, and then get scared they'll lose their money and stop being as brave and exciting as they were when they came up the original product.

It usually boils down to the greed of the board of directors. (Not always, but usually)

RIM have taken the same path, as has already been noted. HP, IBM, and many, many more corporations have gone the same way.

There's a reason that Apple's share price is so high, and is the most valuable company on the planet, and has $100 billion in cash reserves is because of their single-minded drive to keen on innovating. They have a few stumbles here and there, and a few terrible, terrible products, but they don't get scared off, they just pick themselves up and try again.

Even Microsoft has been riding the coat-tails of Windows and Office for all of these years. Since then the only real innovating they've done is the X-Box and associated paraphenalia.

Every company that strikes it rich, and then pulls their head in to try and not lose their new-found cash inevitably fritters it away and goes broke.

Kodak was an iconic company, but they weren't brave anough to survive.

stressmaster5000 · **Reply #10 on:** February 10, 2012, 04:58:57 AM

I too was a photo buff in the 80's and 90's and I spent a wad of cash on film and processing. Sorry to see this happen to such a company.

Chako · **Reply #11 on:** February 10, 2012, 06:06:13 AM

A lot of folks associated Kodak with cheap cameras. Kodak could never shake that perception. Kodak did many bad decisions with digital, the biggest being they failed to design and implement a camera system of their own. Instead, Kodak decided to partner up with Nikon and Canon in the early days, developing cameras that would use one system or the other. What Kodak failed to realize is that the lenses and system accessories are the real money makers, not the camera bodies.

I have a big soft spot for Kodak. I learned photography first on my dad's old type 44 Retinette 1A that I still have. Now that camera took awesome photographs.

Heinz Doofenshmirtz · **Reply #12 on:** February 10, 2012, 09:09:34 AM

Yeah, developing film... tells you what a freaking fossil I am, doesn't it?

Chako, you're right on the money on the perception of Kodak's cameras. Once I had a Canon, I didn't see how I could go back to 'something like a Kodak'.

Simon, I agree completely about Apple. They're were they are now not because they invented a new widget, but because they have shown they can reinvent widgets in a new way that no one seems to understand until they actual use one, and then realize just how brilliant it is. Their attitude is best expressed in the closing sentence of the commencement speech Jobs gave at Stanford back in '05; "stay hungry, stay foolish". You have to take chances to make something great. That's what Apple does best.

Whoey · **Reply #13 on:** February 10, 2012, 10:36:56 AM

My first digital camera was a Kodak, I chose it for the superior optical zoom vs the digital faux zoom most cameras advertise. My only beef was the battery tray locking tabs broke after a while (considering how it ate batteries, this is a huge issue) and I had to use electrical tape to keep it closed.

After that I went Nikon. And then Nikon DSLR. Now loving my D5100

dks · **Reply #14 on:** February 10, 2012, 11:17:34 AM

Oc course, I saw that coming..

http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,34723.0.html

My first digital was a Kodak Easyshare with 3.1 Mp and a decent zoom. DX6340

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/DX6340/D63A.HTM
Even today, the pictures taken by that camera are very impressive. Solid camera, good colours and resolution, good A4 prints... but I lost it, a few years back..
A couple of months ago I bought an underwater C123, as a present.

Neil · **Reply #15 on:** February 10, 2012, 11:29:15 AM

I've got several old Kodak cameras in a box under the desk. Sadly they are old digital cameras and (think around 1MP) so are worth around the same as a Kodak share

I too had a disc camera, briefly. Worse quality pictures ever! What do you expect from negatives a few mm wide $:-\$

kmanct3 · **Reply #16 on:** February 10, 2012, 01:34:12 PM

We always had Kodak products growing up.My Grandmothers brother died in a kodak factory in upstate NY many many years ago when my Grandparents moved to the states from Ontario. Its a shame to see this happening to business's.

Grant Lamontagne · **Reply #17 on:** February 10, 2012, 02:58:16 PM

Ok, you get the credit for posting it first!

I think we all knew it was inevitable for the past few years, although I did hope that a company I cared about would somehow pull out of the nosedive.

As for Apple, I can recognize their achievements, but their story is no better than anyone else's, just more people believed their hypocrisy more than anyone else's so they succeeded despite themselves. Apple was touted as the computer for hackers but built them in such a way as no hacker could customize them in the least or even get inside one. Hell, with Apple you could be free from Microsoft, the company that allows you choice of manufacturers and configurations, ease of upgrading and personalization- hell, who wants that?

Def

Chain Gang · **Reply #18 on:** February 10, 2012, 06:01:31 PM

I remember the good old days when I processed and developed my Kodak film.It was a lot of fun.My darkroom consisted of a closet and my kitchen with a black plastic garbage bag taped over the window.I still have an old Canon 35 mm camera that has not been used in years.I had fun using filters for special effects and the super long range telephoto lens.Now it's point,shoot,Photoshop,and your done.

Syph007 · **Reply #19 on:** February 10, 2012, 06:30:49 PM

Quote from: Grant Lamontagne on February 10, 2012, 02:58:16 PM

As for Apple, I can recognize their achievements, but their story is no better than anyone else's, just more people believed their hypocrisy more than anyone else's so they succeeded despite themselves. Apple was touted as the computer for hackers but built them in such a way as no hacker could customize them in the least or even get inside one. Hell, with Apple you could be free from Microsoft, the company that allows you choice of manufacturers and configurations, ease of upgrading and personalization- hell, who wants that?

Def

Apple can suck it. Dont tell me what I want, let me choose. And in case people have forgotten, its only since about 2006 they even started to be worth anything... the company was a joke during my formative years learning how to code in school back in the 90's. I still remember how people would spend 3x as much for the same computing power in an apple that I did for a generic pc and somehow I was a moron cuz I wasnt cool.

Mr. Whippy · **Reply #20 on:** February 10, 2012, 06:42:43 PM

Re: Apple.

I was never (and still am not) a fan. However, Microsoft has forced my hand. I have to run a home network, with network printer. My kids got sick and tired of constant updates, viral scares, virus scanning software sucking speed and FINALLY the POS that was Vista. They went from XP to Mac after I had to load XP after wiping the Vista OS. Last year, they were all on Apple and I needed to upgrade. Either I had to learn Win7 or Apple (my systems were still all XP). For ease of administering, I went Mac. It's six of one, 1/2 dozen of the other, but at least everyone is on the same platform.

I much prefer my Android phone to their Iphones however. (and btw, windows mobile was a POS in the HTC touchproII that I had).

dks · **Reply #21 on:** February 10, 2012, 07:11:45 PM

Thanks for the, deserved, credit!

I remember in the mid nineties someone was trusted to buy computers for the department and proceeded to buy apples, because HE liked them, though everywhere else there were PCs, and nobody even knew how to use an apple..
He then proceeded to get offended every time he was told how stupid his decision was, insisting on the superiority of the apples (The SAAB effect..).

Long story short the apples were continously used in a PC emulation mode (remember those...) so that people could get their work done..

Syph007 · **Reply #22 on:** February 10, 2012, 08:22:21 PM

I've developed for all the major mobile players and my most enjoyable experience was targeting android devices. Good environment, free, and large audience. I do remember pocket pc and win mobile back in the day and it was less fun to target. In early 2000 I wrote and sold science software to schools (US and Australia) and there were a few pilot projects using windows handheld devices, this was WIN CE 2.0... awkward and low powered devices to code for and use and I was forcing molecular drawing with ball and stick back before there was any chance of 3D acceleration on mobile devices. So.. my pick is android for the future of mobile dev.

Here's some of my high tech screen shots from way back when.. don't laugh people did actually PAY me for this stuff. lol. but it was before online app sales were ruined by apple and people expecting everything to be $1. I sold it for $20 !! It looks sad compared to a modern app, but back in 2001 this was hot stuff!

Mr. Whippy · **Reply #23 on:** February 10, 2012, 08:29:17 PM

Heh.

I still have a Casio Casseopeia E115 up on a shelf. I was a big fan of StarTap apps. Really innovative stuff from them.

Syph007 · **Reply #24 on:** February 10, 2012, 08:31:04 PM

Quote from: Mr. Whippy on February 10, 2012, 08:29:17 PM

Heh.

I still have a Casio Casseopeia E115 up on a shelf. I was a big fan of StarTap apps. Really innovative stuff from them.

My favorite from back then was an EM 500. The buttons were configured perfectly for NES emulation!

Neil · **Reply #25 on:** February 10, 2012, 09:05:00 PM

I hated using those old pocket PCs compared to Palms and Psions but those shiny bright TFT Casio screens were sooo tempting and they had CF slots. Alas, getting anything actually done on them without the stylus permanently wedged in the reset hole was a different matter

On a related topic would someone please please please port the Psion Agenda to a modern platform. I don't mean something similar, I mean a straight port. Its still the best pocket electronic diary I've ever used by some margin.

Grant Lamontagne · **Reply #26 on:** February 10, 2012, 09:08:25 PM

With regards to Apple, I have no particular dislike for them. I'm a PC user and always have been, although for work reasons I have been recently informed that I will be changing. My response was "As long as I'm not buying the machine." For the price of a Macbook I can have several PC's with the same spec.

There are things I don't like about Apple, but there are also things I don't like about my PC, but it has suited my needs longer than anything else. I like the ability to change or upgrade my configuration, such as larger hard drives, different optical drives, adding more memory etc, and I don't like the idea of buying a whole new (IMHO overpriced) computer if I want to upgrade from a DVD-R to a Blu Ray.

Of course that compete control over the hardware allows the software to be tailor made so that it works seamlessly not only with the software but with other devices that are also under that rigid control. That is a good thing for people who don't have any desire to fiddle or upgrade or for people who simply don't know how to use a computer.

It's kind of like trucks- if you want a machine that will do what you want with a minimum amount of fuss straight off the showroom floor, buy a Toyota. If however you consider a truck as a base for personal expression and want to lift it, put bigger tires on it, screw with the settings for optimal fuel efficiency and power etc, buy a Ford. There's a market for both, and really, no one is better than the other. It's a matter of personal choice.

Def

Heinz Doofenshmirtz · **Reply #27 on:** February 10, 2012, 09:08:45 PM

Quote from: Syph007 on February 10, 2012, 06:30:49 PM

Quote from: Grant Lamontagne on February 10, 2012, 02:58:16 PM

As for Apple, I can recognize their achievements, but their story is no better than anyone else's, just more people believed their hypocrisy more than anyone else's so they succeeded despite themselves. Apple was touted as the computer for hackers but built them in such a way as no hacker could customize them in the least or even get inside one. Hell, with Apple you could be free from Microsoft, the company that allows you choice of manufacturers and configurations, ease of upgrading and personalization- hell, who wants that?

Def

Apple can suck it. Dont tell me what I want, let me choose. And in case people have forgotten, its only since about 2006 they even started to be worth anything... the company was a joke during my formative years learning how to code in school back in the 90's. I still remember how people would spend 3x as much for the same computing power in an apple that I did for a generic pc and somehow I was a moron cuz I wasnt cool.

Apple has the philosophy they do now because they've been forced into it. Look at all the blatant rip-offs of nearly everything they've done. First it was windows, and now Android. Is it any coincidence that Eric Schmidt was on Apple's board, and then Android comes out less than a year after the iPhone comes out? They are now actually defending their IP and people are pissed off at them for that? So in other words, everyone applies a double standard to them; when they protect their products and IP, they're hypocrites, when they don't, they're elitists?

For specialized purposes, there is never any one tool that does everything well. But Apple's market isn't developers, nor are they a software company. That's what people don't understand... the software they make adds value to their hardware products, and Apple is a hardware company, and should be more appropriately compared to other computer makers, not to a company like Monoposoft. As was mentioned about Kodak, they didn't realize the money is in the device, not the consumables or the content. Apple has realized that; the content is there just to sell the hardware, and for some reason, 99.9% of people don't get that.

As for choosing and customizing, when was the last time anyone who isn't an IT or a programmer or an enthusiast actually upgraded their computer? The desire to customize is a dead field, no one outside of a very very very small segment of the market does it. That's why Apple makes the design decisions they do, the actually design their products around the way the majority of people actually use them. People bitched and moaned and screamed about no exchangeable battery in the iPhone, and then in MacBook Pros. But seriously, when was the last time anyone actually carried around a spare battery for their laptop? Or their phone even?

Criticizing Apple is fine, and I'm no fanboy... I've had plenty of issues with them over the years. They can be downright arrogant smurfs. But criticize them for what they are, not what you want them to, or think they should be.

Grant Lamontagne · **Reply #28 on:** February 10, 2012, 09:17:09 PM

Apple stole the concept of GUI from XEROX, so it's really no fair to point out that MS stole it from Apple.

Apple stole the idea of a tablet from Microsoft. And, whatever your thoughts on Windows CE/WinMobile is, MS was in the phone business long before Apple.

Don't believe all the hype fanboys tell you about Apple. They didn't invent a whole heck of a lot, they bought out smarter companies than them that had great ideas or just stole them. Yes, MS did the same thing, but at least MS doesn't claim they did it every time someone turns around.

Def

Mr. Whippy · **Reply #29 on:** February 10, 2012, 09:21:08 PM

Quote from: Heinz Doofenshmirtz on February 10, 2012, 09:08:45 PM

Apple has the philosophy they do now because they've been forced into it. Look at all the blatant rip-offs of nearly everything they've done. First it was windows, and now Android. Is it any coincidence that Eric Schmidt was on Apple's board, and then Android comes out less than a year after the iPhone comes out? They are now actually defending their IP and people are pissed off at them for that? So in other words, everyone applies a double standard to them; when they protect their products and IP, they're hypocrites, when they don't, they're elitists?

For specialized purposes, there is never any one tool that does everything well. But Apple's market isn't developers, nor are they a software company. That's what people don't understand... the software they make adds value to their hardware products, and Apple is a hardware company, and should be more appropriately compared to other computer makers, not to a company like Monoposoft. As was mentioned about Kodak, they didn't realize the money is in the device, not the consumables or the content. Apple has realized that; the content is there just to sell the hardware, and for some reason, 99.9% of people don't get that.

As for choosing and customizing, when was the last time anyone who isn't an IT or a programmer or an enthusiast actually upgraded their computer? The desire to customize is a dead field, no one outside of a very very very small segment of the market does it. That's why Apple makes the design decisions they do, the actually design their products around the way the majority of people actually use them. People bitched and moaned and screamed about no exchangeable battery in the iPhone, and then in MacBook Pros. But seriously, when was the last time anyone actually carried around a spare battery for their laptop? Or their phone even?

Criticizing Apple is fine, and I'm no fanboy... I've had plenty of issues with them over the years. They can be downright arrogant smurfs. But criticize them for what they are, not what you want them to, or think they should be.

Being able to replace the rechargeable battery should not involve taking your computer/phone/mp3 player to an authorized service center. Batteries die from cycling. They just do and it should be a DIY job.

Apple products work great within their narrow parameters. That is all.

Hello Lurker! Remove this ad and much more by logging in.

Another giant goes down

Donations

Community Links