going down the rabbit hole of "expensive" knives....

[WiSAKfan]

first i'll say the most expensive knife i have is my skeletool

after seeing a spyderco paramilitary 2 in a thread here I have had a complete crush on it since, which has led me to search out the other spydies and benchmades on and then i saw there are even more expensive ones...

should i just get a paramilitary 2 and fool myself it will i'll be done or should i avoid the rabbit hole all together?

[cbl51]

I went down the rabbit hole and years later wondered what the hell was I thinking. I went to expensive production, then on to customs. After years of collecting, and finding a lot of disappointment in over priced, over hyped knives, I bailed out. I sold off all I could and went back to carrying a SAK as my edc pocket knife. Sometimes I'll carry an Opinel.

None of the high dollar knives were really worth it. They didn't cut much better than a 15 dollar SAK, if as well. I had a couple of knives that wouldn't hold an edge as well as a Buck pocket knife. That's pretty bad when a 300 dollar custom (1980's price) can't cut as well as a 20 dollar factory knife from a big box sporting goods stores. The custom was a knife made by a  blade smith of the American Bladesmith society. So much for the big name and hype.

Stay out of the rabbit hole and save your money, or better still, put it in secure bonds. For 20 or 30 dollars, or less, you can buy a knife that will do anything you need to do with a knife.

[WiSAKfan]

sobering response, much appreciated

part of the fun is seeing what's out there and i'll continue to do that but your response relaying your experience cooled me off like a cold shower on actually pulling the trigger

thank you

[stealth007s]

If you have the money to spend on things like that there's nothing wrong with going into it. I own a little bit of both sides of this spectrum. I recently got a LM Wingman and Style CS (HD combo pack) and am utterly disappointed. I am a slight believer that if you buy cheap you get cheap with certain things. I wasn't expecting the Wingman or Style CS to fall in this window though. Don't get me wrong in saying that anything you buy cheap isn't good. I am saying that this is the case with some things.

We own several high priced cutlery items and MTs in our house and I must say that if taken care of well, perform outstanding. I know that, when they lose our attention, they tend to slack a bit, as does anything you may not take care of. It seems that the more you spend on an item, the more attention it requires to take care of.

[Northern Geek]

It might be worth your time to check out some of the good Chinese brands as well. There's plenty of threads around about Sanrenmu and Enlan for instance. Cheap as dirt and most people who try them like them a lot.

A good place to find them is www.exduct.com.

There's pretty recent thread by jerseydevil about his collection for instance.

I don't own any Spyderco knives though so I'm not saying that Sanrenmu or Enlan is as good or better, but the two SRM knives I do own (the 710 and the 763) are pretty sweet and, as I said, cheap as dirt.

Plus Sanrenmu makes Spyderco's cheaper chinese models as well if I recall correctly.

[dks]

I do not own any expensive knives but if your heart is set on it then go for it. If you choose wisely you should be able to get most of your money back selling it, if you do not like it.

Just avoid buying lots of cheap knives you do not like and convincing yourself you are saving money. Instead of 10 cheap ones you do not like buy one expensive one you like.

As it was pointed out do not expect a huge performance improvement from a decent cheap knife to an expensive one.

Do your research as you may be able to get the style/lock/steel you want on a cheaper model too.

Have a look at BF too, though make sure you do not get carried away by fans of certain brands or expensive knives.

[theonew]

I went down the rabbit hole and years later wondered what the hell was I thinking. I went to expensive production, then on to customs. After years of collecting, and finding a lot of disappointment in over priced, over hyped knives, I bailed out. I sold off all I could and went back to carrying a SAK as my edc pocket knife.

That has pretty much been my experience as well. I have one custom kitchen knife that I adore and still like to bring my Bark River Aurora on winter camping trips but other than that a 91mm SAK just cuts the best for me and if I need a little more strength in a blade, a Farmer or Vic OHT is my choice, and if those two aren't up to the task than a fixed blade Mora is my next step up.

[AimlessWanderer]

I used to have a nice Queen Cutlery muskrat in D2 ... but I traded it away. I was never going to use it, and it was just drawer fodder so it had to go. I do have a buffalo handled Sheffield made slippie in carbon steel which was very nice, then I started using it and building up a patina. It's no longer shiny, but I like it even more 

As for fixed blades I have a Raker custom skinner which is wonderful, plus a Chris Caine Survival Tool, and an Anton Du Plessis Warthog (both hand made by Scorpion Knives in Sheffield), and think they are excellent. I also have a couple of 4" sheath knives I made on a knifemaking course, which are far less sexy than the ones I bought - but nice for me personally.

That has all pretty much satisfied my cravings for expensive knives. What do I use most? SAK's, cheap Chinese made folders (Byrd Slipits), cheaper traditional knives, cheap(er) puukos and cheap Cold Steel fixed blades (Finn Bear, Roach Belly etc). This cheap stuff does the job adequately, which means I don't need to use the expensive stuff 

I don't really regret buying the more expensive items, but I have no yearnings to buy more either. They do get used occasionally, but not enough to say they've paid for themselves. I was right to get what I did ... and right to stop getting any more. If a couple of expensive knives don't satisfy the hunger - nothing will in my opinion

[cbl51]

[/quote]

That has pretty much been my experience as well. I have one custom kitchen knife that I adore and still like to bring my Bark River Aurora on winter camping trips but other than that a 91mm SAK just cuts the best for me and if I need a little more strength in a blade, a Farmer or Vic OHT is my choice, and if those two aren't up to the task than a fixed blade Mora is my next step up.
[/quote]

You just named the knife that changed my whole outlook; Mora.

I used to collect Randall knives way back in the 1970's. I was a gear snob, and an insufferable one at that. I was convinced that the high dollar stuff was it. I was also a hunter, so I used my knives in the field. Well one early morning deer hunting, I got my opening day buck. It had rained and the ground was muddy, and the deer hair and mud dulled my whiz bang custom Randall right up. My buddy, Danny, handed me his knife, a wood handle old mora bladed Frosts. That cheap 10 dollar Mora field dressed that deer better than a couple hundred dollar Randall. That incident made me start to look very close at cost effectiveness. LIke my high dollar Colt Python wasn't as good a gun in the end as my old Smith and Wesson Highway Patrolman. Yet gun nuts go gaa-gaa over the Colt Python because of the highly hyped mystique of the thing.  Knives, guns, motorcycles, it's been my experince in life that the more something with a higher price tag is hyped, the worse the let down when you put it to the acid test of use.

Now many years later, the only good thing I have to say about the high dollar custom stuff is, at least I could sell it off and get half my money back out of it. And that's about all you'll get, if your lucky. You have to find some other stary eyed nitwit to buy it. If there's a recession on, that can be hard. Put your money in a good IRA retirement fund. Expensive knives don't work.

 My buddy Danny has been my best friend for our whole life. We're just old enough now to collect back what we put into social security. I've never seen Danny with anything other than his old Vic pioneer with most of the red anodizing worn off the handle, and his old Frosts mora. He's never failed to get the job done. On the other hand, he's had a lot of amusement over the years watching me try high dollar stuff and being disappointed. BMW motorcycles that weren't as reliable as a Honda, Fancy high end rifles that didn't kill a deer any better than a beat up old 30-30 Marlin, and high end folders that didn't do any better if as good as a beat up old SAK.

In the end, I've found what has worked for the working masses all over the world, is very hard to beat. Mora's, Opinel's, SAK's. Anything more is just wasting money.

[82brutus]

I've held the view that the more expensive knives might be nicer in some respects but the real question to me is if I want to cut something and it might get a little messy and/or cause some potential scratching or damage, am I going to want to use my expensive knife that I paid a lot for or something that is cheap and easy to replace?

Also, if I pay a whole lot for something and there is a tiny flaw will that ultimately piss me off? Given that when I handle a SAK or mora that is super affordable with excellent quality control, durability, etc. and it works great, if it breaks the SAK has a lifetime warranty but I can also go buy another one at the store and it performs exactly the same. 

If I was the type of person who wanted one knife that would last me a lifetime.  A knife that I would definitely use without hesitating in every situation, then I could go expensive and use that one for a very long time and be very happy.   Unfortunately, I'd hesitate to use a more expensive option because I think about the cost.  Granted many of the expensive knives also come with outstanding warranties, because the companies want you to use them with confidence.  They understand that they serve a purpose.  I just know I'm not really like that.

[AimlessWanderer]

In the end, I've found what has worked for the working masses all over the world, is very hard to beat. Mora's, Opinel's, SAK's. Anything more is just wasting money.

Those brands that have been around for ever, have been around forever for a reason - their gear works and people keep going back for it and recommending it to everyone they know. I'm relatively new to SAK's etc but my old Sheffield made lambsfoot is my own example of that. I was given it back when I was 16(ish) and it's good for another century or two I reckon  The budget versions like mine can still be bought for about £15 or less I think, and are another affordable and reliable mainstay. I do have SAKs, Opinels and Moras too, and I would put these in that category of cheap honest hardworking gear

But ... I can't agree completely about everything else being a waste of money. For general cutting chores the basics will do perfectly adequately, but I still like the few higher value items I have. The added value I have in my buffalo horn slippie and my two Scorpion Knives offerings are local pride. The fact that although some local firms are spewing out some real tripe, there are those who can still pump out excellent high quality gear to compete with the more common brands, and I'd happily pitch them against an ESSE for example.

Aside from that, and though they may not be lightsabres in comparison, the higher cost knives can have a different feel to them too. I'm not saying better - just different. With the ones I made under tuition, my local knives, and the Raker, it's nice to know it was made by a person who invested their time into making something you would be happy with. Crafted - not just spat out of an automated production line.

This is one of the reasons I don't want any more of them - to me that investment is wasted if it just sits in a drawer not doing the job it was hand crafted to do. It's like an insult to the maker. My Granny B axes fall into that category too, and are the best axes I own. The Scorpion Warthog is undoubtably my best bush knife - it's a brute, my Chris Caine blows away my cheaper machete. The Raker is a wonderful knife - it's a skinner, but I don't hunt, so I give myself reasons to use it when I don't need to, just to enjoy using it.

That said I could do all the jobs with cheaper tools, some of which may hold an edge or resist corrosion better, or outperform the expensive tools in a myriad of other ways ... but will I enjoy using it as much? My buffalo scaled Senator is easily outperformed by a SAK - but I love it! It's like having a "normal" car as a daily runaround, and then something nice for the occasional weekend drive I suppose - even if it's not as economical, responsive, easy to park, good on storage, driver visibility .....

However, too many nice things means that none of them are special, and I have few enough that they still are, if that makes sense 

[Steinar]

I'd ask myself exactly why I wanted that knife. Also, I think it's a good idea to wait pulling the trigger until you have handled one in person. Spyderco are pretty nice knives, but comparing them to a SAK is very much comparing apples and oranges.

[Mr. Whippy]

hmmm...

Ok.  Here's my take on this.

Functionally there is virtually NO REASON to pay big dollars for a custom or high end production knife.  Generally, it won't cut better, hold a better edge or feel better in your hand.

Mostly, the high end items are for artistic enjoyment.  Some use them, some don't.  Personally, I have a Victorinox Executive with mammoth tusk scales.  It is my EDC.  It isn't even as functional as the standard Executive because there aren't tweezers or toothpick BUT, I love holding the thing and derive enjoyment just looking at it.  There is something to be said for the esthetics of a tool too.

My experience with high end tools (not so much knives, but other tools) with exotic materials is similar to cbl51.  Damascus stainless is NOT as good as most of the standard stainless steels used in knives today (154CM, VG-10, S30V, etc).  Most custom folders take a lot more effort to keep them operating smoothly than commercial folding knifes.  The collector market is illogical and fickle.  Buy only what you like, because next week it might be completely out of favor.

As for motorcycles, my BMW R-bike (R1100S) was a good bike, but nothing special.  I'm really glad I bought used, because it certainly wasn't worth the NEW price in performance, reliability or comfort.  Currently I have 2 Ducatis that I bought used.  I would say they are well worth what I paid for them and have been excellent bikes, far out-performing their semi-exotic reputations.  That said, I'm not sure I'd feel the same if I had paid new bike prices for them.  My Multistrada had 800 miles on it when I bought it for 2/3 of new bike price and it has 30,000 miles on it now.  It's been great and well worth the price.  Better than a Honda? Probably not, but the esthetic of the bike, has some intrinsic value to me too and I would say the price difference was worth it.   I had a Suzuki Burgman a few years ago that was stone reliable and a very good MaxiScoot, but it was never more than a mode of transport to me.  It simply lacked that ethereal thing that makes the Ducatis "my" bike.

So I guess I would say that I largely agree with cbl51 but not entirely.

[WiSAKfan]

it's great to read through everyone's responses, a lot has been written so my post make may be inadequate or disjointed as i try to respond.

first let me say thank you for posting, this is a great forum like that.  props to you guys who make it so fun.

I'm getting a general feeling that the urge that drives my more expensive knife crush never really gets fulfilled through their purchase.

i don't see this purchase as an investment in terms of what i can sell it for but understand that is where the rabbit hole leads if i get one and then another one that "fulfills" something the first one doesn't etc etc until i'm looking to sell myself.  I do believe there are tools that are worth their pricetags and see that as an investment in itself if they are something you use.

some of you brought up the topic of use and fully agree.  i'm kinda of the do everything guy for a construction company and carry a utility knife in a belt sheath at work:



there are days I probably use it a hundred times or more and i'll do crazy stuff you'd never do with a non-replaceable blade, cutting things on concrete, digging at things etc

for the work it is doing there really isn't anything that can beat it.  i'm fond of the lenox gold blade titanium edge blades.

it's perhaps comparable to the nitch that moras, saks etc have filled.  hard to beat them.

i realized the time and got to run but i'll post more when i have some free time

[Mr. Whippy]

it's great to read through everyone's responses, a lot has been written so my post make may be inadequate or disjointed as i try to respond.

first let me say thank you for posting, this is a great forum like that.  props to you guys who make it so fun.

I'm getting a general feeling that the urge that drives my more expensive knife crush never really gets fulfilled through their purchase.

i don't see this purchase as an investment in terms of what i can sell it for but understand that is where the rabbit hole leads if i get one and then another one that "fulfills" something the first one doesn't etc etc until i'm looking to sell myself.  I do believe there are tools that are worth their pricetags and see that as an investment in itself if they are something you use.

some of you brought up the topic of use and fully agree.  i'm kinda of the do everything guy for a construction company and carry a utility knife in a belt sheath at work:

(Image removed from quote.)

there are days I probably use it a hundred times or more and i'll do crazy stuff you'd never do with a non-replaceable blade, cutting things on concrete, digging at things etc

for the work it is doing there really isn't anything that can beat it.  i'm fond of the lenox gold blade titanium edge blades.

it's perhaps comparable to the nitch that moras, saks etc have filled.  hard to beat them.

i realized the time and got to run but i'll post more when i have some free time

This is a total thread hijack but...

Any chance you'd post up a thread about the different utility knives you've used and what you liked/disliked about them?  I've had a couple and have been amazed by how something as simple as how the blade is deployed can make me love or hate the thing.

[Pacu]

I say buy what you want. I buy high end work tools because i just want to buy them once. Sure el cheapo gets the job done functional wise...but mmmmm snap on and klein. 


also the most expensive knife i own is a blue vic farmer. I'm more of a budget knife guy. 

[Syph007]

I only own one expensive knife.  Fallkniven A1, and I think that ran me $220 Canadian when I got it.  I dont have any urge to collect high end stuff, but I love this one big boy knife.

[Mr. Whippy]

I say buy what you want. I buy high end work tools because i just want to buy them once. Sure el cheapo gets the job done functional wise...but mmmmm snap on and klein. 


also the most expensive knife i own is a blue vic farmer. I'm more of a budget knife guy. 

I only have a few SnapOn tools, but damn!

One of them is a SnapOn torque wrench.  I had a Sears Craftsman torque wrench which was stolen by some douchebag who came to look at my R1100S when I was selling it.  I know it was one of the guys who came to look at the bike because the torque wrench AND case went missing.  When I use my torque wrenches, the case stays in the climate controlled office.

ANYWAY...
Because of the sheer joy of using that SnapOn torque wrench, every bolt with a listed torque specification gets tightened to its exact specification. 

[Pacu]

i have a 1/4 , 3/8 and 1/2 snap on ratchets. Makes you glad to go work on something. 
When done with they go back into their individual cases into the house.

[jzmtl]

Good tools do feel good in hand. My no name drill just died and I ponied up and bought a dewalt, man it feels good in hand, even the motor sounds better, of course I can't say how much of it is psychological. (actually it's the batteries that died, drill works perfectly fine, reminds me of something I heard before, you aren't buying a drill, you are buying batteries with a free drill).

I've down to the rabbit hole and pretty much out. At one point I had two large boxes of various knives, mainly spyderco, but now I've realized there isn't much point, they all cut the same and the only thing expensive knife does to me is I'm afraid to use it. I'm in the process of getting rid of majority of them, I can only use one at a time and every one of them will last me lifetime.

[Ashley]

Go for it then at least you'll know.

I always wanted a sebenza but kept buying cheap(er) knives and never was satisfied. I then balled up and bought the sebenza. I don't plan to ever get rid of it but its not my god favorite knife ever. I have found I tend to like framelock folders a lot. Ash



The Ash Mobile Voom Voom

[WiSAKfan]

it's great to read through everyone's responses, a lot has been written so my post make may be inadequate or disjointed as i try to respond.

first let me say thank you for posting, this is a great forum like that.  props to you guys who make it so fun.

I'm getting a general feeling that the urge that drives my more expensive knife crush never really gets fulfilled through their purchase.

i don't see this purchase as an investment in terms of what i can sell it for but understand that is where the rabbit hole leads if i get one and then another one that "fulfills" something the first one doesn't etc etc until i'm looking to sell myself.  I do believe there are tools that are worth their pricetags and see that as an investment in itself if they are something you use.

some of you brought up the topic of use and fully agree.  i'm kinda of the do everything guy for a construction company and carry a utility knife in a belt sheath at work:

(Image removed from quote.)

there are days I probably use it a hundred times or more and i'll do crazy stuff you'd never do with a non-replaceable blade, cutting things on concrete, digging at things etc

for the work it is doing there really isn't anything that can beat it.  i'm fond of the lenox gold blade titanium edge blades.

it's perhaps comparable to the nitch that moras, saks etc have filled.  hard to beat them.

i realized the time and got to run but i'll post more when i have some free time

This is a total thread hijack but...

Any chance you'd post up a thread about the different utility knives you've used and what you liked/disliked about them?  I've had a couple and have been amazed by how something as simple as how the blade is deployed can make me love or hate the thing.

I certainly can do that.

yes i agree some of them can feel awkward and throw it all off.

[WiSAKfan]

Just avoid buying lots of cheap knives you do not like and convincing yourself you are saving money. Instead of 10 cheap ones you do not like buy one expensive one you like.
-----

Have a look at BF too, though make sure you do not get carried away by fans of certain brands or expensive knives.

that's an excellent point too.  I already have too many SAKs because i got carried away and with ebay they were pretty cheap.  had i better control I could have used that money to buy a more expensive knife.

and today i was thinking why not try an opinel and a peasant knife or both cause they are cheap...which could be money saved for more expensive knife.

I've been on BF drooling at the knives for sale on there.  I'm amazed how quickly expensive knives will sell on there, and the price of some of the knives not even dipping into the custom range.

i got my OHT trekker out to play with as my most expensive one hander.  I see swissblanco makes a pocket clip for them.

[Styerman]

I have a few customs and expensive productions , I prefer the higher end pieces . That said , I'll freely concede that a Spyderco Delica/Endura and a SAK will cover 98.9% of your bases .

I very little trust in Chinese product , so I steer clear of their offerings .

I EDC an expensive production and a SAK . The SAK does all the dirty work . If I had to be honest , the high end Prodos. are man jewelery . The few custom folders I still have are safe queens , other than fulldress occaision.

If you want to see a Prodo. of near or beter than custom quality - check out Al Mar or Muscata ( both of Japanese origin ) .

Chris

[magentus]

I'm really enjoying this thread! I've left more than one forum because of the high level of 'kit queen' membership and the 'more expensive the better' point of view - Obviously there's room for all, but this forum seems to get the balance right; non-judgemental and accepting of all the different reasons and levels of involvement.

I'm glad to be a member here 

[Ashley]

I enjoy and carry both but I only have 1 high end sebenza and it cuts just like my cheaper knives but I for some reason find the steel on my crk too soft.

The Ash Mobile Voom Voom

[Pacu]

i just picked up a case sodbuster jr. Dirt cheap and sharper than Stephen Hawking. My opinel 8 is wicked sharp too. Those chinese san-something knives are surprisingly well built. My dad " acquired"  mine. 


i really need a spyderco ...no specific reason besides i always wanted one 

[jerseydevil]

i just picked up a case sodbuster jr. Dirt cheap and sharper than Stephen Hawking. My opinel 8 is wicked sharp too. Those chinese san-something knives are surprisingly well built. My dad " acquired"  mine. 


i really need a spyderco ...no specific reason besides i always wanted one 

I love the Sodbuster Jr.  I have two, one in stainless and one in CV.  For around 20 bucks it's one hell of a working knife.  Sanrenmu, Enlan, Ganzo..... I have a whole bunch of Chinese folders that are very well built, great knives.  A lot of my favorite carry blades are inexpensive, but that doesn't mean that they're flimsy or inferior in day to day use than a more expensive make or model.  I use my stuff, death to shelf queens!    I'd not want to carry a Sebenza or such into the back room of the paint store, too much money being put at risk!    Knives like Kershaws, Case slipjoints, some of the Chinese ones I mentioned above, SAKs..... Those are the knives I use with no regrets or problems every day. 

[Sparky415]

Click here for wonderland 

http://www.michaelmorrisknives.com/

[Pacu]

Click here for wonderland 

http://www.michaelmorrisknives.com/

nice friction folder!