going down the rabbit hole of "expensive" knives....

[bodie]

Well I may be a tad bit biased, but I say go for it  The CF Spyderco ParaMilitary 2 and Manix 2 are my favorites. I like the lock better on the Manix 2, but I seem to end up carrying the Para more often. I always have one of those two on me as my main blade. Both are very easy to open and close with one hand and safe (fingers don't have to cross the blade path when unlocking). The S90V puts the Vics to shame as far as edge holding goes. I also like the fact that both knives are made right here in the USA. If the price won't scare you from using it then I think it's a good investment. Just be careful not to get addicted lol. Like someone else mentioned, one will last you a lifetime so if you start going crazy buying them you'll just end up with a whole bunch of knives that you'll never really use. And once you figure out how to finger flick it like it's a switchblade you'll be addicted:

[Styerman]

The Para , and the Military are super nice pieces . In fact if anything Spyderco offerings are getting better over time . They are a good value in relation to percieved quality . Zero Tolerance , and Kershaw have some very sweet stuff .

Chris

[Grant Lamontagne]

I am not one for fancy knives.  That having been said, I do have a few nice ones and have had more over the years.  It's a matter of what you want, what you need and what you enjoy all rolled together.

Yes a SAK will do everything a high end folder will do (and more) for a fraction of the price.  However, if that was the case, we'd all be driving Kia Rios.  Sometimes it's just nice to have something a bit nicer, even if it means your BMW cost more to sit in the same traffic as the guy in the econo-box.

Life isn't a dress rehersal- go ahead and give a higher end knife a shot if you like. Worst comes to worst, you'll decide you don't like it and sell it or trade it for something you do like.  And if you do like it, well there is certainly something to be said for having a well made knife in your pocket!

Def

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

[WiSAKfan]

Well I may be a tad bit biased, but I say go for it  The CF Spyderco ParaMilitary 2 and Manix 2 are my favorites. I like the lock better on the Manix 2, but I seem to end up carrying the Para more often. I always have one of those two on me as my main blade. Both are very easy to open and close with one hand and safe (fingers don't have to cross the blade path when unlocking). The S90V puts the Vics to shame as far as edge holding goes. I also like the fact that both knives are made right here in the USA. If the price won't scare you from using it then I think it's a good investment. Just be careful not to get addicted lol. Like someone else mentioned, one will last you a lifetime so if you start going crazy buying them you'll just end up with a whole bunch of knives that you'll never really use. And once you figure out how to finger flick it like it's a switchblade you'll be addicted: [/url]

hi bodie, thanks for posting, considering it was your spidie as a backdrop to one of your SAK mod photos that got my looking down the rabbit hole.

the addicted part and the always looking for the "something better" part if def one of my main concerns.

i do like the fact that they are made in the USA and would try to go that route even if i end up picking a less expensive knife.  I don't want to start a huge argument about it, but it's just a personal thing with these higher priced knives.

i own a bunch of SAKs and even have an opinel on the way to try, so i'm not opposed to quality products made off shore.  I do have reservations about carrying pocket knives made in china, although i imagine there are some quality ones being made.

i'm still weighing my opinions.  the para2 seems hard to find in stock right now, but they pop up fairly regularly on BF

i'll have plenty of cutters until i make the choice.

I appreciate everyone's thoughts on this topic

 

[WiSAKfan]

I am not one for fancy knives.  That having been said, I do have a few nice ones and have had more over the years.  It's a matter of what you want, what you need and what you enjoy all rolled together.

Yes a SAK will do everything a high end folder will do (and more) for a fraction of the price.  However, if that was the case, we'd all be driving Kia Rios.  Sometimes it's just nice to have something a bit nicer, even if it means your BMW cost more to sit in the same traffic as the guy in the econo-box.

Life isn't a dress rehersal- go ahead and give a higher end knife a shot if you like. Worst comes to worst, you'll decide you don't like it and sell it or trade it for something you do like.  And if you do like it, well there is certainly something to be said for having a well made knife in your pocket!

Def

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

thanks for the comments and thanks for your work making this forum what it is 

so very true that life isn't a dress rehearsal. 

i appreciate your comments

[jekostas]

This is going to be a bit of a rant, so please bear with me:

I am an unabashed buyer of "value" knives, and the vast majority of my collection, with a few exceptions, cost me $20 or less.  It's not that I dislike expensive knives, I've owned some rather nice pieces from just about all of the major North American knife companies with the exception of Gerber (I just don't trust a company that won't name the steel they use).

What it comes down to for me is two things:
1.  Expensive knives don't cut any better.
2.  There's a serious lack of creativity that exists with a lot of knife companies.

With so many companies, it's just a sea of grey blades, black handles and "tactical" design elements *cough* Kershaw *cough*.  It's boring.  It's pointless.  I'm not a high speed operator.  I don't need hyper-jimped, mega-finger molded knives with a 10cm high thumb ramp, handle scales highly enough textured you could use them as sandpaper and super-powdered incredulo-steel made by the Dwarves of Nidavellir designed by so-and-so super knife fighter special forces black ops agent who can't even reveal his name for far of reprisal.  Plus there's this really weird move to smaller knives that weight as much as a boat anchor (Boker Pipsqueak, Benchmade Siebert 755) that for the life of me, I just don't understand.  More expensive knives rarely change this formula either - they just do it with more expensive materials and better quality control.  A Sebenza looks good, feels good and is incredibly well made but it isn't cutting any better than a SanRenMu 710 that's one fiftieth the price.

And there in lies the point - if I need a knife for utility, it doesn't need to cost much to get the job done safely and done well.  If you don't want to buy Chinese you can spend $15-20 and get an American made Buck Bantam or Leatherman C33 that will last damn near close to forever and if it doesn't they have great warranties anyways.  Or a SAK.

All that said, there are some things I'll pay for.  Unique designs for one.  CRKT likes to endlessly recycle the M16 series, but the Ripple was and is quite a unique looking knife.  The Spyderco Ladybug Hawkbill is another great example.  Mechanical innovations like ball bearing pivot systems or steels like H1 that won't rust but have edge retention good enough for everyday use.

[Mr. Whippy]

*just a point of contention:

IF you're left handed, the Crater C33 is nearly worthless because it can't be swapped from RH operation.

[WiSAKfan]

i ended up winning an auction for a SAK first mate, and that pretty much puts other knife purchases on hold.

jekosta i liked the rant 

I've been looking at the best value edc category too.

the kershaw skyline seems to get good reviews.

The buck vantage pro seems like a pretty good deal too.

both are made in the usa.

[zatoichi]

I can only speak for myself.

But after I got my ESEE-5, I lost interest in getting another expensive fixed blade knives.

I got a Mora or two since then but no more expensive stuff truly interests me.

At one point I thought I might get an ESEE-3. But I got a BHK Maverick Scout. I loved the leather sheath that came with the knife.

Maybe an ESEE-6 later, but what I have is plenty good enough.

[kitbeard]

This is a thought provoking thread.  It strikes me that what constitutes an "expensive" knife differs from country to country.  Sanrenmu knives have been mentioned and, yes, they are very cheap to buy in the UK or US but are regarded as a 'high end' knives in China - so I'd suspect they'd be treated as expensive, premium items over there.  Pacu has mentioned the Case Sodbuster Jnr as a quality inexpensive knife and the Case Sodbuster is a good quality knife, comparing well with the German Eye small soddie.  But the Sodbuster Jnr isn't a cheap knife if you buy it from a UK store, with one reputable site wanting just short of £30 ($48) for both the CV and Tru-Sharp versions.

This isn't a rip off either, the store will have paid for the knives wholesale, paid import duties and has to make a profit but it does mean that the Sodbuster Jnr isn't something you'd treat as cheap and cheerful.  As a result, the Sodbuster isn't sold by UK stores that carry it as a good, cheap working knife but is sold more as a Case collectible.  The same applies across the limited number of Case patterns available in UK stores and to the likes of Queen, Utica, Bear and Sons and Buck, with entry and mid range models starting to become 'expensive' knives.

I've also seen the reverse of this on US sites, with some Sheffield models that mid-range users being marketed as premium collectibles/users as a result of import costs and exchange rates.  I know this situation isn't absolute and you can buy a cheap, well, cheap-ish Sodbuster or other Case models from a US store that offers international shipping - but not everyone will want to do this for whatever reason, so I do think what constitutes an expensive knife has to be highly influenced by where you live and what it costs to buy knives that elsewhere are much cheaper and are regarded differently as a result.

[AimlessWanderer]

I used to have a nice Queen Cutlery muskrat in D2 ... but I traded it away. I was never going to use it, and it was just drawer fodder so it had to go. I do have a buffalo handled Sheffield made slippie in carbon steel which was very nice, then I started using it and building up a patina. It's no longer shiny, but I like it even more 

As for fixed blades I have a Raker custom skinner which is wonderful, plus a Chris Caine Survival Tool, and an Anton Du Plessis Warthog (both hand made by Scorpion Knives in Sheffield), and think they are excellent. I also have a couple of 4" sheath knives I made on a knifemaking course, which are far less sexy than the ones I bought - but nice for me personally.

That has all pretty much satisfied my cravings for expensive knives. What do I use most? SAK's, cheap Chinese made folders (Byrd Slipits), cheaper traditional knives, cheap(er) puukos and cheap Cold Steel fixed blades (Finn Bear, Roach Belly etc). This cheap stuff does the job adequately, which means I don't need to use the expensive stuff 

I don't really regret buying the more expensive items, but I have no yearnings to buy more either. They do get used occasionally, but not enough to say they've paid for themselves. I was right to get what I did ... and right to stop getting any more. If a couple of expensive knives don't satisfy the hunger - nothing will in my opinion

Despite what I wrote above, I've just bought my third knife which cost over £100, this time a folder. I also omitted to mention before I have a beautiful skinning knife by Ray Raker which I won here at MTO in a competition.

This puts my collection of expensive knives at one parang, one warthog knife, one skinner, and one slipjoint folder .... I can live with that 

... and I use them all too 

[jzmtl]

I'm pretty sure SRM aren't anywhere near high end knives in China. I've seen a China based knife forum and the photos are showing pretty much the same as any other forum. Spydercos, Benchmades and a few CRK mixed in for production knives, and whole bunch of others I can't even name.

[tosh]

I'll add my own tuppence worth here..if that's okay

Personally I'd leave well alone and if you're seriously interested in buying something extra special then I'd go for the real McCoy and buy the best vintage example you can find from the days when knives really were a work of art and built to a standard of unbelievable quality and workmanship. Then not only will you have a slice of history as it was - but also a "one -off" unless someone stumbles upon a even better example.

I live in Sheffield UK - made world famous due to it's involvement with the cutlery trade  in years gone by. I don't think it could be denied that at it's peak Sheffield was untouchable - we really did rule the world. But that's gone, so lets move on.

In 1996 quite by chance I met Stan Shaw Master Cutler. I was at college at the time studying HND in Art & Design (basically advertising photography). As part of an exhibition - I decided to undertake a series of portraits depicting various trades that were dying out. Cobbler, Sawmill, Farrier, Knifemaker etc etc. TBH - I was sick of being cooped up in the college's studios and wanted to get out for a bit.

I visited lots of knifemakers trying to find exactly the image I had in my head - none of them worked. Until one day when I was chasing up yet another lead, I arrived and was greeted by the knifemakers son (forgive me I forget the name ). I quickly realised as soon as we stepped into his workshop that it wasn't going to work. As he was roughly my age at the time he sensed that it was not what I was looking for and told me to go find Stan Shaw - that's the first time I'd ever heard his name.

Stan Shaw - what a remarkable man. Now well into his eighties, Stan still works even today. His knives have brought him worldwide recognition. In his very long career he has given away many of his pieces to various Presidents and Royal families around the world. Even japanese knife makers who can trace their own ancestral history way back even before Sheffield began to build knives are left in awe at the workmanship offered in his pieces. His knives are totally hand built, cut, forged, tempered. Every process along the way is done by hand. I was so taken by his knives that my partner agreed I could place an order (1997). I now have 4. Each has been ordered upon picking up the previous one, so it's taken a good number of years for me to get 4!!

Barlow lock knife with workback
Folding bowie knife with workback
Plain pruner - no workback
Fishermans knife with workback (??)

The Fisherman was collected 2 years ago - I took my young son along and came away with pictures of my son and stan holding the knife - incidently each knife comes with a receipt and to that I always added one of his books that he signed there and then. As you may gather these will NEVER be used and hopefully my son will keep them and pass them on.

Right  - disappointment

The day I picked up that fisherman we were actually going on holiday. However, having waited 4yrs would you really leave it to chance and agree to collect upon your return home given the fact that Stan was then in his eighties??

So, I didn't get chance to inspect it. Yes I admired it - but didn't check (scrutinize) the workmanship.
When we returned home from holiday and things had settled down into normality - I retrieved the fisherman from the safe and to my horror noticed lateral movement in the main blade.....  " NO!! it cannot be ".

Here I was holding a Stan Shaw knife that I had waited 4 years to get and paid a bloody fortune for (£450.00) as Stan had remarked, "if it's too much - it's okay, someone else would take it".

Well, what do you do?? The whole purpose of the knife was to demonstrate the Master Cutlers art....erm!!
I couldn't let it rest and after a few sleepless nights I went back to see Stan. Remember the guy is in his 80's. I casually remarked how impressed I was and could I place an order for a sowbelly in pearl. As I had the fisherman knife with me, I made out that I'd only just noticed the lateral play.......stan had a look and said there was nothing that could be done - he wouldn't be able to fix it it without taking the whole knife apart and that was out of the question - I can't remember if he offered me a refund - it's all a bit hazy!!!
So what do you do?? The guy is a living legend, is it a case of any knife is better than no knife???
I'm still unsure even now as to what I should've done  - yeah granted £450 is a ridiculous amount of money - but no one out there in their right mind would sell you their's for £450!!

It's a pretty awful dilemma to live with - to own a peice of history by legendary Master Cutler Stan Shaw - but the example is flawed in what I suspect to be the very worst flaw any knife maker can commit.


Since then, I've got into MT's and no thanks to MT'o I'm now on SAK's too. The blatant truth, like it or not is that Victorinox's level of QC really does knock it home, Why do you need to pay ridiculous sums of money out for other knives, we're talking 10/20x the price here - when in most cases they are actually no better - yeah, they may use exotic metals and luxurious materials for the scales/handles - but the fit and finish ....is it really better!!   Really.


But each to his own as they say.

As to the sowbelly...not heard anything yet!!


Stans work from a few years back   
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/764510-Traditional-generosity-given-in-the-spirit-of-learning!-Stan-Shaw-DVD

[Landrew]

The only pricey purchase I might contemplate is something made of Damascus steel, the real kind, not a vaguely similar facsimile.  Theories vary, but I believe it was forged very painstakingly in a high-heat, oxygen-deprived environment in thin layers to incorporate the carbon, and then hammer-welded together. I don't know the exact method, but something like this sounds plausible.

[AimlessWanderer]

tosh ..... Ouch, that smarts!

Though it's painful to say, I think Stan is now selling purely on his name and the novelty that everything is cut out by hacksaw and fashioned without patterns into the knives he makes. Hand crinked scissors that only have a single point of contact throughout the cut, additional blades and tools made on a whim without any drawings or templates - a real genius in his day. He could still make something in a week that is better than anything I could make in a year, but I'd love to have one of his pieces from when he was in his prime. I have seen pictures of some of his examples of gentleman's utility knives and they are beyond belief. I bet there was never any play of any kind when he was in his 50s. I handled a couple of knives belonging to the owner of The Famous Sheffield Shop a couple of years back. One was impeccable, and the other .... well the other was made a good few years later, and the difference was noticeable.

I still think Stan is a remarkable man, and he's known amongst knifemakers globally, and some have flown over to sit alongside him and watch one of the old masters at work. Nowadays though, I think you're more buying something that's got his name on it, rather than something that has the trademark quality he used to ensure on every piece. That may be doing the guy a disservice, but it's my thoughts on the matter all the same.

The most I've ever paid for a folder (or any knife for that matter) if the Michael Vagnino knife I got recently. I think thats the last "premium forder" I'll be getting for a good long while, and before that was my two fixed blades from Scorpion/Staniforths. Difference with me is they're all users. I personally couldn't fork out money like that on something to put it in a safe - it'd be like buying an Aston Martin and not letting myself take it for a run up the M1 

[tosh]

tosh ..... Ouch, that smarts!

I personally couldn't fork out money like that on something to put it in a safe - it'd be like buying an Aston Martin and not letting myself take it for a run up the M1 

Thanks for the sympathy AL

TBH the fisherman was ordered 6 years ago - that's a lifetime.
Back then no kids
House just totally - fully remodelled (7yrs in the process).
Loads of work available (spent most of my time working away back then)
As I say, looking back it really does seem like a lifetime ago.

To be fair to Stan - the other 3 items I own are simply impeccable - but none cost even close to what that fisherman cost me.

It's not really the money that sickens me       - it's the fact that it's not right. I can't seem to accept that bit.

[AimlessWanderer]

Have you tried giving it a few taps with a hammer? 

He's probably got the thickness of the spring a little oversize, or dare I say it - a little uneven. Glad to hear you've got three "proper" Stan Shaw pieces by the sound of it though

[tosh]

He's probably got the thickness of the spring a little oversize, or dare I say it - a little uneven.

Actually, he did say something along those lines - but I wasn't paying too much attention after he'd just refused flat-out to sort it.

The hammer idea sounds interestin' 

[AimlessWanderer]

If the backspring isn't right, there's no way of fixing it I'm afraid Nick

[tosh]

If the backspring isn't right, there's no way of fixing it I'm afraid Nick

yay - I realised that.

I do have an idea tho'...............

I may get the knife, receipt and signed book hermetically sealed in a posh glass display case one day. 

[Wootz]

If the backspring isn't right, there's no way of fixing it I'm afraid Nick

yay - I realised that.

I do have an idea tho'...............

I may get the knife, receipt and signed book hermetically sealed in a posh glass display case one day. 

I'll trade you a Swiss Army Knife for it, new in box! 

[tosh]

If the backspring isn't right, there's no way of fixing it I'm afraid Nick

yay - I realised that.

I do have an idea tho'...............

I may get the knife, receipt and signed book hermetically sealed in a posh glass display case one day. 

I'll trade you a Swiss Army Knife for it, new in box! 

ha ha   

Took your advice and contacted Vic with regards to the Soldier  .
Not yet heard back - but I'll give them a week or so then follow up.

In light of my recent comments here - I think the soldier would be better in victorinox's hands dont you agree??

[Wootz]

Took your advice and contacted Vic with regards to the Soldier  .
Not yet heard back - but I'll give them a week or so then follow up.

In light of my recent comments here - I think the soldier would be better in victorinox's hands dont you agree??

It depends.. Are you planning to use it? Will it be a shelf queen? Collection purpose?

I would use it, on special occasions. I'm sure one of the Mod Squad can make you a pocket jewel, horn scales perhaps? You don't have to be Stan the Man for making new scales, polish the tools, and put it back together..   

[tosh]

Took your advice and contacted Vic with regards to the Soldier  .
Not yet heard back - but I'll give them a week or so then follow up.

In light of my recent comments here - I think the soldier would be better in victorinox's hands dont you agree??

It depends.. Are you planning to use it? Will it be a shelf queen? Collection purpose?

I would use it, on special occasions. I'm sure one of the Mod Squad can make you a pocket jewel, horn scales perhaps?   

It really depends on how it all turns out.
If Vic' takes it on it will probably (read hopefully) come back MINT. In which case it would be plain stupid to use. As you know I already have the same version from Marios - albeit, fairly well used. I think in all probability I will carry one and hopefully I will be satisfied  .

[Wootz]

Good call to ask Vic first. I'm sure it will work out whatever you choose to do. 

My personal view on the rabbit hole:
"Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without." 

[tosh]

"Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without." 

I like the catchy phrase - nice

[WiSAKfan]

i ended up never buying an "expensive" knife and going down that rabbit hole.

i could in the future, but for now I've been awe struck by the opinels, and i've spent my free time practicing sharpening and getting back into SAK mods.

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" by wootz

wise words my friend.