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the tool with no name ! (yet) 17498

No Life Club Posts: 2,664
the tool with no name ! (yet)
« on: September 09, 2013, 10:51:34 AM »
hi hope nobody minds this but i'd like to start a thread in this section If I've over 'bent' the rules please modds remove the whole thing.

as many of you may have spotted i'm a thinker (well most might say dreamer or fantasist  :whistle:)
I had a want for a Saw blade holder (originally for a gerber mod I've spoken to a few people about) one that was similar to the 'surge' jigsaw blade exchanger, yes I know Gerber do one on the Mp600 but nobody wanted to part with one for some reason  :think: :rofl:
so I went down the road of chatting through some ideas with the very gifted member 'Tofty'. he took the idea and ran with it....leaving me way behind, to be honest, and has come up with, what I think could be a winner ?!?!
I'll let him explain and add his awesome pics but he didn't want to start the thread because of my (small) input, and his low post count. I pretty sure we all know Tofty and have seen his work. lots have even tried and tested his 'pry tool' in a pass round so i'm sure you'll agree he's NOT just one of those chaps who is here to 'sell' his stuff and move on ?
anyhooo I'm waffling (again) so i'll hand over to the man himself !


Hero Member Posts: 531
Re: the tool with no name ! (yet)
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2013, 11:30:18 AM »
Thanks Taxi Dad, Hi all,

As Taxi Dad has said he approached me about the possibility of some kind of jigsaw blade holder or handle, so i set about coming up with a design for it.
I've initially gone down the 3D printing route although it is still far from certain whether it will be printable or not.

I personally prefer the idea of an adapter that would connect to a multitool rather than a fully handled piece, although that is still a possibility, so i looked at possible interfaces and decided on the Leatherman Lanyard attachment slot as there is a history of successful saw blade mods using it.

I can't personally think of any simple way of attaching an adapter to a multitool that can secure against both a push and pull sawing motion except for the Leatherman's lanyard point.
If you can think of one i'd like to hear about it.

I then thought about other sigsaw blade holders and their good and bad points:
The Leatherman jigsaw blade works well but it turns out that the blades supplied are non-standard in their thickness (2mm) compared to the standard (1.4mm). This means that without a spacer it can't hold anything but the supplied Leatherman blades.
The Gerber sigsaw blade holder is also non standard as many of that type of blade don't have the required hole in the middle essential for retention.

There are two different types of jigsaw blade interface, Leatherman use the larger type which can be easily retained with the right shaped slot. Gerber use the smaller type which has no proper retention features at all. I had a look at my powered sigsaw and found that it retains the blades through a clever friction method which is too complicated to add to my holder design.

The holder i've designed is simple if not exactly easy to use and will probably work with the smaller blade type but is primarily designed for the larger Leatherman type blades and will take both possible thicknesses.









Although the holder has been designed to be 3D printed the M3 threads for the grub screws will still need to be tapped as printing can't produce such fine threads. I wouldn't exactly call it a quick blade exchange system but it should hold the blade firmly and securely.

This is not a commercial venture as such, if the model prints and works successfully then it will be made available to print but as it requires post-print finishing i may offer some completed unit for sale at as low a price as is possible.
Any suggestions or observation as more than welcome and i'd like to know if there are any other possible applications for this.

Pictures of most of my work can be found on my Facebook Page.
Also have a look at my Shapeways Shop and SW Torch Shop for 3D printed items.
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 13,375 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: the tool with no name ! (yet)
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2013, 12:48:06 PM »
Nice job Peter  :tu:

A couple of thoughts ... as the blade doesn't have to fold, would it be worth looking at larger blades such as reciprocating saw blades or is the tang of the holder going to be too weak.

Another thought is that if you get the tang of the saw to sit deeper, you can get the grub screws to sit in front of the T in an internal dimple and not rely on friction. Less chance of a user feeling they have to bear down when tightening and strip the (delicate) threads ... although there is the possibility of the threads on the screw being damaged by the blade I suppose, which would make releasing the blade tricky  :think: Maybe the thread on the screw would be more durable to damage from the saw, than the holder threads would be to over tightening  :think:

Most Used Victorinox: - Climber Small, Alox Rambler, 70s Outdoorsman, CT41, Spirit X, + mods
Most Used Wenger: - Various Travellers, Pocket Tool Chest, + mods
Most Used Gerber: - Balance, Dime, + mods
Most Used Leatherman: Sideclip, Anniversary Wave, + mods
Current Mods (in use): MP426, Fuse-ilier, DEsTroyer, The PUG, Mega84, The Sheepsfoot Duke, TurboDiesel, Neutered Octane, Brian

***NEW "FOR SALE" THREAD COMING SOON***
Global Moderator Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 19,999 I may get older but I refuse to grow up.
Re: the tool with no name ! (yet)
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2013, 01:14:08 PM »
I think you might be excused for bending the rules a bit here Tofty, but only cause it's you. :P Grant might :twak: me for saying it though. ;)

Now that's cool. :dd:

The amount of screws worries me though. Here's what I thought wen I saw it. A slide on lock with a compression tab to keep the saw in place. No screws. Maybe some jimping on the sliding part to make it easier to take off. Sorry for te quice MS Paint drawing. :D




Global Moderator Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 19,999 I may get older but I refuse to grow up.
Re: the tool with no name ! (yet)
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2013, 01:16:35 PM »
Nice job Peter  :tu:

A couple of thoughts ... as the blade doesn't have to fold, would it be worth looking at larger blades such as reciprocating saw blades or is the tang of the holder going to be too weak.
...

J-Sews already did that. They were being sold through EDCS some time ago.
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 13,375 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: the tool with no name ! (yet)
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2013, 01:17:43 PM »
Nice job Peter  :tu:

A couple of thoughts ... as the blade doesn't have to fold, would it be worth looking at larger blades such as reciprocating saw blades or is the tang of the holder going to be too weak.
...

J-Sews already did that. They were being sold through EDCS some time ago.

Absolutely, but he did modified blades rather than a holder that could accommodate standard ones  :)

Most Used Victorinox: - Climber Small, Alox Rambler, 70s Outdoorsman, CT41, Spirit X, + mods
Most Used Wenger: - Various Travellers, Pocket Tool Chest, + mods
Most Used Gerber: - Balance, Dime, + mods
Most Used Leatherman: Sideclip, Anniversary Wave, + mods
Current Mods (in use): MP426, Fuse-ilier, DEsTroyer, The PUG, Mega84, The Sheepsfoot Duke, TurboDiesel, Neutered Octane, Brian

***NEW "FOR SALE" THREAD COMING SOON***
Head Turd Polisher Administrator He who has the most nuts, wins! Posts: 55,891 Optimum instrumentum est inter aures
Re: the tool with no name ! (yet)
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2013, 01:18:35 PM »
Both of these guys are loyal plier people, so I think we are good with them posting here.   :D

It looks like a great design so far, but I'm looking at it on my phone so I don't have anything constructive to add at the moment.

Def

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk 2






No Life Club Posts: 4,525 Don't judge a tool by it's brand
Re: the tool with no name ! (yet)
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2013, 12:23:53 PM »
Nice job Peter  :tu:

A couple of thoughts ... as the blade doesn't have to fold, would it be worth looking at larger blades such as reciprocating saw blades or is the tang of the holder going to be too weak.

Another thought is that if you get the tang of the saw to sit deeper, you can get the grub screws to sit in front of the T in an internal dimple and not rely on friction. Less chance of a user feeling they have to bear down when tightening and strip the (delicate) threads ... although there is the possibility of the threads on the screw being damaged by the blade I suppose, which would make releasing the blade tricky  :think: Maybe the thread on the screw would be more durable to damage from the saw, than the holder threads would be to over tightening  :think:


If I look closely at the pics, it seems it's not friction holding it in, but a 'bump'. The screws only hold the sawblade 'down' behind the bump... (I can't really explain it any better, I think... damn you words :rant: )


Edit: This shows best in the second and third pic.

A knife-carrying guide for the international traveller. : http://forum.multitool.or...ex.php/topic,47532.0.html

I feel more awesome than an awesome possum 8)
No Life Club Posts: 2,771
Re: the tool with no name ! (yet)
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2013, 12:47:47 PM »
It has no name but I can think of plenty of adjectives to compliment it!
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 13,375 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: the tool with no name ! (yet)
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2013, 12:52:04 PM »
Nice job Peter  :tu:

A couple of thoughts ... as the blade doesn't have to fold, would it be worth looking at larger blades such as reciprocating saw blades or is the tang of the holder going to be too weak.

Another thought is that if you get the tang of the saw to sit deeper, you can get the grub screws to sit in front of the T in an internal dimple and not rely on friction. Less chance of a user feeling they have to bear down when tightening and strip the (delicate) threads ... although there is the possibility of the threads on the screw being damaged by the blade I suppose, which would make releasing the blade tricky  :think: Maybe the thread on the screw would be more durable to damage from the saw, than the holder threads would be to over tightening  :think:


If I look closely at the pics, it seems it's not friction holding it in, but a 'bump'. The screws only hold the sawblade 'down' behind the bump... (I can't really explain it any better, I think... damn you words :rant: )


Edit: This shows best in the second and third pic.

Ahhhh - I see what you mean now Tom  :tu:
Ignore my previous stupidity please Peter  :D :D

Most Used Victorinox: - Climber Small, Alox Rambler, 70s Outdoorsman, CT41, Spirit X, + mods
Most Used Wenger: - Various Travellers, Pocket Tool Chest, + mods
Most Used Gerber: - Balance, Dime, + mods
Most Used Leatherman: Sideclip, Anniversary Wave, + mods
Current Mods (in use): MP426, Fuse-ilier, DEsTroyer, The PUG, Mega84, The Sheepsfoot Duke, TurboDiesel, Neutered Octane, Brian

***NEW "FOR SALE" THREAD COMING SOON***
Hero Member Posts: 531
Re: the tool with no name ! (yet)
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2013, 07:41:52 PM »
Nice job Peter  :tu:

A couple of thoughts ... as the blade doesn't have to fold, would it be worth looking at larger blades such as reciprocating saw blades or is the tang of the holder going to be too weak.

Another thought is that if you get the tang of the saw to sit deeper, you can get the grub screws to sit in front of the T in an internal dimple and not rely on friction. Less chance of a user feeling they have to bear down when tightening and strip the (delicate) threads ... although there is the possibility of the threads on the screw being damaged by the blade I suppose, which would make releasing the blade tricky  :think: Maybe the thread on the screw would be more durable to damage from the saw, than the holder threads would be to over tightening  :think:


If I look closely at the pics, it seems it's not friction holding it in, but a 'bump'. The screws only hold the sawblade 'down' behind the bump... (I can't really explain it any better, I think... damn you words :rant: )


Edit: This shows best in the second and third pic.

Ahhhh - I see what you mean now Tom  :tu:
Ignore my previous stupidity please Peter  :D :D

Tom is indeed correct, the blade drops in behind two posts that retain the 'wings' of the blade's interface and the grub screws just keep the blade from moving out of this position. There are four grub screws because i wanted to reduce twisting and keep the blade as secure as possible, all blades are subtly different so friction retention is still an important part of the design to avoid unwanted movement.

The design also allows the smaller blade type to fit inside the holder but they would only be retained by the friction of the grub screws so probably not a great idea as jigsaw blade's teeth are arranged for cutting on the pull stroke rather than the push stroke like hacksaw blades.


I think you might be excused for bending the rules a bit here Tofty, but only cause it's you. :P Grant might :twak: me for saying it though. ;)
Now that's cool. :dd:
The amount of screws worries me though. Here's what I thought wen I saw it. A slide on lock with a compression tab to keep the saw in place. No screws. Maybe some jimping on the sliding part to make it easier to take off. Sorry for te quice MS Paint drawing. :D

(Image removed from quote.)

Thanks enki_ck it's a good idea for a quick blade exchanger, the only problem is the poor surface finish and low detail resolution of current 3D printing which limit the complexity of the design,
I'll keep it in mind though for future revisions.


Nice job Peter  :tu:

A couple of thoughts ... as the blade doesn't have to fold, would it be worth looking at larger blades such as reciprocating saw blades or is the tang of the holder going to be too weak.
...

J-Sews already did that. They were being sold through EDCS some time ago.

Absolutely, but he did modified blades rather than a holder that could accommodate standard ones  :)

So long as the Leatherman lanyard interface works as a printed object then any other type of tool adapter can be substituted for the jigsaw holder including a reciprocating blade holder, proper 1/4" hex driver or even a 1/4" square driver.
J-sews' blades were a great idea but my plan is to allow non specialised tools, blades and bits to be used which could be bought from any hardware store so only a multitool and adapter need to be carried.


Both of these guys are loyal plier people, so I think we are good with them posting here.   :D
It looks like a great design so far, but I'm looking at it on my phone so I don't have anything constructive to add at the moment.
Def

Thanks Grant, i tried to make sure this thread was in the right spirit for this sub-forum.


It has no name but I can think of plenty of adjectives to compliment it!

Thanks Nhoj......i think. My idea was to call it the 'Blade SAWted' but i suspect that's rubbish.

Pictures of most of my work can be found on my Facebook Page.
Also have a look at my Shapeways Shop and SW Torch Shop for 3D printed items.
No Life Club Posts: 4,525 Don't judge a tool by it's brand
Re: the tool with no name ! (yet)
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2013, 11:56:41 PM »
Hmmm.... the "bladeyard"-attachment?  :facepalm: :facepalm:

A knife-carrying guide for the international traveller. : http://forum.multitool.or...ex.php/topic,47532.0.html

I feel more awesome than an awesome possum 8)
Newbie Posts: 48
Re: the tool with no name ! (yet)
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2013, 08:30:39 PM »
How about the blade clip?

Looks awesome anyway, I want one ;)
Full Member Posts: 206
Re: the tool with no name ! (yet)
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2013, 03:53:36 AM »
вариант
« Last Edit: September 15, 2013, 03:55:26 AM by livan »
No Life Club Posts: 3,354 All Lurkers Please Join :D
Re: the tool with no name ! (yet)
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2013, 04:04:41 PM »
 :tu:

Hi.
Hero Member Posts: 531
Re: the tool with no name ! (yet)
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2013, 01:04:45 AM »
I'll do a proper update tomorrow but thought i'd show off the pictures of the prototype.












Pictures of most of my work can be found on my Facebook Page.
Also have a look at my Shapeways Shop and SW Torch Shop for 3D printed items.
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 15,768 I love lamp.
Re: the tool with no name ! (yet)
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2013, 01:38:52 AM »
Damn tofty, that looks great!:tu:


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk

Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 9,399 You're amongst friends.
Re: the tool with no name ! (yet)
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2013, 01:48:24 AM »
I love it!  If this becomes available, I may just have to get another Wave and compliment it with one. SPLENDID work!  :D :tu:

SAW

Weilder of the MP600 and many other neat gadgets :tu:
No Life Club Posts: 3,346 Apparently it is possible to have too many tools;)
Re: the tool with no name ! (yet)
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2013, 03:05:47 AM »
I love it!  If this becomes available, I may just have to get another Wave and compliment it with one. SPLENDID work!  :D :tu:

Looks very promising  :tu:

babola: "Enjoy your tools and don't be afraid to air your opinion and feelings here, but do it in courteous and respectable way toward others, of course."
Hero Member Posts: 531
Re: the tool with no name ! (yet)
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2013, 01:21:57 PM »
Hmmm.... the "bladeyard"-attachment?  :facepalm: :facepalm:

I'd say that such a name implies the ability to store blades as well so yeah it's a Picard facepalm from me on that one as well i'm afraid.


How about the blade clip?

Looks awesome anyway, I want one ;)

Interesting, but i'd go more towards 'saw' rather than 'blade' so perhaps 'Saw Clip' or 'Jigsaw Clip'.

Thanks hopefully we can make it work.


вариант

Good idea, a clever design that doesn't require extra tools to replace the blades.
The problems as i see them though are a thread that fine will be hard to print and the lanyard ring attachment will most likely bent under sawing stresses as it's made of quite thin steel. The attachment point on the prototype is thicker than the lanyard ring as it makes use of all available space inside the multitool which the lanyard ring does not.


:tu:

Thanks, i suspect this project is right up your street.


Right onto the update....

The pictures above show what appears to be a fully working prototype and to some extent that is true, in that the concept has been proved to be sound and that 3D printing can achieve the desired detail and accuracy (caveat to follow).
However i've cheated a little bit, the jigsaw blade cavity is slightly too small so i trimmed down the blade itself to allow it to fit. I suspected this would be the case as working out the material shrinkage factors of internal cavities is always very difficult with 3D printed object, but after a bit of measuring i can just correct the model slightly and it should be fine there after.

The threads were  quite easy to tap and feel strong enough to do the job. The grub screws i had to hand were only 4mm long when i had designed for 6mm so that's why they are so deep into the holder.



As you can see from the picture i had to cut away some material from around the base and i also had to extent the locking slot out a bit, but again with these things taken account of on the model there is no reason why a run of jigsaw holders couldn't happen.

Price will be the issue though as the model printed in stainless steel costs 23 euros + postage and that's before the threads are cut, grub screws added and further postage is considered.
I can fettle the model slightly to try and bring the cost down by a euro or two but that's about it.


Damn tofty, that looks great!:tu:

I love it!  If this becomes available, I may just have to get another Wave and compliment it with one. SPLENDID work!  :D :tu:

Looks very promising  :tu:

Thanks guys, now that the Leatherman clip interface has been shown to be printable pretty much anything can be added to the other end, even the sort after plunger attachment
:sak:

Pictures of most of my work can be found on my Facebook Page.
Also have a look at my Shapeways Shop and SW Torch Shop for 3D printed items.
Newbie Posts: 48
Re: the tool with no name ! (yet)
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2013, 07:29:36 PM »
Looks awesome! Price is a little higher than I had hoped for but I think it would be worth it. I can tap my own holes and have loads of grub screws to keep cost down ;)
No Life Club Posts: 3,354 All Lurkers Please Join :D
Re: the tool with no name ! (yet)
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2013, 02:03:45 PM »
 :drool:

Hi.
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 14,932 words and stuff...
Re: the tool with no name ! (yet)
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2013, 02:26:42 PM »
Nice work! Damn fine engineering.

sent from my mobile


Nate
No Life Club Posts: 1,806 Gulo gulo
Re: the tool with no name ! (yet)
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2013, 04:55:29 PM »
Holy cow. I want one. Please tell me someone is going to make these available for purchase. I would definitely get one to keep with my Wave.

....this feeling gets old and so do your eyes. This is why, i hate you, 'cause....
Ambidangerous Mistress of Mod Admin Team Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 15,073 I'm not all bad, I'm just drawn that way.
Re: the tool with no name ! (yet)
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2013, 08:25:57 PM »
Got nothing constructive to say about the design, except what a great idea! :cheers:

A dyslexic man walks in to a bra...

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Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 10,035
Re: the tool with no name ! (yet)
« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2013, 10:34:56 PM »
Got nothing constructive to say about the design, except what a great idea! :cheers:

What she said  :salute:

Everything’s adjustable
Hero Member Posts: 531
Re: the tool with no name ! (yet)
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2013, 12:43:48 PM »
Thanks everyone, i've made the modifications needed and the model should be good to go.
The model is now up on Shapeways for purchase but still requires an M3 tap and some grub screws to finish it off (a comparable unified thread could be cut but i'm not sure which).

I'll order another one to make sure everything is correct then perhaps discuss with the powers at be whether a small run of finished versions is a good idea.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2013, 12:54:49 PM by Tofty »

Pictures of most of my work can be found on my Facebook Page.
Also have a look at my Shapeways Shop and SW Torch Shop for 3D printed items.
No Life Club Posts: 2,664
Re: the tool with no name ! (yet)
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2013, 01:18:50 PM »
 :gimme:
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 14,932 words and stuff...
Re: the tool with no name ! (yet)
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2013, 01:19:22 PM »
Sweet! Thanks Totfy

sent from my mobile

Nate
No Life Club Posts: 3,354 All Lurkers Please Join :D
Re: the tool with no name ! (yet)
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2013, 02:00:11 PM »

Hi.

 

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