Okay, educate me on Spyderco.

[cbl51]

They say an old dog can't learn new tricks, but I'm curious.

I've long been a fan of the old style traditional pocketknives, and a Case peanut, small Buck stockman, small SAK's, have been my knife of choice. I've never been a fan of the plastic handle single blade knife, but I can see an advantage. Lighter weight in the pocket, simple construction that is more rugged. Simple s good, and lighter weight is always appreciated.

Many years ago, I had an operation on my left hand, and it was nigh impossible for me to open a traditional slip joint pocket knife. A family member 'loaned' me a Gerber LST since it was easy to open, and I used the heck out of it. I hated the black plastic handle and single blade, so I abused the knife. It was a beater to me, no loss if it broke and I'd just toss the pieces in the creek and keep on going. I was wrong.

Grudgingly, I came to respect that little knife, and it never quit. It stood up to everything I used it on, and came up grinning. So my view on the 'modern' knives became a bit more open. I still carried my little Case peanut once my hand healed up, but the Gerber LST actually became a working member of my edc pocket knife rotation. Much to the amazement of family and friends.

The Gerber, like the Buck Bantam line seemed to be a good knife and priced under 20 dollars, sure didn't break the bank if it got lost or destroyed. But people kept talking about the Spyderco's, and looking at them, I couldn't see why a little black plastic handle knife the same size of a Gerber LST or Buck small Bantam, would be more than three times the price. Both Buck and Gerber are made in U.S.A. and both are made from 420HC with a very good heat treat.

So…why should I spend 3 or 4 times the price for a Spyderco man bug over the Gerber or Buck. ?

Or…if Victorinox can make a tinker, with many functions, ship it half way across the world, pay import tariffs and sell it for 20 dollars, why is a plastic handle single blade knife made in Japan with only a single function, sell for almost 3 times as much?

I am genuinely not trying to start a war, but am seriously curious as to the why of it? Why is a little Spyderco that much more? I spent the last half of my life working in production as a machinist in a production shop, so I know how this stuff is made. I know the injection molded polymer handles are made in huge gang molds for pennies a pop, and the VG-10 blade is maybe a dollar more per knife if that.

So, educate me.

[Steinar]

The costly part of "super steels" done right may not be the materials themselves (probably not even the wear and tear on the tool chain), but perhaps the heat treatment. I'm too lazy too look up the data sheet for VG-10, but I have a friend who works with rather funky tool steels, and heat treatment has tight temperature and time margins (how often have you heard the phrase "rapid cooling to 535 °C"?). I have no experience with industrial production myself, but I have been told what he has charged for properly hardening parts industrially (don't remember numbers, but it was "more than you think" ). Vic has a huge operation with a handful of steels I guess they know pretty much what is to know about. Companies like Spyderco have obviously very short production runs compared to Vic.

I like my Spyderco knives, but a Vic is what I usually EDC. So, what do I value in the Spydercos over cheaper knives? At least those I have (Japan, Taiwan and US made), have clean action, good F&F, actually comes properly sharpened from the factory, are not full of grinding gunk. Small things that cost a lot to get right, if judging from my experience with knives. Vic and Mora are the only cheap cheap knives I have tested or own that I'm really happy with.

Now, I can't see any other "objective" reason to get a Spyderco than their very nice and soft action, which make them very easy to open and close. Cheap steels work just as well IMNSHO, and sometimes better, for most purposes for people who know how to sharpen a knife.

Edit: Just added more balanced note on cost of heat treatment, as I have no idea what Spyderco pays for it anyway.

[dks]

The funny thing is that spyderco are considered cheap/low cost by many.. They have a good reputation.

My main issue is their look. The only one that looks good to me is the Manix.

They also have a cheaper range - their Byrd line.

I am not really qualified to give opinion on Spyderco, but the only OH opening knife I carry (for a few years) is the SRM763 which is made by the same people who make the Byrd line. I am happy with the, lower end, steel on it and have yet to sharpen it.

You may also want to consider cold steel, for decent, lower cost knives.

The captain should be here soon 

[styx]

When it comes to price all I can tell you that normally you'll pay more for Japan made Spyderco knives than if they were made in Italy, Taiwan, USA or China.

All the rave about Spyderco is simple - I think they were the first to put pocket clips on knives and the opening hole is truly ambidextrous while not intrusive when cutting something where you need the entire edge.

Outside of that I would only suggest that you take a look at their Ambitious, Kiwi (the stainless steel slipjoint version) or a UK Pen knife if you really want to try one out

[Corwyn]

I really am curious about this as well. I'll just say 2 things...

1. I don't have many non-sak folders but they all pale in comparison of action, sharpness and ergonomics to Spyderco. This includes Victorinox's Hunter Pro which I consider to be overpriced  smurf . Most other tactical-ish knives are far more expensive than Spyderco or are complete junk (maybe with the exception of Enlan/SRM, but those are still leaps and bounds behind Spyderco).

2. I find Spydies rather expensive too (maybe less so in US), but what about the fancy ones... Sebenza, Hinderer, Strider? I fail to see why I should buy (an arguably plain-looking knife) for more than my first 3 cars were worth http://www.knifeart.com/mistcu3.html .

PS: Ow and skip Micarta/Titanium stuff.. I find it overrated and really the Chinese 40 USD clones have the same materials and pretty smooth action...

[cbl51]

I really am curious about this as well. I'll just say 2 things...

1. I don't have many non-sak folders but they all pale in comparison of action, sharpness and ergonomics to Spyderco. This includes Victorinox's Hunter Pro which I consider to be overpriced  smurf . Most other tactical-ish knives are far more expensive than Spyderco or are complete junk (maybe with the exception of Enlan/SRM, but those are still leaps and bounds behind Spyderco).

2. I find Spydies rather expensive too (maybe less so in US), but what about the fancy ones... Sebenza, Hinderer, Strider? I fail to see why I should buy (an arguably plain-looking knife) for more than my first 3 cars were worth http://www.knifeart.com/mistcu3.html .

PS: Ow and skip Micarta/Titanium stuff.. I find it overrated and really the Chinese 40 USD clones have the same materials and pretty smooth action...

I guess that's where a lot of where I'm coming from. Very few of my pocket knives are non SAK, and since 1969, a SAK has been my main edc. I like the traditional pocket knives and carried a Buck 301 stockman for many years on and off, and my little Case peanut is a regular. I've been infatuated in the past with high end knives, and in my 20's thought the sun rose and set on Randall's. Being young and single and in the military and having more disposable income than was good for, I collected them. By the time I was in my late 30's, I realized that they were a huge waste of money, not being any better in the real world than a good factory production knife that cost a fraction of what the Randall went for. It was 99% hype. Same ting when I finally bought a Harley Davidson. It wasn't near as reliable as my old Honda, and in three years of ownership, got towed twice after leaving my on the road waiting for rescue. Something that never happened with a Honda.

So here I am as a skeptical senior citizen, wondering why the Spyderco is much more money than a Buck three bladed stockman or Victorinox that has more blades, more versatility, and cuts tuff just as well. Maybe I'm a cynic. Or maybe I'm a cynical skeptic. I like the idea of the easy opening of the Spyderco being an old fart with arthritis. But when I see Buck and Gerber small lock blades for under 20 dollars that are good using knives, I want to know what am I going to get by buying a Spyderco man bug for the price of two Victorinox tinkers, or three Buck Bantams or Gerber LST's?

And I guess if it was made in the U.S.A. I could see it being a bit more. But a Spyderco is made in japan. Japan, like Switzerland, is a mainstream industrial nation, and uses modern cutting edge production. Like Victorinox. So why is a single blade little knife with an injection molded handle, cost more than a 6 bladed/tool SAK that is way more complex in construction? To my, Victorinox has always seemed to be a benchmark in precision manufacture, with clean smooth assemblies. Non of my non SAK knives are anywhere near as smooth or well finished as my Victorinox.

[cbl51]

I really am curious about this as well. I'll just say 2 things...

1. I don't have many non-sak folders but they all pale in comparison of action, sharpness and ergonomics to Spyderco. This includes Victorinox's Hunter Pro which I consider to be overpriced  smurf . Most other tactical-ish knives are far more expensive than Spyderco or are complete junk (maybe with the exception of Enlan/SRM, but those are still leaps and bounds behind Spyderco).

2. I find Spydies rather expensive too (maybe less so in US), but what about the fancy ones... Sebenza, Hinderer, Strider? I fail to see why I should buy (an arguably plain-looking knife) for more than my first 3 cars were worth http://www.knifeart.com/mistcu3.html .

PS: Ow and skip Micarta/Titanium stuff.. I find it overrated and really the Chinese 40 USD clones have the same materials and pretty smooth action...

I guess that's where a lot of where I'm coming from. Very few of my pocket knives are non SAK, and since 1969, a SAK has been my main edc. I like the traditional pocket knives and carried a Buck 301 stockman for many years on and off, and my little Case peanut is a regular. I've been infatuated in the past with high end knives, and in my 20's thought the sun rose and set on Randall's. Being young and single and in the military and having more disposable income than was good for, I collected them. By the time I was in my late 30's, I realized that they were a huge waste of money, not being any better in the real world than a good factory production knife that cost a fraction of what the Randall went for. It was 99% hype. Only good thing about hem was when I went to sell them all off, I got most of my money back out of them. Same thing when I finally bought a Harley Davidson. It wasn't near as reliable as my old Honda, and in three years of ownership, got towed twice after leaving my on the road waiting for rescue. Something that never happened with a Honda. But with the waiting list at the dealers at the hight of the Harley insanity, I got 90% of my money back out of it.

So here I am as a skeptical senior citizen, wondering why the Spyderco is much more money than a Buck three bladed stockman or Victorinox that has more blades, more versatility, and cuts tuff just as well. Maybe I'm a cynic. Or maybe I'm a cynical skeptic. I like the idea of the easy opening of the Spyderco being an old fart with arthritis. But when I see Buck and Gerber small lock blades for under 20 dollars that are good using knives, I want to know what am I going to get by buying a Spyderco man bug for the price of two Victorinox tinkers, or three Buck Bantams or Gerber LST's?

And I guess if it was made in the U.S.A. I could see it being a bit more. But a Spyderco is made in japan. Japan, like Switzerland, is a mainstream industrial nation, and uses modern cutting edge production. Like Victorinox. So why is a single blade little knife with an injection molded handle, cost more than a 6 bladed/tool SAK that is way more complex in construction? To my, Victorinox has always seemed to be a benchmark in precision manufacture, with clean smooth assemblies. Non of my non SAK knives are anywhere near as smooth or well finished as my Victorinox.

[captain spaulding]

I really am curious about this as well. I'll just say 2 things...

1. I don't have many non-sak folders but they all pale in comparison of action, sharpness and ergonomics to Spyderco. This includes Victorinox's Hunter Pro which I consider to be overpriced  smurf . Most other tactical-ish knives are far more expensive than Spyderco or are complete junk (maybe with the exception of Enlan/SRM, but those are still leaps and bounds behind Spyderco).

2. I find Spydies rather expensive too (maybe less so in US), but what about the fancy ones... Sebenza, Hinderer, Strider? I fail to see why I should buy (an arguably plain-looking knife) for more than my first 3 cars were worth http://www.knifeart.com/mistcu3.html .

PS: Ow and skip Micarta/Titanium stuff.. I find it overrated and really the Chinese 40 USD clones have the same materials and pretty smooth action...

I guess that's where a lot of where I'm coming from. Very few of my pocket knives are non SAK, and since 1969, a SAK has been my main edc. I like the traditional pocket knives and carried a Buck 301 stockman for many years on and off, and my little Case peanut is a regular. I've been infatuated in the past with high end knives, and in my 20's thought the sun rose and set on Randall's. Being young and single and in the military and having more disposable income than was good for, I collected them. By the time I was in my late 30's, I realized that they were a huge waste of money, not being any better in the real world than a good factory production knife that cost a fraction of what the Randall went for. It was 99% hype. Same ting when I finally bought a Harley Davidson. It wasn't near as reliable as my old Honda, and in three years of ownership, got towed twice after leaving my on the road waiting for rescue. Something that never happened with a Honda.

So here I am as a skeptical senior citizen, wondering why the Spyderco is much more money than a Buck three bladed stockman or Victorinox that has more blades, more versatility, and cuts tuff just as well. Maybe I'm a cynic. Or maybe I'm a cynical skeptic. I like the idea of the easy opening of the Spyderco being an old fart with arthritis. But when I see Buck and Gerber small lock blades for under 20 dollars that are good using knives, I want to know what am I going to get by buying a Spyderco man bug for the price of two Victorinox tinkers, or three Buck Bantams or Gerber LST's?

And I guess if it was made in the U.S.A. I could see it being a bit more. But a Spyderco is made in japan. Japan, like Switzerland, is a mainstream industrial nation, and uses modern cutting edge production. Like Victorinox. So why is a single blade little knife with an injection molded handle, cost more than a 6 bladed/tool SAK that is way more complex in construction? To my, Victorinox has always seemed to be a benchmark in precision manufacture, with clean smooth assemblies. Non of my non SAK knives are anywhere near as smooth or well finished as my Victorinox.

   Only certain models are made in Japan. They have models from China, Japan, Taiwan, Italy, and the United States. As far as why people are willing to pay what they do for their knives is a complicated question and varies from person to person in my opinion. Some people want the name. Some people try a Spyderco, love it to death and are brand loyal so they keep buying. Others might have a deep connection with them as they did introduce many innovative things like the pocket clip, serrations, and the Spydie hole into the knife world. Many people love the ergonomics you get compared to a traditional knife as well as perfect jimping. Blade steel options has become a very interesting thing in the recent years and they sell a ton of knives because of blade steel alone. I also think since Spyderco's were/are very common with self defense instructors because of there ergonomics, pocket clip, and ease of deployment people wan't that "cool factor" and feel like even carrying a Spyderco makes you more prepared to defend yourself. (I do not agree on carrying one simply for this reason). Sal Glesser seems to be a excellent person and he actually listens to input that people give him about his knives. He will literally take input from forums and make prototypes to see how plausible and practical certain things are. He listens to his customers and builds knives accordingly. Something I wish other companies did.... Cough.... Leatherman.  For some people it might be one of these reasons that is the driving factor in buying a Spyderco or maybe for others it is because of all these reasons combined.
   For me personally I love Spydercos for most all these reasons. When I find a general collection of features I like I tend to stick with it. "If it aint broke, don't fix it." I personally like the ergonomics of most of their knives. I like the high thumb rap and incredible jimping. I like models with FFG blades. Nothing slices like a FFG blade. You aren't getting one of those on a traditional. I like the injection molded FRN handles. The bi-directional pattern they use on some models is excellent. It goes much beyond that though as they make many, many different models with many different materials. Not all their knives have FRN handles. They do G-10, full Stainless, as well as Carbon Fiber, ect..... Light is the new heavy. Back in the day someone would instantly determine if a knife was of good quality by simply putting it in their hand and seeing how heavy it was. The heavier the knife must of translated to more metal meaning it was better made or higher quality. That bell does not ring true anymore. The majority of people want lighter weight knives and the light weight does not translate into lesser quality and quite the opposite actually. Its a tough pill to swallow if you have been evaluating your knives this way for as long as you can remember. I like their business practice and Sal himself which is another factor. If you think the owner is a jack hat you probably wont be buying anything from him and putting money in his pocket. Probably the one thing that really sells Spyderco for me though is the Spydie hole! I absolutely love using a hole for deployment. It is just a much faster, more reliable way to deploy a blade in my opinion.
   Now I have to address something. I believe you are interested or at least comparing small traditional knives to the Spyderco Manbug and wondering why/if the cost is justifiable in this scenario alone, correct? To be completely honest you have to decide if certain things like the ease of opening and possible blade steels are worth the extra cost to you. In this particular case (for you) and being a knife on the smaller side the ease of the Spydie hole might not be as (well easy) as on the larger models. I'm not saying you wont be able to open the knife one handed i'm just saying everyone's different and on this size of knife its not as universal if that makes any sense. Just be aware of that. Pertaining to blade steel. H-1 while not a well know "performance" steel is rust proof and will never even develop a single speck of rust which for me is a HUGE factor. It does come at a increased price and you will not find it in a FFG blade. I wanted to adress the price of the Manbug/Ladybug line as it seems as that is what your main focus is. Spyderco guys don't hang me for this, but I personally think the Ladybug/Manbug line is generally overpriced.  Shocker I know.  From a 10 second search the Manbug is running around $40 on the cheaper side. The Ladybug about $34. I personally would not pay these prices for either of these knives. Deals do come around and I got my Ladybug for $17-$20 (in that range) if I remember correctly. Keep a eye out and you can finds some deals.
   Anyways that's basically my spiel on why some and myself buy Spydercos. If you have any questions feel free to ask in the thread or PM me. Hope this could help and/or explain a few things.

[jekostas]

There are Spydercos made all over the world, including the US

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that they're all made in Japan.

[cbl51]

Opps, double post.

[cbl51]

I really am curious about this as well. I'll just say 2 things...

1. I don't have many non-sak folders but they all pale in comparison of action, sharpness and ergonomics to Spyderco. This includes Victorinox's Hunter Pro which I consider to be overpriced  smurf . Most other tactical-ish knives are far more expensive than Spyderco or are complete junk (maybe with the exception of Enlan/SRM, but those are still leaps and bounds behind Spyderco).

2. I find Spydies rather expensive too (maybe less so in US), but what about the fancy ones... Sebenza, Hinderer, Strider? I fail to see why I should buy (an arguably plain-looking knife) for more than my first 3 cars were worth http://www.knifeart.com/mistcu3.html .

PS: Ow and skip Micarta/Titanium stuff.. I find it overrated and really the Chinese 40 USD clones have the same materials and pretty smooth action...

I guess that's where a lot of where I'm coming from. Very few of my pocket knives are non SAK, and since 1969, a SAK has been my main edc. I like the traditional pocket knives and carried a Buck 301 stockman for many years on and off, and my little Case peanut is a regular. I've been infatuated in the past with high end knives, and in my 20's thought the sun rose and set on Randall's. Being young and single and in the military and having more disposable income than was good for, I collected them. By the time I was in my late 30's, I realized that they were a huge waste of money, not being any better in the real world than a good factory production knife that cost a fraction of what the Randall went for. It was 99% hype. Same ting when I finally bought a Harley Davidson. It wasn't near as reliable as my old Honda, and in three years of ownership, got towed twice after leaving my on the road waiting for rescue. Something that never happened with a Honda.

So here I am as a skeptical senior citizen, wondering why the Spyderco is much more money than a Buck three bladed stockman or Victorinox that has more blades, more versatility, and cuts tuff just as well. Maybe I'm a cynic. Or maybe I'm a cynical skeptic. I like the idea of the easy opening of the Spyderco being an old fart with arthritis. But when I see Buck and Gerber small lock blades for under 20 dollars that are good using knives, I want to know what am I going to get by buying a Spyderco man bug for the price of two Victorinox tinkers, or three Buck Bantams or Gerber LST's?

And I guess if it was made in the U.S.A. I could see it being a bit more. But a Spyderco is made in japan. Japan, like Switzerland, is a mainstream industrial nation, and uses modern cutting edge production. Like Victorinox. So why is a single blade little knife with an injection molded handle, cost more than a 6 bladed/tool SAK that is way more complex in construction? To my, Victorinox has always seemed to be a benchmark in precision manufacture, with clean smooth assemblies. Non of my non SAK knives are anywhere near as smooth or well finished as my Victorinox.

   Only certain models are made in Japan. They have models from China, Japan, Taiwan, Italy, and the United States. As far as why people are willing to pay what they do for their knives is a complicated question and varies from person to person in my opinion. Some people want the name. Some people try a Spyderco, love it to death and are brand loyal so they keep buying. Others might have a deep connection with them as they did introduce many innovative things like the pocket clip, serrations, and the Spydie hole into the knife world. Many people love the ergonomics you get compared to a traditional knife as well as perfect jimping. Blade steel options has become a very interesting thing in the recent years and they sell a ton of knives because of blade steel alone. I also think since Spyderco's were/are very common with self defense instructors because of there ergonomics, pocket clip, and ease of deployment people wan't that "cool factor" and feel like even carrying a Spyderco makes you more prepared to defend yourself. (I do not agree on carrying one simply for this reason). Sal Glesser seems to be a excellent person and he actually listens to input that people give him about his knives. He will literally take input from forums and make prototypes to see how plausible and practical certain things are. He listens to his customers and builds knives accordingly. Something I wish other companies did.... Cough.... Leatherman.  For some people it might be one of these reasons that is the driving factor in buying a Spyderco or maybe for others it is because of all these reasons combined.
   For me personally I love Spydercos for most all these reasons. When I find a general collection of features I like I tend to stick with it. "If it aint broke, don't fix it." I personally like the ergonomics of most of their knives. I like the high thumb rap and incredible jimping. I like models with FFG blades. Nothing slices like a FFG blade. You aren't getting one of those on a traditional. I like the injection molded FRN handles. The bi-directional pattern they use on some models is excellent. It goes much beyond that though as they make many, many different models with many different materials. Not all their knives have FRN handles. They do G-10, full Stainless, as well as Carbon Fiber, ect..... Light is the new heavy. Back in the day someone would instantly determine if a knife was of good quality by simply putting it in their hand and seeing how heavy it was. The heavier the knife must of translated to more metal meaning it was better made or higher quality. That bell does not ring true anymore. The majority of people want lighter weight knives and the light weight does not translate into lesser quality and quite the opposite actually. Its a tough pill to swallow if you have been evaluating your knives this way for as long as you can remember. I like their business practice and Sal himself which is another factor. If you think the owner is a jack hat you probably wont be buying anything from him and putting money in his pocket. Probably the one thing that really sells Spyderco for me though is the Spydie hole! I absolutely love using a hole for deployment. It is just a much faster, more reliable way to deploy a blade in my opinion.
   Now I have to address something. I believe you are interested or at least comparing small traditional knives to the Spyderco Manbug and wondering why/if the cost is justifiable in this scenario alone, correct? To be completely honest you have to decide if certain things like the ease of opening and possible blade steels are worth the extra cost to you. In this particular case (for you) and being a knife on the smaller side the ease of the Spydie hole might not be as (well easy) as on the larger models. I'm not saying you wont be able to open the knife one handed i'm just saying everyone's different and on this size of knife its not as universal if that makes any sense. Just be aware of that. Pertaining to blade steel. H-1 while not a well know "performance" steel is rust proof and will never even develop a single speck of rust which for me is a HUGE factor. It does come at a increased price and you will not find it in a FFG blade. I wanted to adress the price of the Manbug/Ladybug line as it seems as that is what your main focus is. Spyderco guys don't hang me for this, but I personally think the Ladybug/Manbug line is generally overpriced.  Shocker I know.  From a 10 second search the Manbug is running around $40 on the cheaper side. The Ladybug about $34. I personally would not pay these prices for either of these knives. Deals do come around and I got my Ladybug for $17-$20 (in that range) if I remember correctly. Keep a eye out and you can finds some deals.
   Anyways that's basically my spiel on why some and myself buy Spydercos. If you have any questions feel free to ask in the thread or PM me. Hope this could help and/or explain a few things.

Thank you for the detailed answer. It's a good spiel.

I am not trying to compare the man bug to the traditional, but to small knives in general, and the small U.S. made lock blades in particular. I like light weight, and never did like a heavy knife in the pocket. I'm probably the only human male on the planet that refused to buy a Buck 110 during the 1960's and 70's when they were THE knife to wear. I just couldn't see a angle blade knife that weighed the same as a small boat anchor. But then, I was always a SAK fan from high school on, so I got used to efficiency per ounce at an early age. Growing up dirt poor and in financial straits didn't help, with going through high school on the W.O.C. program. That was for financially challenged families so I wen tot school three majors in the boring and by 10;30 was out and on my way t my job. So I guess I grew up with a outlook of scrutinizing my purchases for value per dollar.

To this day I still have that outlook. Now a retired senior citizen living on social security, I still scrutinize my expenditures. Looking at how well the little Gerber LST has served, and changed my mind about the 'modern' knives vs the traditional pocket knives I'm used to with nickel silver or brass bolsters and jigged bone scales. I've become very enlightened about how well a very lightweight zytell handle knife can serve, and stand up to a lot of use. The Gerber LST was the very first modern knife I ever used, so it became sort of a  benchmark for me when I was looking at non SAK knives. My list of non SAK knives carried and used over 40 years includes the Opinel, Case peanut, Mini Buck lock blade with black plastic handle, and the afor mentioned Gerber LST.

So, there I am, coming from using Gerber and Buck that are under 20 dollars. They performed well, and sparked my interest in light weight modern material knives. So I  began to look at the Spyderco lady bug and now man bug. But being turned off by the out of proportion price tag, I began to question if there was something I was 'not getting.'  Hence, this thread. 

I understand the VG-10 is a better steel. But like I said, I'm cursed by having a background in production machinist trade. I know how this stuff is made, and I know metals. I'm sure under laboratory tests VG-10 will outperform 420HC. Even with Buck's heat treat. But…in the real world, opening mail, UPS boxes, plastic wrapping, and occasional snack food duty, I doubt I will notice muh of a difference. And the better steel is maybe a dollar difference in manufacturing price.

I come close to pulling the trigger on a man bug, but then I look at my Victorinox cadet and think of the quality and utility of it compared to a single blade knife. I look at the Buck Bantam and Gerber LST and see a good suing knife for 16.95, and I don't pull the trigger. I don't want anything with a pocket clip, because having tried one, I hated it. Snagged on seat belts and got in the way too much. Took the clip off the knife and chucked it. I like a small knife that I can just shove down in the pocket and forget about until I need it. Small, lightweight, unobtrusive. And compatibly priced. The last part is why I'm trying to understand the Spyderco thing.

[captain spaulding]

In all honesty it sounds like the simple Victorinox Classic is a perfect knife for you. Its small. Has a few very useful features. The price is right ($10) and the blade steel is not a "Super Steel", but in its own right it really is. I assume you have owned or currently own one. Spydercos are not for everyone and will not fit everyone's needs or wants especially in this particular case. If you can find a ladybug on clearance or something like that I would say its worth a try just to see so you can stop wondering if it can really hold its own in your EDC.

[Corwyn]

If you can find a ladybug on clearance or something like that I would say its worth a try just to see so you can stop wondering if it can really hold its own in your EDC.

THIS! I'm poor as dirt and generally hate tacticcy knives, but just fell in love with Spyderco as I first held one - instant convert. 

[kirk13]

Third attempt at this now...

The Persistance really impressed me,and I reckon the whole 'budget range' are gonna be good. I'm not a fan of UKPKs. Owned one,played with a few more. I've got a Squeak,which I like(funnily,more now that I've had my hands on a Dragonfly).

I've really enjoyed the Dragonfly( and I will update the thread soon ) but whether it justifies its cost I still don't know.


My bottom line on this is: if you can justify stumping up for a Case over the equivalent Rough Rider,then you can justify a Spydie over a cheaper Buck or Gerber

[harronek]

Spyderco really came of age when they introduced the Delica and Endura .
Those two models showed the world the Spyderco concept and to this day they lead the race in that section of the market .
They are considered now to be the budget models of the Spyderco range ( if you exclude the Chinese made resilience , tenacious etc )
My suggestion would be to take a deep breath and pay the money for a Delica , clip it in your pocket and start living .
Even if you have to force yourself initially to carry it after a couple of weeks you will end up begrudgingly admitting that its a heck of a knife for the money paid .
If you want to experience the Spyderco Road then start at the beginning . Then you will understand .

Ken

[AimlessWanderer]

Cbl51,

Having read many of your posts, and getting a feel for your philosophies, I'm not convinced you will get value from the purchase.

I have one Spyderco, and have handled others. I have also had a few items from the Byrd line. I think the bast knife from the whole family that I have personally experienced, is the Byrd Tern. It doesn't have a lock which for me makes it less hassle and safer to use (other people feel safer with a lock), it's one handed opening and closing, and it has a sufficiently deep carry clip.

If you like/need clipped locking OHO folders, then Spyderco is a good brand. If you don't need a clip, or you don't need OHO, or you don't need a lock, Spyderco becomes less appealing. As for the performance steels, I think they're a marketting exercise first and foremost. They can be more prone to chipping than traditional blade steels, and can be harder to sharpen on the fly. Having previously bought a couple of more expensive knives, I find that the cheaper standard blade steels offer me better value.

You may well like the knife, but my gut feeling is that you won't feel like you have got value for money. You don't get off on the tactical side of things, you don't need a locking blade to stop your skin from leaking or your fingers falling off, and you can achieve everything you want to with a knife that's familiar to your fingers and a fraction of the price.

Maybe one of our members over there can lend you something to play with for a while, before you cough up for something that may not suit you. I may well have got this wrong Carl, but it just seems to me that you may be underwhelmed and out of pocket

[jekostas]

High end knife steels are always a double edged proposition (pun highly intended).  Yes, they keep an edge longer and for some situations this is really useful.

On the other hand they're harder to maintain (rust and sharpening), and more expensive to produce, machine and finish which drives up the cost of the end product.  For some people this is an absolutely fair tradeoff, for many it's not.  I look at the folding knives I EDC these days and the steels in all of them are moderate at best - 1.4116, AUS-8, AUS-10 (rust magnet, BTW), 8Cr13MoV.  Like Trad, I prefer steels I can easily sharpen and maintain on my own.

I have other knives with better steels but they tend to be mostly ornamental.

[Grathr]

A couple of years ago I had never tried a Spyderco. Then I got myself a Byrd Meadowlark, and I loved it. Then I got a Byrd Tern, and loved that even more.
Now I own several Spydercos, and I think they are great knives.
They are well made, comfortable to use and are surprisingly efficient knives. But  they are pricey. IMO a $60 spydeco is not twice as good a well made $30 knife by a well reputed company like CRKT or Kershaw.

If I may come with a suggestion, I would suggest getting a Byrd Tern like someone else here suggested. They are about $25, and for that you get all the advantages of a spyderco (well made, easy to open, good ergonomics and very efficient) but made from a less fancy steel.


Sent from a device made from star dust using tapatalk

[captain spaulding]

A couple of years ago I had never tried a Spyderco. Then I got myself a Byrd Meadowlark, and I loved it. Then I got a Byrd Tern, and loved that even more.
Now I own several Spydercos, and I think they are great knives.
They are well made, comfortable to use and are surprisingly efficient knives. But  they are pricey. IMO a $60 spydeco is not twice as good a well made $30 knife by a well reputed company like CRKT or Kershaw.

If I may come with a suggestion, I would suggest getting a Byrd Tern like someone else here suggested. They are about $25, and for that you get all the advantages of a spyderco (well made, easy to open, good ergonomics and very efficient) but made from a less fancy steel.


Sent from a device made from star dust using tapatalk

I would respectfully disagree. I would say stay far away from the Byrd line. I personally think they are garbage and a complete waste of money. No one should make a judgement on Spyderco from the Byrd line. You would be better off spending $10 more and getting a far superior Tenacious.

[Grathr]

A couple of years ago I had never tried a Spyderco. Then I got myself a Byrd Meadowlark, and I loved it. Then I got a Byrd Tern, and loved that even more.
Now I own several Spydercos, and I think they are great knives.
They are well made, comfortable to use and are surprisingly efficient knives. But  they are pricey. IMO a $60 spydeco is not twice as good a well made $30 knife by a well reputed company like CRKT or Kershaw.

If I may come with a suggestion, I would suggest getting a Byrd Tern like someone else here suggested. They are about $25, and for that you get all the advantages of a spyderco (well made, easy to open, good ergonomics and very efficient) but made from a less fancy steel.


Sent from a device made from star dust using tapatalk

I would respectfully disagree. I would say stay far away from the Byrd line. I personally think they are garbage and a complete waste of money. No one should make a judgement on Spyderco from the Byrd line. You would be better off spending $10 more and getting a far superior Tenacious.

I have to disagree with you on this one Captain.
While the Tenacious line is great, (I have both the Ambitious and Tenacious) they are also quite heavy.  And if I understand Cbl's needs correctly, he is after a smaller light knife.
The Byrd Tern G10 is lightweight, cheaper than the Tenacious line, and IMO a very nice knife for the price.


Sent from a device made from star dust using tapatalk

[AimlessWanderer]

I'm with Grathr on this too. I have an original black G10 scaled Spyderco UKPK in S30V, and I don't consider this a better knife than the far cheaper Byrd Tern. OK the pocket clip rides slightly deeper on the spydie, but the jimping is better on the Byrd. The spydie holds an edge longer, but the byrd is easier to maintain, and both knives cut very well. Is the UKPK 4x better to warrant the difference in price? Nope! I carry the Tern, and bought a spare.

[captain spaulding]

A couple of years ago I had never tried a Spyderco. Then I got myself a Byrd Meadowlark, and I loved it. Then I got a Byrd Tern, and loved that even more.
Now I own several Spydercos, and I think they are great knives.
They are well made, comfortable to use and are surprisingly efficient knives. But  they are pricey. IMO a $60 spydeco is not twice as good a well made $30 knife by a well reputed company like CRKT or Kershaw.

If I may come with a suggestion, I would suggest getting a Byrd Tern like someone else here suggested. They are about $25, and for that you get all the advantages of a spyderco (well made, easy to open, good ergonomics and very efficient) but made from a less fancy steel.


Sent from a device made from star dust using tapatalk

I would respectfully disagree. I would say stay far away from the Byrd line. I personally think they are garbage and a complete waste of money. No one should make a judgement on Spyderco from the Byrd line. You would be better off spending $10 more and getting a far superior Tenacious.

I have to disagree with you on this one Captain.
While the Tenacious line is great, (I have both the Ambitious and Tenacious) they are also quite heavy.  And if I understand Cbl's needs correctly, he is after a smaller light knife.
The Byrd Tern G10 is lightweight, cheaper than the Tenacious line, and IMO a very nice knife for the price.


Sent from a device made from star dust using tapatalk

I do not think he is actually in the market for one, but was more just curious. Even if he is from his post the Tern would be much to large anyways and I believe he mentioned he does not want to use a clip but rather drop it into the pocket. I was only mentioning the Tenacious for the simple fact of making my point that I personally think the Byrd line is a waste of money and you can get a true Spyderco that is superior in my opinion for not much more. I was in no way suggesting he actually purchase a Tenacious as again, this is in no way what he was interested in. He is looking for something the size of the Gerber LST.

Pay attention guys.     

[AimlessWanderer]

 

And I was saying I think Byrd generally offers better value

Pay attention Cap'n   

[shark_za]

The only difference between the Byrd and Tenacious family is the branding.
Made in the same factory with the same materials.

While I don’t like the Byrd FRN handle design the G10 versions of the Cara Cara, Meadowlark and Robin are some of my favourites.

I'm a Spyderco nut and struggle to justify a 100% increase in cost for a Delica over a G10 Meadowlark.

But talk Taichung man jewellery and who cares what it costs.

[cbl51]

Cbl51,

Having read many of your posts, and getting a feel for your philosophies, I'm not convinced you will get value from the purchase.

I have one Spyderco, and have handled others. I have also had a few items from the Byrd line. I think the bast knife from the whole family that I have personally experienced, is the Byrd Tern. It doesn't have a lock which for me makes it less hassle and safer to use (other people feel safer with a lock), it's one handed opening and closing, and it has a sufficiently deep carry clip.

If you like/need clipped locking OHO folders, then Spyderco is a good brand. If you don't need a clip, or you don't need OHO, or you don't need a lock, Spyderco becomes less appealing. As for the performance steels, I think they're a marketting exercise first and foremost. They can be more prone to chipping than traditional blade steels, and can be harder to sharpen on the fly. Having previously bought a couple of more expensive knives, I find that the cheaper standard blade steels offer me better value.

You may well like the knife, but my gut feeling is that you won't feel like you have got value for money. You don't get off on the tactical side of things, you don't need a locking blade to stop your skin from leaking or your fingers falling off, and you can achieve everything you want to with a knife that's familiar to your fingers and a fraction of the price.

Maybe one of our members over there can lend you something to play with for a while, before you cough up for something that may not suit you. I may well have got this wrong Carl, but it just seems to me that you may be underwhelmed and out of pocket

Ya know, I think you just may have nailed it for me with this post. Thank you. I think maybe this white dwarf stage of my life, it may be a mistake to depart from what I know. I've been spoiled by a lifetime of using SAK's, and the occasional Buck knife. Maybe I'll just keep on keeping on. Thank you 50ft-trad.

[captain spaulding]

In all honesty it sounds like the simple Victorinox Classic is a perfect knife for you. Its small. Has a few very useful features. The price is right ($10) and the blade steel is not a "Super Steel", but in its own right it really is. I assume you have owned or currently own one. Spydercos are not for everyone and will not fit everyone's needs or wants especially in this particular case. If you can find a ladybug on clearance or something like that I would say its worth a try just to see so you can stop wondering if it can really hold its own in your EDC.

The good Captain is getting no love. My first recommendation. 

[AimlessWanderer]

Cbl51,

Having read many of your posts, and getting a feel for your philosophies, I'm not convinced you will get value from the purchase.

I have one Spyderco, and have handled others. I have also had a few items from the Byrd line. I think the bast knife from the whole family that I have personally experienced, is the Byrd Tern. It doesn't have a lock which for me makes it less hassle and safer to use (other people feel safer with a lock), it's one handed opening and closing, and it has a sufficiently deep carry clip.

If you like/need clipped locking OHO folders, then Spyderco is a good brand. If you don't need a clip, or you don't need OHO, or you don't need a lock, Spyderco becomes less appealing. As for the performance steels, I think they're a marketting exercise first and foremost. They can be more prone to chipping than traditional blade steels, and can be harder to sharpen on the fly. Having previously bought a couple of more expensive knives, I find that the cheaper standard blade steels offer me better value.

You may well like the knife, but my gut feeling is that you won't feel like you have got value for money. You don't get off on the tactical side of things, you don't need a locking blade to stop your skin from leaking or your fingers falling off, and you can achieve everything you want to with a knife that's familiar to your fingers and a fraction of the price.

Maybe one of our members over there can lend you something to play with for a while, before you cough up for something that may not suit you. I may well have got this wrong Carl, but it just seems to me that you may be underwhelmed and out of pocket

Ya know, I think you just may have nailed it for me with this post. Thank you. I think maybe this white dwarf stage of my life, it may be a mistake to depart from what I know. I've been spoiled by a lifetime of using SAK's, and the occasional Buck knife. Maybe I'll just keep on keeping on. Thank you 50ft-trad.

  Glad I could help, and sorry if it's a bitof a downer. Shame you can't just borrow one to play with for a while

[strmliner]

Cbl51,

Having read many of your posts, and getting a feel for your philosophies, I'm not convinced you will get value from the purchase.

I have one Spyderco, and have handled others. I have also had a few items from the Byrd line. I think the bast knife from the whole family that I have personally experienced, is the Byrd Tern. It doesn't have a lock which for me makes it less hassle and safer to use (other people feel safer with a lock), it's one handed opening and closing, and it has a sufficiently deep carry clip.

If you like/need clipped locking OHO folders, then Spyderco is a good brand. If you don't need a clip, or you don't need OHO, or you don't need a lock, Spyderco becomes less appealing. As for the performance steels, I think they're a marketting exercise first and foremost. They can be more prone to chipping than traditional blade steels, and can be harder to sharpen on the fly. Having previously bought a couple of more expensive knives, I find that the cheaper standard blade steels offer me better value.

You may well like the knife, but my gut feeling is that you won't feel like you have got value for money. You don't get off on the tactical side of things, you don't need a locking blade to stop your skin from leaking or your fingers falling off, and you can achieve everything you want to with a knife that's familiar to your fingers and a fraction of the price.

Maybe one of our members over there can lend you something to play with for a while, before you cough up for something that may not suit you. I may well have got this wrong Carl, but it just seems to me that you may be underwhelmed and out of pocket

Ya know, I think you just may have nailed it for me with this post. Thank you. I think maybe this white dwarf stage of my life, it may be a mistake to depart from what I know. I've been spoiled by a lifetime of using SAK's, and the occasional Buck knife. Maybe I'll just keep on keeping on. Thank you 50ft-trad.

Just caught this thread from a month ago.  What caught my attention was the title, "Educate me on Spyderco".  When I read Cbl51's question, it really struck a chord for me.  I, like Cbl51, have that same question going through my mind.

And the replies and suggestions from the different members were really good.  Quite a few went to some length to share good information and perspectives with Cbl51...well done team!

I'm an SAK guy, and a Buck-kind-of-guy...along the pattern that the Capt shared regarding comfort and a certain amount of brand loyalty.  Just like Cbl51, I've tried pocket clip knives and don't find them comfortable to me.  And correct, I'm not very swayed by the "cool" factor of newer, tactical looking knives.  Heck, I had a Buck Lux Pro, which has an extremely smooth action, is pocketable once you take the clip off, and has S30V steel.  After a short amount of time, I realized it's not my style, so I gave it to a good friend for Christmas...he's also 20yrs younger and loves it.  That was in the price range of the Sypderco's...not a mistake I want to make too often, and I'm not on a fixed income.

If I remember correctly, Cbl51 said he has a Cadet, a Case, a Buck Bantam, and Gerber LST.  Great variation for an EDC rotation, if he's comfortable with it and they last.  If not, there a quite a few blades/tools in the 20-35 range that would most likely fit his comfort level and needs, be they Vics, Buck, Gerbers, CRKT, etc.  If Cbl51 is looking to replace a knife in his collection, then there are comparable replacements without spending a lot or giving up great functionality.

As for me, you all have answered many of my questions regarding Spyderco...thank you!  But I'm not running out right now to get one.  I guess I'd rather continue playing with my SAKs, Bucks, and thinking about maybe a fixed bladed Mora.

[mikekoz]

   I have been interested in Spyderco's, at least some of them, for a while now also. I never really got into modern folders until maybe a year ago. I find most of the Spyderco's ugly, but I also feel that way about the several that I own from Benchmade, Buck, Gerber, etc. The old slip joints looked like works of art! I remember going into a knife store a few years back that sold Benchmades. They all looked the same to me with the black handles. The few Spyderco's that I have handled were very lightweight and felt cheaply made. I have seen some online with G10 handles that looked much better, but have never seen any in stores. I prefer knives like this with G10 handles and a steel liner inside the scales.

[Corwyn]

Update opinion since my last post on this issue.

Since than I got a Spydie Tenacious and fell in love with it so bad I also got a Paramilitary 2 and a Dragonfly ZDP, selling all my Leathermans and Gerbers to get thepennies for them... you make what you want of it, but these things do have a magic, great looks, perfect locking, top materials and the best ergonomics I've ever seen...

Just get a Paramilitary 2 or a Manix 2, play with it for a bit and you'll understand what's with all the Spydie fuss...