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My Juice 2270

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My Juice
« on: April 03, 2016, 06:30:00 PM »
Juice modding

So you want to mod a Juice, or more likely you just want to see what I did, so let's get started. 

Juices are not commonly modded, if the numbers of threads on here are any indication, and for good reason they are not easy to mod (also I would guess that it is also due to be fairly expensive).  The construction of juices like a SAK is pin based, but unlike a SAK the liners are a major structural feature that not only separate tools but also hold the backsprings in place.

Here are the past threads on juice modding (it got a little long):

Show content

At any rate this project started with the simple mandate of fix what ails this S2 mainly a missing spring and the liner pressing into the scissors (looking at pictures this seems to be a common fault and I fixed it by ditching the opener the wider liner seems to be unable to handle the three springs).   



So I wound up buying this used XE6.  Which was missing a spring despite not being described as such :rant:






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Re: My Juice
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2016, 08:49:32 PM »
Wow, nice job putting those together! Im going to spend a little time delving into those, as some of them I hadn't seen before!

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Re: My Juice
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2016, 09:57:08 PM »
Disassembly

One more link (the juice patent it might be useful)
http://www.google.com/patents/US6622327?dq=6622327

The first thing to do is file down the heads of the pins. If you care about saving the scales I recommend the SAK file, it really tore right through those heads, if you don't care about the scales then go whole hog.  A grinder or dermal tool would probably work but filing by hand was no problem.





I would also suggest scoring an "x" into the pin I had problems with the drill wondering around.  In general I filed, drilled, then picked at the head with my powerlock trying to remove material then repeated the process.





Then comes the pin punch, you might want to drill a smaller hole into the pin so you have some traction. A few whacks with a hammer and the pin with start to move then a few more and you'll be left with a bunch of parts trying to explode under the springs.  Have a few ziplock bags around to catch the parts.  Having done it both ways attack the pin farthest away from the pliers first then the other one.

I should note this was the hardest step the pins are made of pretty stern stuff, I broke a pin punch and nail set on these pins (I am sure there was operator error in there abut still two dead tools and 4 pins removed).  The other important thing to pass along is that you have to remove the pins not the tools from the pins.  The liner that the pliers attach to are u shaped, if you did as I did try to bend the liner to slip the tools off you will bend the liner out of shape, although it may still be useable.




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Re: My Juice
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2016, 09:59:59 PM »
Wow, nice job putting those together! Im going to spend a little time delving into those, as some of them I hadn't seen before!

Some really good ideas in there. Some that I really wish still had the pictures. Like Syph's supposed Alox juice.



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Re: My Juice
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2016, 11:54:04 PM »
Im just as frustrated as you are that he hasnt finished his mod yet yud, but this is a little passive agressive.... 

J-screw's unfinished super juice
http://forum.multitool.or...ex.php/topic,19553.0.html

:rofl:

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Re: My Juice
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2016, 02:15:05 AM »
Im just as frustrated as you are that he hasnt finished his mod yet yud, but this is a little passive agressive.... 

J-screw's unfinished super juice
http://forum.multitool.or...ex.php/topic,19553.0.html

:rofl:
:oops: that was not my intention, I was merely noting that the status of the thread was unfinished (the mod was finished apparently).  Although I should of noted that Baja's refurb was or at least feels unfinished.  Many of these are more thoughts then full on mods.



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Re: My Juice
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2016, 06:30:10 PM »
Oh yeah one more thing about driving pins, the edge of the vice I used left deep marks in the scales, this might be fixed by putting down some leather or wood.

Now on to assembly. The pins are 1/8."  As Syph mention in another thread knife kits' pivots have been slightly big, so he recommends Alpha knife supply.  At any rate if your pivots are too big I chucked the pivot in the drill press and used a file and sandpaper to bring them down to size.

Assembly is pretty self explanatory, just one note make sure that the lanyard ring is placed so the notch is up when closed I made that mistake :oops:.



So finally to my Juice. Originally the plan was add a file to the S2.  But then I realized that I don't use the openers and the added spring seems to make the liner sit as to rub up against the scissors.  So the can opener got dropped and the extra space was filled with the serrated blade.  At some point I might try to add in a awl.





Now the much ballyhooed springs, first off you might want to hold off on the springs until the scales are on.  The side springs don't want to be there and the will leave if given the chance.  I fully expect to redo all four side tools before I am done.

Personally I did not find the springs that hard to do, granted that is do to Metro's pioneering work, discovered with the historiography. 

I used a nail set and pushed the springs in by hand (although I did give one a tap with a hammer).  Also I used a bottle opener on a SAK and a SOG can opener to move the springs from side to side.  The three screwdrivers springs seem to be the easiest to place, followed by the scissors, the the blades, and the hardest seem t the Philips springs.



Well that is where the Juice DL4 stands till the post delivers my scale material.






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Re: My Juice
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2016, 07:50:10 PM »
Nice job Yud! did you do all that with a hand held drill?

Also, how thick is it?

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Re: My Juice
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2016, 08:49:56 PM »
Thanks it is a little over a half inch thick.

I used a drill press instead of handheld drill.  But I think you could probably skip the drill and just use files. 

The tool list:
Drill press and bits
Files
Powerlock
Sandpaper
pin punch and nail set
hammer
screw drivers



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Re: My Juice
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2016, 03:18:38 AM »
 :woohoo:

Done, I just need some decent pictures.




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Re: My Juice
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2016, 10:48:29 AM »
That looks really nice.

Well done, and thank you for the detailed pics.

Cheers,

Pete
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Re: My Juice
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2016, 12:16:40 PM »
Nice job!

That's us mobile


Nate
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Re: My Juice
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2016, 05:25:17 PM »
Great job!

Whats the plan with your leftovers? Another juice mod?

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Re: My Juice
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2016, 05:34:25 PM »
Great job! I don't understand why LM doesn't produce more variations on the Juice line.

....this feeling gets old and so do your eyes. This is why, i hate you, 'cause....
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Re: My Juice
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2016, 05:43:57 PM »
I suspect it is because the Juice line is leathermans least popular line if tools, because they are trying to compete with the same niche that SAKs already dominate. Plus, I know of only one store in the area (5th largest metropolitan area in the USA) that has any Juices (and they only have two in stock), so availability is probably an issue as well.

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Re: My Juice
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2016, 09:27:48 PM »
Nice job!

That's us mobile


Great job!

Whats the plan with your leftovers? Another juice mod?
Great job! I don't understand why LM doesn't produce more variations on the Juice line.
That looks really nice.

Well done, and thank you for the detailed pics.

Cheers,

Pete

Thank you all but I probably should of mentioned that that is an old photo. Here it is with the custom scales.





Asian water buffalo scales.



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Re: My Juice
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2016, 09:35:20 PM »
I suspect it is because the Juice line is leathermans least popular line if tools, because they are trying to compete with the same niche that SAKs already dominate. Plus, I know of only one store in the area (5th largest metropolitan area in the USA) that has any Juices (and they only have two in stock), so availability is probably an issue as well.

Leatherman have no one to blame but themselves for the Juice line not being more popular - they haven't made any meaningful changes to the line. They should add tweezers/toothpick/pin/pen to the scales and offer a pocket clip. Also, offer different tool combos, such as the one Yud created. I really like the Juice, it's well built and a very handy size.

....this feeling gets old and so do your eyes. This is why, i hate you, 'cause....
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Re: My Juice
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2016, 09:58:30 PM »
Great job! I don't understand why LM doesn't produce more variations on the Juice line.
At a guess they are too expensive, for whatever reason as a result they can't compete with Vic meaning that their full potential has never been fully realized.  If Vic could put the juice pliers in two 91mm frames at there normal cost I think the idea could fulfill its promise.



Great job!

Whats the plan with your leftovers? Another juice mod?
Not sure I don't have enough springs to make another full juice, have been thinking about a LM farmer.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2016, 10:02:22 PM by yud »



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Re: My Juice
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2016, 08:49:07 PM »
Leatherman have no one to blame but themselves for the Juice line not being more popular - they haven't made any meaningful changes to the line. They should add tweezers/toothpick/pin/pen to the scales and offer a pocket clip. Also, offer different tool combos, such as the one Yud created. I really like the Juice, it's well built and a very handy size.

The scales on the juice just cover the skeleton of the tool, there isn't any room for any removable parts without making the tool wider.  The Juice Pro however, has a plastic spacer that is used to hold a tweezers.  I think there is room for more of these without widening the tool that could hold a stick pin or a tooth pick, a pen however would be a more ambitious mod, but there is some genius modders around here. I have a few other ideas for some cool juice mods, but I would need someone else to do them or have an endless supply of juices to destroy as I learn how
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Re: My Juice
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2016, 11:08:15 PM »
Leatherman have no one to blame but themselves for the Juice line not being more popular - they haven't made any meaningful changes to the line. They should add tweezers/toothpick/pin/pen to the scales and offer a pocket clip. Also, offer different tool combos, such as the one Yud created. I really like the Juice, it's well built and a very handy size.

The scales on the juice just cover the skeleton of the tool, there isn't any room for any removable parts without making the tool wider.  The Juice Pro however, has a plastic spacer that is used to hold a tweezers.  I think there is room for more of these without widening the tool that could hold a stick pin or a tooth pick, a pen however would be a more ambitious mod, but there is some genius modders around here. I have a few other ideas for some cool juice mods, but I would need someone else to do them or have an endless supply of juices to destroy as I learn how

Trust me in comparison to taking the thing apart a scale mod is easy.  You just have to have the skills to cut the grooves in the scales, the bigger problem is working out what goes where. 

But more to the point there is no reason that LM had to make the scales the way they did.  They could of made them bigger to include scale tools or they could of added them other places.  Also I don't think adding extra width to a juice is all that horrible.



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Re: My Juice
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2016, 02:34:09 AM »
Leatherman have no one to blame but themselves for the Juice line not being more popular - they haven't made any meaningful changes to the line. They should add tweezers/toothpick/pin/pen to the scales and offer a pocket clip. Also, offer different tool combos, such as the one Yud created. I really like the Juice, it's well built and a very handy size.

The scales on the juice just cover the skeleton of the tool, there isn't any room for any removable parts without making the tool wider.  The Juice Pro however, has a plastic spacer that is used to hold a tweezers.  I think there is room for more of these without widening the tool that could hold a stick pin or a tooth pick, a pen however would be a more ambitious mod, but there is some genius modders around here. I have a few other ideas for some cool juice mods, but I would need someone else to do them or have an endless supply of juices to destroy as I learn how

Trust me in comparison to taking the thing apart a scale mod is easy.  You just have to have the skills to cut the grooves in the scales, the bigger problem is working out what goes where. 

But more to the point there is no reason that LM had to make the scales the way they did.  They could of made them bigger to include scale tools or they could of added them other places.  Also I don't think adding extra width to a juice is all that horrible.
The advantage of the Juice is that it packs a lot of good sized tools in a small package.  Once you get beyond the KF4 size, the advantage of the Juice becomes moot. Might as well get a Rebar once you are going that big.

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Re: My Juice
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2016, 03:18:20 AM »
Leatherman have no one to blame but themselves for the Juice line not being more popular - they haven't made any meaningful changes to the line. They should add tweezers/toothpick/pin/pen to the scales and offer a pocket clip. Also, offer different tool combos, such as the one Yud created. I really like the Juice, it's well built and a very handy size.

The scales on the juice just cover the skeleton of the tool, there isn't any room for any removable parts without making the tool wider.  The Juice Pro however, has a plastic spacer that is used to hold a tweezers.  I think there is room for more of these without widening the tool that could hold a stick pin or a tooth pick, a pen however would be a more ambitious mod, but there is some genius modders around here. I have a few other ideas for some cool juice mods, but I would need someone else to do them or have an endless supply of juices to destroy as I learn how

Trust me in comparison to taking the thing apart a scale mod is easy.  You just have to have the skills to cut the grooves in the scales, the bigger problem is working out what goes where. 

But more to the point there is no reason that LM had to make the scales the way they did.  They could of made them bigger to include scale tools or they could of added them other places.  Also I don't think adding extra width to a juice is all that horrible.
The advantage of the Juice is that it packs a lot of good sized tools in a small package.  Once you get beyond the KF4 size, the advantage of the Juice becomes moot. Might as well get a Rebar once you are going that big.

I am not talking about adding that much thickness, about 1/8" to either side and you come out with the plus tool set.  You might be able to trim that down even farther, with the Wenger tools.  Now that does put a kf4 at about 3/4"  which is not huge.

Also there is a fair amount of space in juices for the half length tools, enough for a cross cut style toothpick. 



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Re: My Juice
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2016, 04:16:00 PM »
I suspect it is because the Juice line is leathermans least popular line if tools, because they are trying to compete with the same niche that SAKs already dominate. Plus, I know of only one store in the area (5th largest metropolitan area in the USA) that has any Juices (and they only have two in stock), so availability is probably an issue as well.

Leatherman have no one to blame but themselves for the Juice line not being more popular - they haven't made any meaningful changes to the line. They should add tweezers/toothpick/pin/pen to the scales and offer a pocket clip. Also, offer different tool combos, such as the one Yud created. I really like the Juice, it's well built and a very handy size.

Actually, I'm pretty sure the bigger problem with the Juice line is that there are *too many* models. There were originally five models, plus a couple of special editions, each available in two scale color variations: that's *fourteen* SKUs for distributors and retailers to manage. Few stores are gonna take up space in the stockroom / display case for even half of the lineup, so consumer choices are limited.

That said, I do think Leatherman's original line-up was flawed; they had two ultra-minimal models, the S2 and C2; two four-layer models, the CS4 and KF4; and the six-layer XE6, which was so thick it defeated the purpose of a smaller tool.

IMNSHO four layers is the sweet spot, not as bulky as the XE6/Pro, but with room for more functionality than the two-layer models. Yet the two models in that configuration were both poor choices for EDC. The CS4 is schizophrenic; it includes scissors and a corkscrew, typical of "suburban" EDC tools, but also a saw and awl, which are more for outdoor use. Likewise, the KF4 was poorly thought out, with not one but *two* knife blades, and again, a saw.

Yet for some reason Leatherman declined to make a four-layer model with the sort of implements that are expected for a suburban / office EDC tool: *one* knife blade, that awesome diamond-coated file, scissors, bottle/can opener. (And of course the screwdrivers, duh.) It wouldn't have been difficult: take the CS4 and replace the saw with scissors; or take the KF4 and replace the saw or serrated blade with scissors and the opener. Worse, they killed off the KF4, rather than modifying it to be more useful.

We'll never know now, of course, but personally I think a model like that would've sold well. After years of waiting for Leatherman to build it, I got tired of waiting, and made my own.



Maybe somebody at Leatherman will see the light, and make an actual EDC Juice. Maybe…
Hero Member Posts: 913
Re: My Juice
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2016, 11:17:41 PM »
IMNSHO four layers is the sweet spot, not as bulky as the XE6/Pro, but with room for more functionality than the two-layer models. Yet the two models in that configuration were both poor choices for EDC. The CS4 is schizophrenic; it includes scissors and a corkscrew, typical of "suburban" EDC tools, but also a saw and awl, which are more for outdoor use. Likewise, the KF4 was poorly thought out, with not one but *two* knife blades, and again, a saw.

Yet for some reason Leatherman declined to make a four-layer model with the sort of implements that are expected for a suburban / office EDC tool: *one* knife blade, that awesome diamond-coated file, scissors, bottle/can opener. (And of course the screwdrivers, duh.) It wouldn't have been difficult: take the CS4 and replace the saw with scissors; or take the KF4 and replace the saw or serrated blade with scissors and the opener. Worse, they killed off the KF4, rather than modifying it to be more useful.

We'll never know now, of course, but personally I think a model like that would've sold well. After years of waiting for Leatherman to build it, I got tired of waiting, and made my own.



Maybe somebody at Leatherman will see the light, and make an actual EDC Juice. Maybe…

This is a sadly a very common problem that shows up in far to many models (half the market for OPTs seems to do this, cram in tools that don't compliment eachother). Not falling for this trap might be one of the best parts of models like the MUT and Signal (or the Flair for that matter).
Sr. Member Posts: 480 Multi-Talented
Re: My Juice
« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2016, 12:00:45 AM »
This is a sadly a very common problem that shows up in far to many models (half the market for OPTs seems to do this, cram in tools that don't compliment each other).

What's the old saying? "Just because you can doesn't mean you should;)

Not falling for this trap might be one of the best parts of models like the MUT and Signal (or the Flair for that matter).

Heh heh, the Flair gets little respect, but there's no denying it was very well focused on the mission. Likewise the MUT and Signal, they have a specific purpose, and just about everything on them is designed to contribute to that mission.

The danger in such focused tools is, they have a limited, specialized market – perhaps even falling into the dreaded "niche" hole.

After posting that, I decided to email a more through version to Leatherman's marketing folks. I described  the two four-layer models they *should* have released:

• A “CF4” optimized for suburban/indoor/office duty; knife blade, scissors, corkscrew/assist/caplifter, and that amazing diamond-coated file – basically a CS4 with the file in place of the wood saw/awl. Bonus points if it also had the lexan insert and Style tweezers from the Juice Pro! (Basically what I did, minus the foil cutter blade.)

• A “WS4” optimized for outdoor/backyard/hiking/camping roles; one knife blade, wood saw/awl, file, scissors/can opener – basically the KF4 with the scissors/can opener in place of the extra knife blade.

I dunno about you, but I would've bought one of each of those. And probably some spares, too.

(I forgot to mention that they really, *really* need belt pouches for the Juice that don't utterly and thoroughly suck. They've only had, what, *fifteen years* to come up with a better one, right?)
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Re: My Juice
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2017, 02:34:32 AM »
One more entry in the saga of my Juice, bocote scales.

It only took me 9 months to finish them :facepalm:
« Last Edit: March 15, 2017, 02:35:33 AM by yud »



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Re: My Juice
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2017, 02:49:07 AM »
One more entry in the saga of my Juice, bocote scales.

It only took me 9 months to finish them :facepalm:

Yeah but you made them yourself and the Juice is one of a kind and looks fabulous :o :like: :like:


 

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