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Lets talk iconic knives. 2136

Global Moderator Zombie Apprentice Posts: 16,823
Re: Lets talk iconic knives.
« Reply #180 on: January 15, 2019, 07:29:44 PM »
Kitchen knives,  :hatsoff: yes of course.  The Western style "chefs" knife is certainly well know style.  The Chinese chefs knife ( cleaver to most ).  The Japanese Santoku. 

Esse Quam Videri
No Life Club Posts: 1,196
Re: Lets talk iconic knives.
« Reply #181 on: January 15, 2019, 11:34:47 PM »
After reading through, here are some thoughts on what I think are the boundaries of the "iconic knife" description.
Not getting into what makes it actually iconic (impactful, revolutionary, historic etc). Also, any specific brand/model combination can be argued to be an iconic knife... I'm just talking here about theoretical edge-cases and which conditions could allow one to be submitted in a "iconic knives" list.

An iconic knife cannot be a brand. Unless that knife is the only one made by this brand. (exception 1)

In terms of military knives, a specific instance or a succession of "XYZ official knife" instances could be "an iconic knife". (exception 2)

In terms of civilian knives, a specific widespread design could be "an iconic knife".(3)

The Opinel, for example, had for the longest time only one model in multiple sizes. That historical Opinel (forgetting the new models and variations) either in the specific most common size or as a design (regardless of its size) could fit exception 1 and/or 3. "Historical Opinel" or "Historical Opinel design", for example, seem like potentially valid list entries.

I don't feel like SAKs can be defined as "an iconic knife" as a group. Each model/design would need to be argued individually; I can see the Spartan, Classic, SwissChamp or maybe Huntsman as possibly making the cut but probably not a climber or farmer.
On the other hand, the true SAK (official knives of the Swiss Army) could fit exception 2 although a case could be made for individual instances either under 2 or under 3.

USMC knife(/knives) fits 2 and/or 3.

A "function" design (one concept/function, many makers, many shape/size variations) such as the chinese cleaver or the Chef's knife, fileting knife, oister knife or even steak knife (which household doesn't have one of those?), could fit in description 3 but the case for it being "iconic" would need to be very strong.

The "still in production" criterion seems like a pretext of the original article to advertise knives that can be sold. I'd argue that most iconic knives probably can't still be purchased in all their original materials (steel, scales, rivets etc..).

"iconic brands" should be another conversation unless it matches description 1.

Swords... I don't know... If we go down that path it may just turn out as a list of major swords and sabers designs that could be found on a historical replicas website. An exception could be a sword so iconic that some of its specific design features was later passed down to knives?

As for what constitutes an iconic knife, while not wanting to go encyclopedic I still think there should be some objective evidence; either documented reference or general/regional concensus.

Just my 2 cents disagree at will!
« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 11:41:50 PM by Syem »
No Life Club Posts: 4,093 Geometry cuts but the steel determines how long.
Re: Lets talk iconic knives.
« Reply #182 on: January 16, 2019, 02:41:48 PM »
After reading through, here are some thoughts on what I think are the boundaries of the "iconic knife" description.
Not getting into what makes it actually iconic (impactful, revolutionary, historic etc). Also, any specific brand/model combination can be argued to be an iconic knife... I'm just talking here about theoretical edge-cases and which conditions could allow one to be submitted in a "iconic knives" list.

An iconic knife cannot be a brand. Unless that knife is the only one made by this brand. (exception 1)

In terms of military knives, a specific instance or a succession of "XYZ official knife" instances could be "an iconic knife". (exception 2)

In terms of civilian knives, a specific widespread design could be "an iconic knife".(3)

The Opinel, for example, had for the longest time only one model in multiple sizes. That historical Opinel (forgetting the new models and variations) either in the specific most common size or as a design (regardless of its size) could fit exception 1 and/or 3. "Historical Opinel" or "Historical Opinel design", for example, seem like potentially valid list entries.

I don't feel like SAKs can be defined as "an iconic knife" as a group. Each model/design would need to be argued individually; I can see the Spartan, Classic, SwissChamp or maybe Huntsman as possibly making the cut but probably not a climber or farmer.
On the other hand, the true SAK (official knives of the Swiss Army) could fit exception 2 although a case could be made for individual instances either under 2 or under 3.

USMC knife(/knives) fits 2 and/or 3.

A "function" design (one concept/function, many makers, many shape/size variations) such as the chinese cleaver or the Chef's knife, fileting knife, oister knife or even steak knife (which household doesn't have one of those?), could fit in description 3 but the case for it being "iconic" would need to be very strong.

The "still in production" criterion seems like a pretext of the original article to advertise knives that can be sold. I'd argue that most iconic knives probably can't still be purchased in all their original materials (steel, scales, rivets etc..).

"iconic brands" should be another conversation unless it matches description 1.

Swords... I don't know... If we go down that path it may just turn out as a list of major swords and sabers designs that could be found on a historical replicas website. An exception could be a sword so iconic that some of its specific design features was later passed down to knives?

As for what constitutes an iconic knife, while not wanting to go encyclopedic I still think there should be some objective evidence; either documented reference or general/regional concensus.

Just my 2 cents disagree at will!

Just my 2 cents but I have to agree.
You can make a list of iconic knives but you can not add iconic companies to that list. Iconic knives and iconic companies are not the same thing.
I'll split the list as an example.

Knife list
Buck 110
               
Opinel.  * Not model specific.  Even tho there are several sizes available The Opinel knife with over a hundred year history is simply Opinel, company, model, inverter/maker.
   
Laguiole.  *  Style.  Sometimes a knife becomes its own thing.  While the history suggests influences this style knife is its own thing. 

Sodbuster.  * Not brand specific.  This one is tricky.  The name is a trademark of Case.  The pattern is much older than the trademark.  To which wonderful country do we thank for this terrific pattern? 
 
Bowie knife.  * Style specific.  What we know as the knife Jim Bowie carried. 
 
Balisong/butterfly knife.  *  I'm not even going to touch on its origins.  Most Americans know it as the "butterfly knife".
   
USMC KaBar fighting knife/1219C2 Combat Knife/USMC Mark 2/U.S. Navy utility knife, Mark 2.  *  This knife seems to be offically called a few things.  The knife design being 70 plus years old probably best known as a USMC knife. 

Stiletto/Switchblade.    *  Any knife that seems to be banned across a wide range of countries gets my vote.  Is this the most banned knife?  Italian Stiletto Switchblade is what some call it while others including myself just refer to it as Switchblade.  Its the knife that many relate to 50s in the US as seen in movies and subsequently banned shortly thereabouts.       

Barlow.  *  Style/Pattern.  Good luck nailing down the origins.   Obadiah Barlow of Sheffield, England, around 1670 seems to be widely regarded as its origins.  Luke Furnace of Stannington is another name that'll pop up in most searches.  The John Russell Company is an American company that is likely responsible for mass producing this terrific pattern en mass in the US.     

Rambo knife.   * I am no longer sure this makes the cut ( no pun intended ).

Khukuri.  *  Whatever the inspiration, whatever the origins, this knife is emblematic of the Gurkhas and Nepalese culture.  Any blade that is so highly revered has got to make this list. 

Boy Scout knife, 4 blade. The original style and still in the boy scout catalog.

Company list, this is only an example you would have to add a lot more companies to make the list complete.

Puukko.  * While all Puukko are knives, not all knives are Puukkos.  I really like this.  I see this phrasing pop up often. There is a description of what a Puukko traditionally is however I would defer to our Finnish members on that.  I will say there is a Puukko for almost every task, woodwork, hunting, fishing, chopping, vegetables. and more.

Spyderco  * Not model specific.   This Brand has done what all great brand have, become known for its style and features.  The hole in the blade, the blade shape, pocket clip, Spyder logo, all have come to be known as a Spyderco knife.  They have a wide range of knives from pocket knives to fixed blades.  They work with a wide range of knife makers and in house designers.  They are made in many places around the world.  The features of this brand are what are easily recognizable.

Mora.  *  Not model specific.  Like many great knife companies this one is 125 young and counting.  The Morakniv is recognized and known in its many iterations.  Classic, Companion, and the newer models. 

Swiss Army Knife.  * Not model specific. Victorinox and for many Wenger both have become synonymous with the little red knife.
No Life Club Posts: 1,987
Re: Lets talk iconic knives.
« Reply #183 on: January 16, 2019, 03:43:46 PM »
The Puukko is a style of knife, not a company.
And Mora is both a knife style and a company.

Sent fra min FRD-L09 via Tapatalk

Global Moderator Zombie Apprentice Posts: 16,823
Re: Lets talk iconic knives.
« Reply #184 on: January 16, 2019, 04:48:50 PM »
Some good thinking and some great thoughts.   

Esse Quam Videri
Global Moderator Zombie Apprentice Posts: 16,823
Re: Lets talk iconic knives.
« Reply #185 on: January 16, 2019, 04:50:43 PM »
After reading through, here are some thoughts on what I think are the boundaries of the "iconic knife" description.
Not getting into what makes it actually iconic (impactful, revolutionary, historic etc). Also, any specific brand/model combination can be argued to be an iconic knife... I'm just talking here about theoretical edge-cases and which conditions could allow one to be submitted in a "iconic knives" list.

An iconic knife cannot be a brand. Unless that knife is the only one made by this brand. (exception 1)

In terms of military knives, a specific instance or a succession of "XYZ official knife" instances could be "an iconic knife". (exception 2)

In terms of civilian knives, a specific widespread design could be "an iconic knife".(3)

The Opinel, for example, had for the longest time only one model in multiple sizes. That historical Opinel (forgetting the new models and variations) either in the specific most common size or as a design (regardless of its size) could fit exception 1 and/or 3. "Historical Opinel" or "Historical Opinel design", for example, seem like potentially valid list entries.

I don't feel like SAKs can be defined as "an iconic knife" as a group. Each model/design would need to be argued individually; I can see the Spartan, Classic, SwissChamp or maybe Huntsman as possibly making the cut but probably not a climber or farmer.
On the other hand, the true SAK (official knives of the Swiss Army) could fit exception 2 although a case could be made for individual instances either under 2 or under 3.

USMC knife(/knives) fits 2 and/or 3.

A "function" design (one concept/function, many makers, many shape/size variations) such as the chinese cleaver or the Chef's knife, fileting knife, oister knife or even steak knife (which household doesn't have one of those?), could fit in description 3 but the case for it being "iconic" would need to be very strong.

The "still in production" criterion seems like a pretext of the original article to advertise knives that can be sold. I'd argue that most iconic knives probably can't still be purchased in all their original materials (steel, scales, rivets etc..).

"iconic brands" should be another conversation unless it matches description 1.

Swords... I don't know... If we go down that path it may just turn out as a list of major swords and sabers designs that could be found on a historical replicas website. An exception could be a sword so iconic that some of its specific design features was later passed down to knives?

As for what constitutes an iconic knife, while not wanting to go encyclopedic I still think there should be some objective evidence; either documented reference or general/regional concensus.

Just my 2 cents disagree at will!

Thank you.  I am liking where you are going with this. 

Esse Quam Videri
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,863 Oxygen and magnesium toghether?! OMg!
Re: Lets talk iconic knives.
« Reply #186 on: January 17, 2019, 04:13:22 PM »
Another iconic knife/model: the french Douk-Douk.


________________________________
It is just a matter of time before they add the word “Syndrome” after my last name.

I don't have OCD, I have OCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ.

Eff the ineffable, scrut the inscrutable.

IYCRTYSWTMTFOT

Zombie Apprentice Posts: 10,111

Nix us

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Re: Lets talk iconic knives.
« Reply #187 on: January 17, 2019, 04:48:03 PM »
I'm inclined to second Santos' Douk-Douk nomination, but I don't know how well known that knife is outside of the Mediterranean.

For me, the Douk-Douk is an iconic knife. It represents a lot of history and has cultural significance. But even many knife people may have a hard time describing a Douk-Douk or its origins.
Global Moderator Zombie Apprentice Posts: 16,823
Re: Lets talk iconic knives.
« Reply #188 on: January 17, 2019, 04:53:45 PM »
Mercator K55K and Higonokami also come to mind. 

I dont know what I started here but it has really got me looking into knive more than I've ever done.  My poor dog had to hear my ramblings the other day as he was the only one who didn't start to walk away when I began.   Today however he seems completely uninterested.   

Esse Quam Videri
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,863 Oxygen and magnesium toghether?! OMg!
Re: Lets talk iconic knives.
« Reply #189 on: January 17, 2019, 05:23:43 PM »
I'm inclined to second Santos' Douk-Douk nomination, but I don't know how well known that knife is outside of the Mediterranean.

For me, the Douk-Douk is an iconic knife. It represents a lot of history and has cultural significance. But even many knife people may have a hard time describing a Douk-Douk or its origins.

It has a very rich and long history. Chack this out:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douk-Douk

________________________________
It is just a matter of time before they add the word “Syndrome” after my last name.

I don't have OCD, I have OCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ.

Eff the ineffable, scrut the inscrutable.

IYCRTYSWTMTFOT

Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,863 Oxygen and magnesium toghether?! OMg!
Re: Lets talk iconic knives.
« Reply #190 on: January 17, 2019, 05:26:02 PM »
The former Wikipedia article reminded me of the Okapi knife. Originally from South Africa, the ratchet-like lock is very unique and recognizable.


________________________________
It is just a matter of time before they add the word “Syndrome” after my last name.

I don't have OCD, I have OCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ.

Eff the ineffable, scrut the inscrutable.

IYCRTYSWTMTFOT

Global Moderator Zombie Apprentice Posts: 16,823
Re: Lets talk iconic knives.
« Reply #191 on: January 17, 2019, 05:40:18 PM »
The former Wikipedia article reminded me of the Okapi knife. Originally from South Africa, the ratchet-like lock is very unique and recognizable.

(Image removed from quote.)

The Spanish Navaja and even Laguiole, I'd also suggest the Texas Toothpick looks to be "similar".  What neat is the Yatagan or Yataghan blade similarity.  Dont have a clue if this influenced any or just possibly the Laguiole.   

While history always wants to connect things sometimes it just not that easy.  Parallel development does occur like the Falcata and Kopi as many experts have asserted.   Humans need for cutting tools and weapons could have easily developed "like" tools and weapons.

Its a neat knife thats for certain.     

Esse Quam Videri
No Life Club Posts: 4,093 Geometry cuts but the steel determines how long.
Re: Lets talk iconic knives.
« Reply #192 on: January 17, 2019, 07:08:04 PM »
The Douk-Douk, Mercator K55K and the Okapi knife were icons in their region before the internet made them more recognizable to knife knuts world wide.
I would vote for them as icons.

Global Moderator He Who Has The Most Nuts, Wins! Posts: 50,194
Re: Lets talk iconic knives.
« Reply #193 on: January 18, 2019, 03:52:41 AM »
What a discussion :o I had to play catch up here but I am glad I did :like: Lot of great thoughts in here peeps :salute: I have collected knives my whole life pretty much and I am back and forth in my mind what is iconic ??? So many points to support both sides of many of these knives that I am having a hard time figuring all this out for myself now :ahhh

As a kid growing up in the 80s and in a knife collecting area and family. I knew of Swiss Army Knives but not the Vic or Wenger brand, I even had a Red Champion like one, I had a Rambo knife and cherished it as a young boy :like: I went out in the woods and played Rambo some even :D I also had many different traditionals plus a few not so traditionals ;) I had not heard of Opinel nor Spyderco then and only caught up with those brands and a few more like Mora, when I first came here :cheers: I had heard of the Douk Douk, I had a kukhuri, I had heard of Laguiole, of course I knew of Case and had a few of their knives as well  :cheers: German brands of knives were widespread in this are and very common such as Boker, German Eye, Hen and Rooster and several other brands as well :salute: I knew about Buck knives and even though I didn't own a Buck growing up I had several similar lockbacks reminiscent of the 110 and knew of Barlows and Sodbusters :cheers:

Sorry to ramble but I was just typing as I was thinking of things :D

Just look over this post if you get bored of my rambling :rofl: but I did want to add something to this great topic :cheers:
« Last Edit: January 18, 2019, 03:54:01 AM by Poncho65 »
Hero Member Posts: 999
Re: Lets talk iconic knives.
« Reply #194 on: January 18, 2019, 06:40:09 AM »
The K55K

Andrew
Global Moderator Zombie Apprentice Posts: 16,823
Re: Lets talk iconic knives.
« Reply #195 on: January 18, 2019, 07:12:16 AM »
Thanks Poncho for your post.  Its been a neat journey even if the list has not quite been made.  I am really enjoying the discussion. 

Esse Quam Videri
No Life Club Posts: 1,395 woes oke
Re: Lets talk iconic knives.
« Reply #196 on: January 18, 2019, 07:36:15 PM »
The former Wikipedia article reminded me of the Okapi knife. Originally from South Africa, the ratchet-like lock is very unique and recognizable.


Originally from Germany but made famous and then taken over by South Africa.
Hard working peoples knives.
 
Also got a reputation in the Caribbean.
Global Moderator Zombie Apprentice Posts: 16,823
Re: Lets talk iconic knives.
« Reply #197 on: February 08, 2019, 04:10:43 PM »
I haven't abandoned this thread  :salute:.  I've been pondering the knives and wonderful contributions made to this thread.  I'm gonna have a go at a list and we'll see what happens.  Thank you for all the comments and suggestions. 

 

Esse Quam Videri
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 14,324 Firm believer of Sturgeon's Law
Re: Lets talk iconic knives.
« Reply #198 on: February 08, 2019, 09:31:50 PM »
I haven't abandoned this thread  :salute:.  I've been pondering the knives and wonderful contributions made to this thread.  I'm gonna have a go at a list and we'll see what happens.  Thank you for all the comments and suggestions. 

 


My toys:

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SAKs: Bantam, Executive, Ambassador, Minichamp, Classic Alox, Champion, Farmer, Explorer, Swisschamp, Golf Tool, Wenger Champ, EVO 52, Pocket Tool Chest
Newbie Posts: 28
Re: Lets talk iconic knives.
« Reply #199 on: February 08, 2019, 10:59:25 PM »
Big fan of the Buck 110, Douk Douk, Mercator k55k, and opinel.

The Mercator was with me today.

Anka

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Zombie Apprentice Posts: 10,111

Nix us

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Re: Lets talk iconic knives.
« Reply #200 on: February 08, 2019, 11:36:11 PM »
 :like:
Hero Member Posts: 999
Re: Lets talk iconic knives.
« Reply #201 on: February 09, 2019, 02:52:24 AM »

Andrew

 

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