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Are Cheap and Cheerful part of the process? 792

Global Moderator Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,750
Are Cheap and Cheerful part of the process?
« on: May 02, 2019, 03:17:21 PM »
Over the years I have bought some cheap tools.  I think a lot of you have too.  Why?  Many of us read reviews and do rather extensive research.  Lots of us get quaified suggestions for tools.  We spend a certain amount for a knock off or clone or something similar rather than getting the more quality made tool.  Over time it seems, at least in some cases, the money spent on the cheap stuff adds up to almost the price or close to the quality item. 

Yeah yeah yeah,  many of us have gotten by for a 1/3 the price.  Many of us have made due or even better.  Am I to believe that cheap and cheerful is just part of the process?   

Esse Quam Videri
Global Moderator Point Of No Return Posts: 37,182
Re: Are Cheap and Cheerful part of the process?
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2019, 03:25:14 PM »
If we're talking multitools then for me no. My first was a LM PST and at the time they were the only ones around. It served me well for twenty years before I bought a Rebar.  If tools in general I do own a few cheap power tools. These are ones that I only use once in a while and didn't warrant the money on higher quality. Hand tools I've always tried to by the best I could afford because I learned at a young age cheap tools just didn't perform well or last.
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 5,630 aka "G-Fiddle" and "Glen-Fizzle"
Re: Are Cheap and Cheerful part of the process?
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2019, 04:03:01 PM »
I have bought my share of cheap stuff in the past, but that is a long time ago. I wasted enough time, energy and money on tools or electronics that were not up for the task, failed on me or were otherwise such a compromise that they were just bad at everything and good at nothing. I can honestly say that already in my young adulthood I had developed a deep, whole-hearted hate for bad quality. You usually get what you pay for. There are exceptions where things are both cheap and of decent quality, and there are also plenty of cases where spending a lot of money still provides you with a cr@ppy product.

When I buy something I do my research first. Not only on the price and quality, but also on features, comfort, thinking about what else I can use it for in the future other than what I'm looking to buy it for now, etc.

I can spend a seemingly ridiculous amount of time in researching even the most simple tools like drill bits. But for me it's worth it, because I like good quality and hate bad quality.

All this research is of course not always a guarantee I get what I want. A while back I needed some new wood drills in specific sizes, did my research and ordered a couple of Bosch drills and a couple of Alpen drills (this was because not every size was available in Bosch, to be honest, Bosch was my first pick). I tried them all out, and as it turned out the Alpen ones were perfect, the centerpoint was in the center, and they were sharp. The Bosch ones were however disappointing. They were by far not as sharp as the Alpen ones, and the centerpoint of three out of five Bosch drills were not 100% in the center. Yes, they drilled, but they generated much more heat and the holes were a small fraction bigger than they should be. I got so mad I sent all Bosch drills back to Amazon, just shoved them in the carton with the sawdust still on them, and ordered Alpen ones instead. So no more Bosch wood drill bits for me, lesson learned  ::)

Mechanickal told me so :facepalm:

[--- arms length ---] (-.-) 

                                ^-- where the cat sits
No Life Club Posts: 1,815
Re: Are Cheap and Cheerful part of the process?
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2019, 04:39:23 PM »
Buying C & C stuffs are definitely part of the process. Cos deep down we are all cheap.  :facepalm: occasionally, we do have surprises but most of the time, we know they are probably want they are worth. I have a bad habit of buying cheap alternative to good brand items but end up paying more for multiple cheap ones that doesn't work most of the time and then eventually still buy the good brand...

Most recent purchase is the Vic nail clip 580. I bought 3 rubbish alternative before buying the original.... And this cycle happens many times..
Global Moderator He Who Has The Most Nuts, Wins! Posts: 53,606
Re: Are Cheap and Cheerful part of the process?
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2019, 04:44:49 PM »
I am cheap :whistle: but besides the cheap quality knives I bought as a kid, I haven't really bought cheap tools :think: my dad always taught me you get what you pay for maybe :shrug: I try to get deals on quality tools though :like: I have bought a few cheaper keychain tools though but never full sized ones ??? Unless I am forgetting though and which cause someone will come along and call me out on it  :rofl:
No Life Club Posts: 2,983
Re: Are Cheap and Cheerful part of the process?
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2019, 06:34:46 PM »
I only recall one time ever buying a cheap and cheerful tool on purpose.  It was a Chinese Supertool copy that came with a huge assortment of driver bits and I really wanted the bits in the nice storage pouch more than I wanted the tool and have since got rid of the tool.  I have resorted to buying a cheap and cheerful tool on a couple of occasions, when that was all that was available.   This happened when I was on a road trip and already 100 miles from home and realized I'd forgotten my knife or multitool.  I had to buy the truck stop special or go without.  They were thrown in a drawer and forgotten as soon as I got home.  One was so bad I threw it away lest I risk forgetting how bad it was and accidentally try to use it again.  A few more were giveaways, such as the PST copies that came from U.S. Smokeless Tobacco Company.  Those actually turned out to be excellent tools to my pleasant surprise and I carry 1 occasionally.  I learned through experience though that I'm better off in most cases buying a used brand name tool than a brand new knockoff.  :cheers:
No Life Club Posts: 2,059 Douglas's papa
Re: Are Cheap and Cheerful part of the process?
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2019, 07:24:22 PM »
If it was or even is a one job use then yes I still buy cheap. With that said, if it is going to be a tool that gets even somewhat regular, like once every 2. or 3 years then I get the best I can find. Never buy cheap tools to earn a living with. They will cost you much much more in the end. :hatsoff:

Shoot low sheriff, they're riddin' shetlands
SAKMC unit number BR549
137% Redneck
I would like to apologise to anyone I have not offended. Please be patient, I will get to you shortly.
Just a small personal observation.  ...........I would not be at all surprised that when God created the Earth & the heavens, that the SwissChamp was the tool he used. .............. :hatsoff:
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 16,783 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: Are Cheap and Cheerful part of the process?
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2019, 07:41:39 PM »
Sometimes cheap can be good. Rough Rider knives are a good example of that. Even if you're not entirely satisfied with them, you can try out something cheap before you commit to something more pricey.

I did that with a Crunch clone. I knew it wouldn't match up to the original, but wanted to try the concept first. I didn't connect with it. Even when I got chance to handle and play with a genuine Crunch, I still had the same disconnect. I also have a Bear clone (currently in pieces) which to be honest wasn't really any more "agricultural" in build, or any less rugged, than one of the originals - save for the Philips, which is abysmal.  Some of my dedicated tools are cheap crap too. I just never used them often enough or hard enough, to break them and have to replace them.



The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad
Hero Member Posts: 832
Re: Are Cheap and Cheerful part of the process?
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2019, 11:06:39 PM »
I started out as a teenager buying cheap tools. Replaced them as I could afford with better ones (mostly Craftsman).  When I left home I left most of those cheap ones at my parent's, I think a brother has some of them now.  I have collected some cheap ones to use as loaners, beaters, or to stow in the trunk of a car for emergencies.  Haven't needed to buy any tools in a number of years (61 and retired now) but I agree with earlier comments that unless it's a one time use, buy good tools (and sometimes even for those one time uses).

- Steve
Jr. Member Posts: 91 Just a dude with an appreciation for titanium.
Re: Are Cheap and Cheerful part of the process?
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2019, 01:51:22 AM »
My old man started me off pretty well when it came to pocket knives (Vic Camper was my first knife, for Boy Scouts), my first multitool was a Gerber MPT (which I still like better than the LM PST) and he bought me my first tool set, made by Crescent, when we started working on the family cars when I was a teenager.

From there I have a mix of Harbor Freight cheapo tools that I have gradually replaced with Wera or Wiha on the items I have either broken or found good deals on.

As much as people look down on Harbor Freight they are a great deal for tools that you may only use once or twice or want to try out a new hobby without selling a kidney.

-Wes.

Work EDC: Vic 8GB Jetsetter/Swisscard/Olight I1R EOS/Gerber Mullet

Weekend EDC: Vic Voyageur or Compact or Pioneer X/LM P4/Fenix E01/Swisscard/Atwood R25

Neatest items in collection: Full Wenger Titanium Series, Vic Voyaguer, 84mm Golfer with Long Nailfile, Several Atwoods.

These days I focus on 84mm with Scissors, odd Wenger Knives, and bladeless versions of SAKs so I can carry them at work.
No Life Club Posts: 2,405
Re: Are Cheap and Cheerful part of the process?
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2019, 01:52:33 AM »
My first MT was a LM PST II and my first SAK was a Vic Explorer and I havent bought a knock off or clone or generally cheap MT, but I have some dedicated tools that are on the cheaper part of the scale and I got lucky as they turned out to be quite good

Sent fra min FRD-L09 via Tapatalk

Global Moderator Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,750
Re: Are Cheap and Cheerful part of the process?
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2019, 05:50:19 AM »
Getting a CnC for project or to get by seems like a good way to go.  Its interesting how one can get by and for how long with a cheap version.  I've not wanted to pay up in some cases and got the cheaper tool.  One use is fine and yes sometimes we get surprised by how long and well the tool performs.  I've bought cheap garden tools only to have to rebuy.  I end up spending full price for the more quality one plus the expense of the initially purchased cheap one so now I've spent much more than anticipated.  This is what I avoid best I can now. 

Warranty is part of my deciding factor too.     

Esse Quam Videri
No Life Club Posts: 1,684
Re: Are Cheap and Cheerful part of the process?
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2019, 06:26:36 AM »
You can't get that much more cheap and cheerful than a SAK and weirdly, it's hard to find consistency, quality and QC to match them. I learned decades ago not to buy cheap but go straight to the 'quality' level as it saves time, money and frustration to do so but Victorinox is an anomaly. I've paid so much more for pocket knives and have been consistently disappointed, I've had to go to the cheaper, practically the cheapest end of the market just to find quality.

"It is better to lose health like a spendthrift than to waste it like a miser." - Robert Louis Stevenson
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 8,832 Man of Multiple MultiTool Manufacturers
Re: Are Cheap and Cheerful part of the process?
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2019, 06:57:31 AM »
I'm a shameless, washed up smurf. Even with a couple of hundred brand-name, quality tools; I buy C&C sometimes, because I like the way they look or appreciate the design and engineering. Don't buy nearly as many as I used to, but I have never turned my nose up at cheap tools.  :rofl:

Some of my favorite C&C are Roxon, Ganzo, WorkPro, and Sheffield. :multi:

Pontificating particularly pious positions pertaining to polymorphic paraphernalia. G-Man.
Thread Killer 2017 Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 5,712 Born to multitask.
Re: Are Cheap and Cheerful part of the process?
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2019, 07:36:05 AM »
Just to clarify, I have never bought a SAK clone/knock off, because I know they'll be smurf, and because actual Victorinox SAKs are already pretty inexpensive, even used ones are very decent condition most of the time.

I have bought my fair share of CnC multi-tools, for a variety of reasons.

First one I got was a cheap Suspension clone. $12 AUS, because I wanted the bit kit for my Rebar. The adapter fit perfectly, and I also got a cheap beater/loaner if I ever needed one. Plus the file on it is great, and most implements are ok.
I bought the Ganzo G302B because it also had the bit kit, and because every single review I had seen of it was people who had gotten it for free. I wanted to see for myself, and also review it for mto.

I got the Coast MT because I saw a review on it, and they said it was ok. It was not. That was my first lesson. :facepalm:

I got the Bessey shears multi-tool, because it was cheap, and it had massive shears.

Outu, NexTool Flagship, Roxon Storm, Roxon KS, they were a natural progression of the massive scissors, and they were all quite inexpensive to get. The Outu was cheap, and it worked. The Flagship had some interesting changes to the design, so I got it. It was much better. Then I saw the Storm, taking the massive scissors with a different approach, and decided to get it and review it. It was great quality, so I also got the KS and BBQ tool.

I also have a few small off-brand ones, because they were sold together with some small Gerber, Bear & Son, and SOG multi-tools.

So, based on my CnC collection, I'd say that they can be a part of the process if you choose to.

Maybe you want an accessory from one, maybe they have features that the four big names do not offer as of yet.
Maybe a CnC is all you need to get by, until the toolbox comes in. Or you got one because you did know any better, but its poor quality illustrated the reason people buy LM, Gerber, Victorinox etc.
Full Member Posts: 108
Re: Are Cheap and Cheerful part of the process?
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2019, 02:28:13 PM »
I didn't mind cheap and cheerful until the day a spanner broke in my hand while undoing a bolt and I hit my knuckles against the engine block.
No Life Club Posts: 3,149
Re: Are Cheap and Cheerful part of the process?
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2019, 01:51:59 AM »
If it was or even is a one job use OR A CAK then yes I still buy cheap. With that said, if it is going to be a tool that gets even somewhat regular, like once every 2. or 3 years then I get the best I can find. Never buy cheap tools to earn a living with. They will cost you much much more in the end. :hatsoff:

 :whistle:

"LOGIC!  My God, the man's talking about logic!  We're talking about Universal Armageddon!"
Dr.  McCoy
No Life Club Posts: 1,168
Re: Are Cheap and Cheerful part of the process?
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2019, 02:02:44 AM »
I am rarely Cheerful if I try Cheap,just the way it works for me.

The SAK though as was already mentioned are pretty Cheap for what you get and are never crappy if they are real!

I have a tough time thinking of another example like though anywhere?
Global Moderator Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,750
Re: Are Cheap and Cheerful part of the process?
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2019, 04:07:43 PM »
Great example pomsbz  :hatsoff:.  The SAK is affordable enough to not need to buy a knock off.  My mind goes to Tinker.  I'd like to think this model is priced fair everywhere. 

Esse Quam Videri
Full Member Posts: 110
Re: Are Cheap and Cheerful part of the process?
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2019, 01:53:28 AM »
If you are able to buy cheap and have it work out then, it definitely is something to be cheerful about, but that is not my experience with most things.

Too often buying low quality items because they cost less, result in frustration because they fail when you most need them and sooner, until you eventually spend the money to buy the better quality item.  This then ends up in you being less happy than you would have been over the better quality item, because you realize the money and aggravation that buying quality in the first place could have saved you.
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 8,832 Man of Multiple MultiTool Manufacturers
Re: Are Cheap and Cheerful part of the process?
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2019, 09:52:15 AM »
 :iagree: Great point and always good advice for non-collectors.

I have rarely used my C&C tools, because of the access to good multitools(LM, Vic, Gerber, SOG, etc). I did carry the DeWalt MT16 for the 7-day off-brand challenge. Worked fine for light/moderate use, but I wouldn't crank on it like a Surge/Wave/SwissTool/MP600/PowerLock/etc. Carried the Taylor brands produced ToughTool for more than a week once as well. Since then, I have learned through experience, the OG ToughTools ARE good tools, unlike the Taylor made ones.

As far as user tools go, there are exceptions. If someone doesn't have a job/activity that would require a heavy-duty, highly-reliable tool. Then a lot of C&Cs come into play.  If someone needs a pretty good tool, but has issues with the tools walking off, there are some decent tools that are still, relative to the big brands, very affordable. Ganzo, Roxon, and WorkPro(and a few others) come to mind. However, that said, those brands start knocking on the door of big-brand entry-level tools. It is a tough choice sometimes, but one reason why I buy so many C&C tools, is so I might help potential buyers get a better idea of what the tool can and cannot do. Then compound the fact that several members here on MT.o do the same thing, so the pool of examples to judge gets substantial enough to make relatively informed decisions. Hypothetically anyway. :ahhh

Pontificating particularly pious positions pertaining to polymorphic paraphernalia. G-Man.
No Life Club Posts: 2,623
Re: Are Cheap and Cheerful part of the process?
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2019, 01:49:59 PM »
You can't get that much more cheap and cheerful than a SAK and weirdly, it's hard to find consistency, quality and QC to match them. I learned decades ago not to buy cheap but go straight to the 'quality' level as it saves time, money and frustration to do so but Victorinox is an anomaly. I've paid so much more for pocket knives and have been consistently disappointed, I've had to go to the cheaper, practically the cheapest end of the market just to find quality.

Like Aloha, can't agree more with Pomsbz.  It indeed is rare to find the same consistency of QC/quality/variety/cheerfulness as SAK, considering it is not expensive in the multiverse of knives and tools.

Instead of clones or inferior products, I think globalization/internet/crowd funding has given us more choices to find real 'cheap and cheerful' in recent years, especially in folding knife industry.
Global Moderator Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,750
Re: Are Cheap and Cheerful part of the process?
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2019, 03:42:44 PM »
Hi Comis, great seeing you.   :waving:.  I think Kershaw for example is a good one for quality cheap affordable knives.  Cheap for me most times is in reference to price and not always quality, sometimes its both. 

Esse Quam Videri
No Life Club Posts: 2,623
Re: Are Cheap and Cheerful part of the process?
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2019, 06:00:27 PM »
Hi Comis, great seeing you.   :waving:.  I think Kershaw for example is a good one for quality cheap affordable knives.  Cheap for me most times is in reference to price and not always quality, sometimes its both.

Great to see you too!  :cheers:

You definitely are reading my mind--some bigger brands like Kershaw and CRKT had been bringing out functional knives with cool designs, and the more affordable prices had really given many a chance to try out what used to be custom designs without breaking the bank.  :tu:
No Life Club Posts: 1,196 Ride the Music
Re: Are Cheap and Cheerful part of the process?
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2019, 11:43:19 PM »
Not so cheerful when the cheeeep tool gets "the bends" the first time I actually try to use it.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


R
Global Moderator Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,750
Re: Are Cheap and Cheerful part of the process?
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2019, 06:38:46 AM »
This doesn't sound good at all. 

Esse Quam Videri
Sr. Member Posts: 369
Re: Are Cheap and Cheerful part of the process?
« Reply #26 on: May 09, 2019, 10:48:47 AM »
  It is an ongoing process for me. I also like to read reviews on products before I buy them, regardless of how much they cost. However, I collect these things, so I do not use about 90% of the multitools I buy. I mainly look for ones that are unique and prefer to not buy clones or knockoffs. Most of the ones I do use are good ones. I have a Wave and a Surge I keep on me sometimes (Not at the same time!), and have been carrying a new off brand tool lately made by DPMAO that I really like. This seems to be a really solid tool. I also have some C&C ones made by CRKT and Klein that cost me $40.00 and $20.00 respectively that even though I have not used them, I can tell are of really good quality. I would love a new Leatherman P4, but I am not rich and cannot always afford to spend $140.00 on a tool. To be honest, I use multitools for really lightweight purposes, and even the cheap ones I have used have held up. Your mileage may vary!   
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 8,832 Man of Multiple MultiTool Manufacturers
Re: Are Cheap and Cheerful part of the process?
« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2019, 02:33:28 PM »
Good points, mikekoz! :like:

Pontificating particularly pious positions pertaining to polymorphic paraphernalia. G-Man.
Global Moderator Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,750
Re: Are Cheap and Cheerful part of the process?
« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2019, 03:09:54 PM »
 :iagree:

Esse Quam Videri
Global Moderator Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,750
Re: Are Cheap and Cheerful part of the process?
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2019, 03:29:34 PM »
I've been wanting a drill/driver and circular saw.  I've been reading thru all the post here about what you guys have.  I have also been looking online.  Every singe review send me to Milwaukee or Dewalt or Makita.  I have seen some very good reviews about other including box store Ryobi.  My projects are around the house and sporadic.  Couple hours tops use and likely no more than 2-3 days.  I'm not sure Ryobi is CnC?  Its inexpensive as compared to the offerings of the others mentioned. 

I bought a Craftsmen drill/driver about 20 years ago.  It was a Sears special that lasted quite a long time.  One day it finally gave out ( battery ).  Replacement of that battery seemed pricy as compared to just getting a new tool.  I certainly got my moneys worth thats for sure.  I did bring it in to Sears and the guys were like "Thats been long discontinued". 

My partner surprised me with a set from a box store.  Drill/driver, circular saw, and reciprocating saw by Ryobi.  She has seen me look over certain ones and say a number of times "I'm just getting the Ryobi!" only to not make a decision.  I admit I get into analysis paralysis. 

I've already put the saw and drill to use.  The saw blade that comes with the tools is ok, it worked.  I was reading about the diablo blades and may get one.  If I were to depend on these tools to make my living I'd get professional grade make no mistake.  As a DIY around the house tool set I believe these "CnC" tools should make the grade.  As a homeowner whose tools wont see the rigors of daily heavy use I believe there is a role for inexpensive tools.  Heck if this set last me like my CnC Craftsmen did I'd be a very happy camper as I'd be well into my retired life  :rofl:   

Esse Quam Videri

 

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