Killer Cowboy Series - Open Source Project

[grouch]

For Victorinox Troubleshooters, Outdoorsman, Trail Guides, Standard and the keychain too.

This is an idea I’ve had for awhile. It is geared towards sellers so I ask forgiveness if it’s not allowed due to its first usage, a Victorinox Troubleshooter, being currently listed. It’s all with good intent .

About the Killer Cowboy Series. It’s an open source fun project with a good cause. Removing unhealthy advertising including box and scales from Swiss Army Knives. I encourage everyone to join in and use the Killer Cowboy name as well as long as you destroy the scale and any advertising, don’t use that company name in descriptions, and include this paragraph with your listing. Bonus points for killer looking knives

I  think some of the models used are amazing and easy to find cheap. The original idea is geared towards reselling the knife so you can do it again to another one. If anyone wants to join in please feel free. Please don’t say the company name in your posts if you can help it. It’s about removing it for future generations

[grouch]

Victorinox Troubleshooter

[LoopCutter]

I am a little bit confused by your post

Are you talking about SAKs found on the auction site that have scales with advertising, or company logos and doing away with that imprint?

Or are you encouraging more substantial modifications?

I believe I have only one such SAK item, but the imprint was not on the scales it was on the blade.

I have cotton son Lm MTs with Laser engraving, I have removed, yet some I have kept as the markings are very unique!

Very curious.  I did search Custom and Killer Cowboy. Came up  short.

[grouch]

It’s about getting rid of smoking advertising on SAKs for future generations. For me it’s also buying cheap and usually gently used knives, and reselling them a little nicer. Thats why I’m “sharing” the name. If others like it and agree to destroy the scale with advertising than they are free to use name as well (I can’t really stop them anyways) it can benefit all sellers with a searchable name for the “series” though It was just an idea I had for my own sales listings and I made a choice myself to destroy the advertising scales as they came across my desk (where idea originated). I’m just encouraging it.

My dad smoked, I smoked and now vape and my nieces and nephews have never seen me do so. Hopefully their generations take up smoking less. That was originally the intention for myself.

Also if forum members wanted to show off builds of Troubleshooters, Outdoorsman, Trail Guides or such they can. If you say the name, that’s free advertising for them and counter productive to goal and less challenging lol. I also encourage anyone with scales  laying around with that logo to throw them away. Cause why not?  I could probably make more reselling the scales but that’s ok. I like breaking them

[grouch]

Killer Cowboy is just the nickname Cowboy Killer flipped around. It’s hard to explain without saying the one brand that has tons of SAKs out there. So many that they’re cheap. Buy cheap, change scales, make lunch money and buy another cheap one. Or just show your own modded version of one of those specific models.

[LoopCutter]

Now makes total sense!  My dad smoke those cowboy style. I never fancied that stuff.

Good for you. Makes perfect sense.  But rarely run across SAKs with that brand, lately med tech and pharmaceutical companies.

[grouch]

Now makes total sense!  My dad smoke those cowboy style. I never fancied that stuff.

Good for you. Makes perfect sense.  But rarely run across SAKs with that brand, lately med tech and pharmaceutical companies.

They are all over on eBay. I added models to first post to help. This is harder than I thought to do without saying it lol. I like the idea that Victorinox can be distanced from the smoking advertising by their own customers. If you collect those, great, yours are becoming rarer as I go.

It’s not just scale swaps either. I plan on making a Troubleshooter into two tools. One I’ll call Squeezers & Scissors and the other would be a “Pocket Clipper” with a SwissKarry Pocket clip. A stand alone plier would also give a Grand Prix. All possible with a $40 knife

[ReamerPunch]

Let me preface my post by saying that I have never smoked anything, and never will.

This thread reminds me of the mutilation of ancient statues so they would not look obscene. Now we have a bunch of mutilated statues.

Sure, SAKs with smoking advertising is not exactly art, but at the same time, lots of people collect SAKs with advertising on the scales. I bought one just because of this advertising, because it is unique, and it is not in the slightest making me want to start smoking. Destroying these means removing a part of SAK history, and preventing many people (who like me do not smoke) from finding one with that advertising. Also, once sellers catch wind of this movement, those particular SAKs will become much more rare and expensive than they already are. This in turn means that a collector will have to pay a premium, or just settle for not having one for the collection.

I get your good intentions, I really do, but also, carrying certain knives is frowned upon or outright illegal, because of laws who punish the innocent majority for acts of the guilty minority, all with good intentions.

I do not want this thread to turn into a political discussion. I just want to point out that censoring Swiss Army Knives is going to hurt a very large community, while helping arguably nobody. My father smoked his whole life, most people of his generation did, openly, because back then it was still legal pretty much everywhere. I never considered smoking, not for a second. Seeing a tiny logo on a SAK that is rare to begin with would not change that.

[grouch]

Let me preface my post by saying that I have never smoked anything, and never will.

This thread reminds me of the mutilation of ancient statues so they would not look obscene. Now we have a bunch of mutilated statues.

Sure, SAKs with smoking advertising is not exactly art, but at the same time, lots of people collect SAKs with advertising on the scales. I bought one just because of this advertising, because it is unique, and it is not in the slightest making me want to start smoking. Destroying these means removing a part of SAK history, and preventing many people (who like me do not smoke) from finding one with that advertising. Also, once sellers catch wind of this movement, those particular SAKs will become much more rare and expensive than they already are. This in turn means that a collector will have to pay a premium, or just settle for not having one for the collection.

I get your good intentions, I really do, but also, carrying certain knives is frowned upon or outright illegal, because of laws who punish the innocent majority for acts of the guilty minority, all with good intentions.

I do not want this thread to turn into a political discussion. I just want to point out that censoring Swiss Army Knives is going to hurt a very large community, while helping arguably nobody. My father smoked his whole life, most people of his generation did, openly, because back then it was still legal pretty much everywhere. I never considered smoking, not for a second. Seeing a tiny logo on a SAK that is rare to begin with would not change that.

I understand completely what you’re saying. Take a peak on eBay though. There are so many of these that people collected that were never used the prices are cheap (think beanie babies). I was already using them and popping off the scales to make custom looking knives. Collectors of beanie babies would love a project like this. Supply and demand will eventually make this a horrible idea. If they become rare I’d honestly be surprised. I’m just deciding to forego selling the scales for $10-15  when I remove them and instead pitch them. If it was culturally significant  I can’t say I would do the same. There are laws where advertising like this was stopped for tobacco (I think). Collectors are probably hoping this works so the ones they bought in the 80’s will approach their original  price again. Yes it’s encouraging others. No, I personally don’t mind if all disappeared. That would mean every person that had one was comfortable with receiving the amount they did all the way to the last.  Thanks for your perspective. I was trying to address all points without trying to be argumentative. Currently 244 results for sale on eBay for them. Let me know if I missed something. I’d love to think it through.

[grouch]

Maybe the encouragement of others may not be coming across the same as I’m seeing it. I’d love to see these models built into great looking knives. I’d like to see what others idea of that is as well. I saw the destroying of the scales as a benefit. I’d love if someone volunteered to store them out of sight in a box. I just don’t think advertising like this should be advertising. I think it cheapens the Victorinox brand in my perspective. All my intentions were to stop advertising. Selling them again wouldn’t accomplish that. Can I send a box to you to anyone to hang onto? I don’t want nicotine to stick around. Yes, I vape. I’ve used nicotine since I was 14. It may be why I see it like this.

[grouch]

I’d also love to implement changes to this idea. It definitely seemed solid for myself to just pop them off and pitch them. I just wanted to open the idea up to others as well. The rules were strict because you could easily have a post where that name gets used more than any other place on the forum. That is  increasing it. We are MILES away from these running dry (see what I did there). I’ll delete the post at 100 customs if desired. That’s half of today’s eBay inventory. I don’t think it will be that big. I like making fun things. Selling them and making more fun things. Maybe call it a club instead of project? I made it all up anyways. Just wanted a way to share and if others liked the idea it was searchable and they could support it.

[ReamerPunch]

I may come off as argumentative, because there is no other way to write what I'm writing. This is not a personal attack in any way, and my views are not shared by MTO and the other staff members. These are my personal thoughts as an individual and as a SAK collector.

I get what you are trying to do, and it is admirable to be trying to get future generations to not start smoking. But do you think this way is efficient and effective?
You are in a SAK forum, arguing about destroying collectible SAK scales. Why? Are these knives really contributing to people starting to smoke? Is Big Tobacco really relying in any way on these old ads to entice more customers? Is this what got you to smoke at 14? Seeing a SAK with that ad on it? I would argue that future smokers become smokers because they see others smoking or vaping, and that you giving up vaping would have a bigger impact to your cause than removing these scales from circulation. You wrote that "We are MILES away from these running dry". Are the knives the issue? I would think the cigarettes and vapes are the actual issue. What steps have you taken against them? Against the actual product that is still everywhere today, rather than a few old knives in auction sites? Even if you bought all those knives available in ebay now, and destroyed the scales, that's less than a drop in the ocean as far as how many people would have started smoking because of the ads, but it would remove about two hundred chances for a collector to get one.

I'll stop here because this is MTO, and you are free to pursue your SAK-related hobbies and post about them. Again, I apologize if any of what I have written seems argumentative, aggressive, disrespectful, or a personal attack.

[grouch]

Spot reserved for trail guide custom

[grouch]

Back to lurking.

[ReamerPunch]

I can rename this thread to anything you want, if you want to make it a club or challenge. I can also move it.
Just a note. You don't have to destroy the scales. You can just polish the ad off. That'll save you a few bucks. Felix Immler has made a tutorial on how to remove ads from scales.
I am not old enough to have seen cigarette ads anywhere. When I saw the one I eventually bought, I thought "That's cool for the collection" so I ordered it. But I do understand the seeming appeal and the tolls of addiction.

Anyway, maybe this discussion has gone far longer that it should have. You are welcomed to pursue your hobbies unimpeded. And feel free to post some pics or the knives you've modded. We love pics.

[grouch]

I was just lifting to resize this. This one is rare and came off today. Would you like it? Would you send a self addressed stamped envelope? I don’t want it

[grouch]

Polishing took about 30 minutes to regain gloss and look decent. A whole set of new scale could be purchased  for what that time costs. It also destroys the scales for  collectors in the future. Why is this ok and not pitching them. Is there a way to reapply the logo later? Have you said anything to Felix about destroying them?

[grouch]

That Cool for the collection is the lifestyle promotion campaign. Have you done that with any other brands?

[grouch]

Did you not see the private messages I sent asking what would work best? I tried to work with you but you wanted to make it known how against it you were. I sanded the back off a silvertech scale and got compliments but these are off limits. I understand asking others to join may not have worked best. Maybe I could start a club in mod squad or here for modifying specifically these models. O don’t know

[grouch]

I will put everyone in a box and send it to who ever would like to archive these for the future

[grouch]

I can rename this thread to anything you want, if you want to make it a club or challenge. I can also move it.
Just a note. You don't have to destroy the scales. You can just polish the ad off. That'll save you a few bucks. Felix Immler has made a tutorial on how to remove ads from scales.
I am not old enough to have seen cigarette ads anywhere. When I saw the one I eventually bought, I thought "That's cool for the collection" so I ordered it. But I do understand the seeming appeal and the tolls of addiction.

Anyway, maybe this discussion has gone far longer that it should have. You are welcomed to pursue your hobbies unimpeded. And feel free to post some pics or the knives you've modded. We love pics.

is there a way to delete it without asking the person so against it? Maybe delete the silver lining scale mod post I made as well. Im pretty sure there are less of those scales

[Antti Lammi]

I dont think collectors of tobacco ads wanna devalue their SAKs just by removing ad. I also think IMHO that people who own starts smoking just cause of ad, i dont have (yet) those SAKs in my collection but i have bunch of other ads on my SAK and still dont wanna buy those products just cause those have ads.
I smoked lot back in days not cause of ads and stopped it years ago. Reason why i started smoking was group pressure not ads.

[Grant Lamontagne]

I appreciate that we are all staying respectful on this one.  It's one of those difficult topics that I find fascinating.

On the one hand, you have an advertisement of a product that has killed many, continues to kill many, and leaves many others with significant health problems. 

I don't smoke.  I hated it when my parents smoked, and other than having a few in my life (probably less than one person decade) to see what the fuss was about, it's just not my thing. 

Some may feel different, and that's fine too.  But the folks that hate it have every right and every reason to hate it, and I applaud the idea of not passing bad habits to future generations.

That having been said, there is the historical and collectible value of these items, that were not regular offerings, available only to the select few that consumed enough product to justify a reward.

I have a few of these myself, including one that a previous owner had swapped the scales on, not knowing the historical value of.   

I think that in the end, we all need to remember that many of us are going to have strong feelings one way or another on this, and that's okay.  We will continue to show respect to each other, and that's what matters. 

We are all allowed, empowered and encouraged to have our own priorities, particularly when it comes to the things we own.   

Def

[nate j]

In general, I don’t support erasing history (even, or perhaps especially, things we may find distasteful by our current standards).

I have a Marlboro SAK or two, and plan to leave them as they are.

You are, of course, free to do as you please with your own property.

 

[pfrsantos]

Have you considered how much the scales thrown away like this would amount to, in terms of garbage/polution? Wouldn't it be better to find another way to get rid of a "problem" without causing another?

There's probably some other brands advertised that could fit this same issue, like alcohol or eco "unfriendly" products. Do you plan to expand your scope?

 

[Farmer X]

This thread reminds me of the mutilation of ancient statues so they would not look obscene. Now we have a bunch of mutilated statues.

infinitely. My opinions on such things are pretty strong, but out of desire to not egregiously violate forum policies, I'll refrain from sharing them.

My thoughts on this matter are as follows:

I used to smoke like a two-stroke Diesel. I don't recall if Marlboro Miles were a thing during my smoking career, but I never did anything with Camel Cash. Tobacco regulation has changed markedly in my lifetime, especially with regards to taxation and marketing. I don't know if Big Tobacco are allowed to offer such things as SAKs with their logo anymore. Combine that with the current selling prices of cigarettes, and I highly doubt that seeing a Troubleshooter with its Marlboro logo intact is going to entice anyone to start or continue smoking. Rather, those tobacco logos should be preserved as a part of history. Remember that old line about those who cannot remember the past?

Personally, I like SAKs with logos. I won't remove them unless they're badly worn or they represent a product or entity that I dislike. In the latter case, I'm more likely to let such an SAK get away from me. One exception is a Rover with a Big Pharma logo that I acquired pretty inexpensively. Though I find Big Pharma even more detestable than Big Tobacco, that logo remains intact, primarily because I don't want to hone my scale restoration skills on Retro Green or Peacock Blue. (I haven't conclusively determined which of those colors adorns the Rover.)

And with that, I'll shut up and get off my soapbox.

[grouch]

I had been open to the suggestions made and even saw my first post came off harsh. Tried contacting those to figure out a solution I could reword what I said and possibly start over. This forum when not familiar with it is hard on a mobile platform. I had asked to have this removed as I felt it didn’t fit my original intentions in the way it was said. I guess that cant happen. I can’t have additional stress in my life right now so I’m going to walk away from this forum right now until offered the grace  I am asking for. I have learned a lot here and thankful to have been here.

[IMR4198]

Hi Grouch,
      I don't know you and you don't know me.  I remember the night light see through mod you made.  Very clever and good workmanship.  What happened with this post? 
      I doubt if anyone is angry with you over your thread.  They didn't agree with what you were doing, but so what?  You can have hard feelings about it, but I have an idea you might be the only one who might hold a grudge. 
      Keep doing what you are doing if you like.  Doesn't have anything to do with me.  Want to pry off scales and replace them?  Good on you. 
      In my time on here I have seen members leave who had over 30,000 posts.  Posted every day just like clockwork.  Did anybody say whatever happened to old Honolulu?  Not a soul.  If I fell dead tomorrow, would anybody here say, "What in the world happened to old IMR?"  Not a single person would.  Life goes on.
      Don't fret about your thread.  You haven't done damage to yourself or your reputation here.  My reputation here is for being a cheapskate, liar, and kook.  I called everyone on here a bunch of wackos just a week or two ago.  Did any of these wackos dear friends get mad at me?  I don't think so.  If you end up with stress, it will be of your own doing.  I don't think you have been condemned by anyone.  Different opinions.
      Oh, and I might want that nice set of red scales you offered, if that includes a set of two.  I have a Spartan with really ugly scales.  I might polish off the naughty. 
Best wishes.
Gary
       

[Farmer X]

+1. This amounted to differing opinions. And if alterations to a thread or topic don't happen quickly, that's not a huge cause for concern. Some operations are inevitably going to be more difficult than others. And the moderating team collectively have lives outside of here.

Did anybody say whatever happened to old Honolulu?  Not a soul.  If I fell dead tomorrow, would anybody here say, "What in the world happened to old IMR?"  Not a single person would.

I wonder about what happens to members who have been gone for a while after posting regularly. Aloha, Nix, zoidberg (whose disappearance was particularly unusual), and others. If they feel the need to take a sabbatical or step away entirely, I wish them well.

And just for the record, I'm very okay with slapping a new pair of scales on an SAK. I have plans to do just that if and when I find a suitable recipient and the desired combination of scale size and material.

[ReamerPunch]

I had been open to the suggestions made and even saw my first post came off harsh. Tried contacting those to figure out a solution I could reword what I said and possibly start over. This forum when not familiar with it is hard on a mobile platform. I had asked to have this removed as I felt it didn’t fit my original intentions in the way it was said. I guess that cant happen. I can’t have additional stress in my life right now so I’m going to walk away from this forum right now until offered the grace  I am asking for. I have learned a lot here and thankful to have been here.

I offered to rename the thread for you. You asked whether a challenge or club would work best. Assuming you want it to work best for your cause, I do not know as I cannot predict the future. I can edit your opening post as well, but I cannot reword it for you. You sent me personal messages but what you sent me was already posted in here, which is why I replied here, before you edited your posts. I suggested polishing the scales instead of destroying them because I thought it would help with your cause, because even though I do not agree with it, it is your decision and I cannot tell you not to do it. I remember Felix Immler on youtube being able to remove logos very quickly and cleanly. I did not know you had already tried it.

There are people who agree with me, and people who agree with you, people who don't care, people who agree with both, and people who are undecided. There is no reason to get stressed over anything. This thread will be buried under other threads, and will be forgotten. You can start new threads with what you want to do. Nothing has been lost. Nothing has changed.