Show Your Air Rifles

dmanuel · **Reply #150 on:** April 25, 2014, 05:22:18 PM

Quote from: kirk13 on April 25, 2014, 05:12:03 PM

That's the CO2/HPA powered one? Personally wouldn't bother,too gimmicky.

So what makes it gimmicky and why would you suggest those over the Disco?

Sorry, guess I didnt make myself very clear. I'm looking for a project gun with lots of aftermarket parts. Something to tinker with and build on, strong enough to hunt with out to 50 yards or so, light enough to carry in the field, and decent enough to plink with. Not wanting to spend a ton on the gun (stay around $300 for the base rifle) since I plan on buying/making parts to clean up the action, trigger, etc.

kirk13 · **Reply #151 on:** April 25, 2014, 05:53:11 PM

CO2and High Pressure Air are different things. If a gun is built to use both,it won't be good at either.

Your in the Phillipines? What are the air gun laws there? In the UK,we're limited in the power available,unless you have a gun lisance. Most hunters in the UK wouldn't try for a kill shot much past 35yrds,so I would have thought that at 50yrds you'd be wanting more than 12ft/lbs.

As to tinkering....

Spring guns are a workshop tinkerers dream,while the Chinese Bam XS78 CO2 guns offer great options for tuning and fettling.

If your looking for something with tons of aftermarket goodies,look at the Crossman CO2 stuff.

As to why I've recommended the guns I have? Either I use them,or they're used by the folks that kick my butt

Any help there

dmanuel · **Reply #152 on:** April 25, 2014, 06:24:04 PM

That's a lot more help, I appreciate it! Here it is pretty strict with all of the higher powered airguns having to be licensed and since I'm a foreigner I'm not supposed to own any of them which is why I am waiting until I get back home to the US.

In Texas they can be bought anywhere by anyone over 18. Heck, I think I got my first Benjamin 392 when I was 6.

So what are the differences between Co2 and HPA?

12 ft/lbs? Most of the reviews I've been reading puts it between 20 and 26 ft/lbs. Maybe I'm missing something though. The accuracy seems to be doing pretty good in most of the reviews too, with a lot of videos out there showing people shooting 1/2" groups at 50 yards or popping golf tee's at 50 yards.

Not trying to be that guy, but have you actually shot this rifle or are you operating off of preconceived notions? I do value the input, you obviously have much more experience than I do with air guns just wondering where the information is coming from is all.

Edit: I'm trying to stay away from Co2 rifles. I would rather not have to constantly pay for the gas.

jzmtl · **Reply #153 on:** April 25, 2014, 06:29:56 PM

The rifle/pump package used to be a very good starter pack to PCP at US price, but I think it has gone up since. Still the cheapest way to get into PCP though.

UK guys are limited to 12 ft.lb without a license so you'll see a lot of guns sold there tailored to that power.

We are limited to 4.2 ft.lb...

kirk13 · **Reply #154 on:** April 25, 2014, 07:15:42 PM

@ dmanuel: The only Benjamin I've had a play with was a rebadged Chinese springer( not a problem,but why pay more for an American badge

)

If I were buying live ammo firearms,I'd always consider American guns,but I air guns,I really believe that the Germans and Brits rule,if only because of how much more liberal American gun laws are. As to the discovery itself,never even seen one in the flesh,but as Gareth will tell you,one of my rules of thumb is whether I see many of a gun type in any of the competitions I do.

The other thing is this...

I've had a play with CO2 guns,but pistol and rifle. The problem is that co2 is so temperature sensitive. As air temperature increases,so will gas pressure and Vise versa,thus changing the pressure available per shot,and thus constantly changing the aim points.

High pressure air is much less susseptable to changes in ambient temperature.

Also co2 works on much lower pressures than HPA. Obviously the Discovery works,but how well in the real world?! The British air gun magazines gave it high marks,but they do that with all guns( my favourite test being on the XS78, being crono'd at 11.5fl/lbs

. They need lots of tuning to make 10!)

With air guns,accuracy at 50yrds isn't difficult,my 22BSA Ultra will knock in 2p groups all day long,but against live game,it's how much energy your still carrying down range. I've never actually tested it myself,but my understanding is that if you have 12ft/lbs at the muzzle, you'll only be carrying 5-6ft/lbs at 50yrds. BASC,the British shooting and conservation guys,would advise that you have little chance of a clean kill with that energy.

Depending on what your going to be shooting,would a 22Short not make better sense?

@ jzmtl: spot on there mate. 4.5ft/lbs??? Just use a pea shooter!

dmanuel · **Reply #155 on:** April 25, 2014, 08:17:47 PM

Amazing info! Thanks a ton

22 Short is expensive and hard to find in the US. If anything I would go back to a 5mm (again hard to find) or just one of my many (~45) 22 LR's. I have plenty of powder burners but I was thinking about broadening my horizons a bit. Plus, pellets are much cheaper to shoot

Ah ok, I see where you were coming from. In Texas (where I am from) there are no restrictions that I know of on air rifles. A lot of the reviews are showing a tuned Disco producing ~800-850 FPS with a 18gr pellet. If my math is correct even running 750 FPS at 18 grains should net me 22.4 ft/lbs. In my experience that is plenty for knocking down squirrels, rabbits, and smalls pests cleanly.

If I were looking to shoot competitively I would probably look at an Anschutz or something similar. However, I am a fan of putting my tools to work and polishing a turd up. It's just good fun and even more fun when you can compete with the big boys. Not saying this ever will mind you. I shoot rimfire comps at home and consistently keep up, and occasionally beat, the Annies and 40-Xs with my highly modified CZ 452. Nothing like having a guy with a $2.5k rifle looking at you crazy because your $350 rifle just beat him.

jzmtl · **Reply #156 on:** April 25, 2014, 08:19:45 PM

They actually wanted to make ALL of them firearms and require licensing, but the kink was that would make every kid with a bb gun a criminal, so they compromised on 500 fps. Then it comes the hypervelocity light pellets, and that made those kids all criminals again, so they added the 4.2 ft.lb part. But of course the application of this rule is a clustersmurf in itself...

Have you looked at the marauder? Bigger bro to the discovery and probably better suited for hunting.

A good place to find more info is on GTA airgun forums, although you may want to ignore the whackos who shoot stuff they don't even recognize, or kill/injure animals for fun.

kirk13 · **Reply #157 on:** April 25, 2014, 08:46:23 PM

Quote from: dmanuel on April 25, 2014, 08:17:47 PM

Amazing info! Thanks a ton

22 Short is expensive and hard to find in the US. If anything I would go back to a 5mm (again hard to find) or just one of my many (~45) 22 LR's. I have plenty of powder burners but I was thinking about broadening my horizons a bit. Plus, pellets are much cheaper to shoot

Ah ok, I see where you were coming from. In Texas (where I am from) there are no restrictions that I know of on air rifles. A lot of the reviews are showing a tuned Disco producing ~800-850 FPS with a 18gr pellet. If my math is correct even running 750 FPS at 18 grains should net me 22.4 ft/lbs. In my experience that is plenty for knocking down squirrels, rabbits, and smalls pests cleanly.

If I were looking to shoot competitively I would probably look at an Anschutz or something similar. However, I am a fan of putting my tools to work and polishing a turd up. It's just good fun and even more fun when you can compete with the big boys. Not saying this ever will mind you. I shoot rimfire comps at home and consistently keep up, and occasionally beat, the Annies and 40-Xs with my highly modified CZ 452. Nothing like having a guy with a $2.5k rifle looking at you crazy because your $350 rifle just beat him.

I see where your coming from

I used to take great pleasure annoying a Russian guy at my club with an Air Arms ProSporter, by knocking in groups with a Bam DB4

Just as a an idea,have a look at the Hatsan AT44. They're Turkish,and are far better than Thier price or reputation suggest. An Airgun forum I used to belong to had quite a group dedicated to the AT44, and the were a bunch of tinkerers. I shot one a few weeks back,and if I were looking for a low cost Multi shot PCP,it would high on my shopping list
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Hatsan_AT44PA_PCP_Air_Rifle_Black/2779

My shooting partner is in the process of changing over from a .22 BSA Scorpion to an Air Arms S200. He's been looking at tricking it out with a ten round mag,and a regulator to up the shot count...and it's actually a rebadged CZ

http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Air_Arms_S200_FT/348

I wouldn't generally compare Anschultz powder burners,and ten meter air rifles to their HFT rig. The HFT rigs seem to require two or three visits back to the factory before they work...bit of a gip for a £1000 gun

kirk13 · **Reply #158 on:** April 27, 2014, 10:45:39 PM

Sorry,but I really need to say

We had the club HFT comp this morning,round 2 of our championship. Scored 52x60, equalling my all out personal best,and setting a new PB for a recoiling air gun( old one was 49). Better still,it wasn't just a class win,but an overall win!

willc · **Reply #159 on:** April 28, 2014, 02:17:11 AM

I am mostly into air pistols but I have a few rifles that me and my son plink around on.
The only pics I have right now are my Crosman 2200, 1377,and 1322.

I really enjoy shooting and since I live in a big city I can only shoot in my garage or on my roof at home.
I prefer pumps or springers to co2 but I still shoot my co2's when it is warm out.
One of these days I want to try out hpa.
The Hatsans do look nice.

Sent from my fancy work phone.

ducttapetech · **Reply #160 on:** April 28, 2014, 04:03:26 PM

Quote from: kirk13 on April 27, 2014, 10:45:39 PM

Sorry,but I really need to say

We had the club HFT comp this morning,round 2 of our championship. Scored 52x60, equalling my all out personal best,and setting a new PB for a recoiling air gun( old one was 49). Better still,it wasn't just a class win,but an overall win!

Nice shooting Kirk!

live from Nate's mobile

kirk13 · **Reply #161 on:** April 28, 2014, 05:05:59 PM

Quote from: willc on April 28, 2014, 02:17:11 AM

I am mostly into air pistols but I have a few rifles that me and my son plink around on.
The only pics I have right now are my Crosman 2200, 1377,and 1322. (Image removed from quote.)(Image removed from quote.)(Image removed from quote.)
I really enjoy shooting and since I live in a big city I can only shoot in my garage or on my roof at home.
I prefer pumps or springers to co2 but I still shoot my co2's when it is warm out.
One of these days I want to try out hpa.
The Hatsans do look nice.

Sent from my fancy work phone.

Nice looking pistols

kirk13 · **Reply #162 on:** April 28, 2014, 05:06:52 PM

Quote from: ducttapetech on April 28, 2014, 04:03:26 PM

Quote from: kirk13 on April 27, 2014, 10:45:39 PM
Sorry,but I really need to say

We had the club HFT comp this morning,round 2 of our championship. Scored 52x60, equalling my all out personal best,and setting a new PB for a recoiling air gun( old one was 49). Better still,it wasn't just a class win,but an overall win!
Nice shooting Kirk!

live from Nate's mobile

Cheers mate

I'm hoping there's still more to come

jzmtl · **Reply #163 on:** April 29, 2014, 12:51:00 AM

My crappy ones, from top Diana 240, Crosman tr77 nps, and Benjamin classic .22. Living in the city so no place to go, these are quiet enough to shoot at home.

Gareth · **Reply #164 on:** June 09, 2014, 09:59:30 AM

Here's my new rifle:

Sad(ish) to say that the old HW97KT is now gone and this is the replacement. Now those in the know might think me utterly NUTS for having gone from the 97 to the 57, but truth be told the 97 was just too nose heavy for me and it was never going to get any lighter. $:-\$ I know the 57 has a poor reputation due to the unusual loading port, but from talking to a couple of guys who actually own and shoot them the reputation is undeserved. I've not yet put a full tin of pellets through her yet but she's already proving herself to be a very well behaved and accurate rifle.

Gareth · **Reply #165 on:** June 09, 2014, 10:05:09 AM

Quote from: kirk13 on April 27, 2014, 10:45:39 PM

Sorry,but I really need to say

We had the club HFT comp this morning,round 2 of our championship. Scored 52x60, equalling my all out personal best,and setting a new PB for a recoiling air gun( old one was 49). Better still,it wasn't just a class win,but an overall win!

Sorry mate, I totally missed this before.

Allow me to now say "good shooting Tex"!

kirk13 · **Reply #166 on:** June 09, 2014, 10:32:09 AM

Nothing wrong with the 57 what so ever Gareth! We have one in the club armoury,and it's a good,honest,if abused gun. I've shot a couple of other ones,and do like them!

Gareth · **Reply #167 on:** June 09, 2014, 10:58:30 AM

Cheers John, that's good to hear.

kirk13 · **Reply #168 on:** June 09, 2014, 11:18:53 AM

Tbh Gareth,if one had have come up at the right price,I'd have had one when I bought Lyudmila last year. I don't find a balance issue with the 97,but the 57 is much lighter,and more compact!

kirk13 · **Reply #169 on:** June 23, 2014, 10:09:19 AM

Done another open comp at Horsham a Hawks yesterday. Took the Ultra,having found that the scope on Lyudmila is fubar. Used the new 'Droid to take a few pix

Plink range

The black dot in the center of the squirrel is the 'kill' you need to hit to knock the target over. In this case about 15mm!

Me about to take the shot. I plated it!

Gareth · **Reply #170 on:** June 28, 2014, 12:34:50 AM

What score did you get in the end mate?

kirk13 · **Reply #171 on:** June 28, 2014, 12:43:53 AM

Quote from: Gareth on June 28, 2014, 12:34:50 AM

What score did you get in the end mate?

Not a good day at the office...36

I filled the Ultra past her sweet spot after checking zero on the plink range...it all went South from there.

Gareth · **Reply #172 on:** June 28, 2014, 01:02:15 AM

Ah well, can't win them all I guess. $:-\$

kirk13 · **Reply #173 on:** June 28, 2014, 01:09:24 AM

On the up side,I've a new Nikko Sterling Mountmaster fitted to Lyudmila,and should have the ranging done by end of Monday. I've gotten roped into the Sussex Interclub camps,and the next round of that is on 6th July

Gareth · **Reply #174 on:** June 28, 2014, 01:20:17 AM

Planning on shooting with Ludmilla I'm guessing?

Gareth · **Reply #175 on:** June 28, 2014, 01:24:27 AM

If the sun, moon and stars all come into alignment I might be shooting in a comp at my club on the 20th of July. IF someone gets their finger out and let's folks know what the details are that is.

kirk13 · **Reply #176 on:** June 28, 2014, 01:43:36 AM

Oh yeah!

Gareth · **Reply #177 on:** July 20, 2014, 05:52:25 PM

Quote from: Gareth on June 28, 2014, 01:24:27 AM

If the sun, moon and stars all come into alignment I might be shooting in a comp at my club on the 20th of July. IF someone gets their finger out and let's folks know what the details are that is.

Well, I managed to get the celestial bodies to bend into shape and got out this morning to go on my first ever competition shoot. The vast majority of the shooters there were competition regulars (and the Scottish National Team was out in force) and most agreed it was a challenging course, the best score on the day was a 54.

I managed, what I think, is a very respectable 41 and I know I fluffed a couple of shots and should have brought home a couple more points. I am in no way complaining though and had a flipping good day.

Mike, Lord of the Spammers! · **Reply #178 on:** July 20, 2014, 06:47:39 PM

Sounds good to me mate if your getting close to the national teams scores!!

Sent from the astropathic choir.

Gareth · **Reply #179 on:** July 20, 2014, 07:21:45 PM

Quote from: Mike, Lord of the Spammers! on July 20, 2014, 06:47:39 PM

Sounds good to me mate if your getting close to the national teams scores!!

Sent from the astropathic choir.

Cheers Mike.

It's actually not all that close, but still respectable for a rookie.

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