How do you read the forums?

[Andreas]

I have noticed a trend on the forum that I wanted to bring up for discussion. I've posted some reviews lately with both pictures and videos that I'd think would interest people on this forum, but whenever i check "replies to your posts" it's always my off topic threads that have new replies - like my young people rant, which now has 4 pages of replies for some reason I can't fathom (it should have died after the first 2 replies, IMHO).

I looked more into this, and noticed a pattern in what sections of the forum generate replies.
If you look at "the break room", a lot of posts that really have nothing to do with MTs have dozens of replies. Looking at the review section, or the mod section, a lot of threads there have no more than 5 replies. When I joined I read through a lot of threads, especially in the mod section, and was surprised to find so many "hidden gems" that had gotten almost no attention. An example. Another example. Another example. Another example. Another example. etc
How is my crappy-ass youth rant worth twice as many replies as all that awesomeness combined?
This isn't meant as criticism, just an observation

I've seen people comment that they don't normally visit this and that part of the forum, so that made me think that maybe the reason for this is that people don't read all sections of the forums. I always use the "show unread posts since last visit" link to check the forum, as the forum is still small enough that it won't generate more than 2-3 pages in a whole day using that link. That way I see all posts regardless of where they are posted.

What about you? Do you read each section, specific sections, or do you use the "all in one" links? Do you ever look through old post, and do you ever bump them? I tend to not reply to old posts as a general rule, but for things like mods etc it's really never to late to comment.

I bring this up because I like this site a lot, but I get a bit depressed when I visit and find people (including myself, by all means) busily discussing how young people suck rather than praising evil510 for his latest creation or drooling over Neil's SAK collection

[specgrade]

 Forums are hit or miss. It depends on a lot of things. If I see something I like I'll stop and read it and may post. I can only read "nice tool" so often then I just move on. Wait, that didn't sound right 

 I feel your pain, though. On some forums they have an introduction section and hardly anybody welcomes you. I guess you just struck a chord with some folks (young people rant) and they posted. Sometimes it depends on my mood if I post a reply. I'll read others and agree and move on.

 

[DaveK]

Whilst I'll always read people's reviews on tools (as I did with yours, which was excellent btw), it's often the case that I've nothing to add that I haven't said before. We are a pretty dedicated but small user group on here I think, so I'm sure many of the "regular" posters probably feel the same way.

These days, I often make a point of NOT replying, and simply enjoy reading the posts made by new members, rather than getting into old debates! Every now and then I might post a "nice review" type comment just to let people know I've read it and hopefully encourage them - but the mods here are very good at that too!

The thing that's different about the off-topic threads is that they haven't been discussed before, therefore people feel they have something new to contribute, so they often get more responses.

That's my theory anyway!

Thanks for digging this back up though - I'd forgotten all about that. I still have that SAK, I use it for heat sealing paracord

[Andreas]

I know I shouldn't complain about people replying to my off topic posts, but the thing is that I've seen forums die from this before. More precisely, there was a Norwegian Star Trek forum that I was once a member of where the off topic talk took over to such a degree that I just left as there were no active topics about star trek anymore. None. Same thing happened to a geocaching forum I was on, thought it started before I joined really.

Another reason why I have a phobia against such off topic "takeovers" if that I've been writing informational articles about various subjects for professionally run websites for a few years now and that has pretty much complaetely destroyed my ability to talk about off topic subjects. In fact i've tried about three times to start a personal blog only to go back, think "what epic crap", delete it and write informational articles there too.

Maybe it's just me who's crazy   wouldn't be the first time

[AHB]

Just take a deep breath and relax, we'll also be here in the years to come..   

[DaveK]

I think the fact that this place isn't patrolled by thread Nazis is one of it's biggest attractions tbh. In fact, the mods here (well Mike and Ben) are the worst for taking threads off-topic

It's that generally relaxed atmosphere that means this forum will only go from strength to strength IMO - people aren't intimidated and frightened to post. It's a bitch trying to find something months after it was posted, but I'd hate it of this place got like some other forums!

I'll keep coming back until they chuck me out anyway

[Andreas]

These days, I often make a point of NOT replying, and simply enjoy reading the posts made by new members, rather than getting into old debates! Every now and then I might post a "nice review" type comment just to let people know I've read it and hopefully encourage them - but the mods here are very good at that too!

That's what I normally do too, for the same reasons. The more correct something is, the less reason I find there is to comment. However I'm trying to rid myself of that strain of thought, for several reasons. First of all, if someone has something right I think they deserve to know it. More importantly though, I find that adding comments to deserving topics is a necessity for making the forum easy to navigate. When I first got here (or on any other forum), I first searched around for the things that most interested me, which was the Skeletool. I found Shorty66's Skelesurge and evil510's project Skeletool/url] and that's when I realized I'd hit the jackpot in finding this site. After searching for various things I started sorting the forums by the most viewed and most replied to topics, and that's when I discovered such epicness as evil510's [url=http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,20667.0.html]Wave scissors (yes I know this is the third example from him, I swear I'm not a stalker  ).

Yet even now after spending hours and hours browsing the old threads I still find hidden treasures that I never discovered because they didn't get the attention they needed back then to make them stand out later on. The forum software that the site is using is (I'm guessing) free, and compared to some "full featured" forums like vbullitin it lacks a lot of features - especially for the search feature, and that makes it even more important to keep the threads that stand out alive, IMHO. I think you made my point rather well with this comment

Thanks for digging this back up though - I'd forgotten all about that. I still have that SAK, I use it for heat sealing paracord

@DaveK:
I totally agree with you on that, it's really what makes this forum special. I didn't mean that the off topic should stop, simply that it's important to keep the other threads alive as well. Also that judging by comments I've seen from people in posts and the statistics on various forum sections, it looks like not many people (outside the no life members) use the "new posts" button. If you look at my examples, those are threads that IMHO shouldn't have died when they did, because that makes them that much harder to find later. Besides sorting by popularity the less replies there are, the fewer related keywords will be naturally added to the thread and the harder it is to find a thread with the search feature. On the other hand, some threads drown good posts in other posts. A good example of that are the two Thai dudes who keep making epic wooden SAKs, where the pictures are lost in side the 100 page long "show off your SAK mods" thread. I doubt many new members have seen those, and that is almost a crime if you ask me 

[WhichDawg]

yes relax and enjoy! this place is one of the best for "off topic" carry-overs yet it still remains true to the luv of tools with a sprinkle of good fun and very good people.

as one of the makers of the biggest "off-topic" threads here (death-chat) I've been in forums for years and have learned it's not about the rules or even the actual subject (multitools, blades, flashlights) that make a place fun and interesting but the people who frequent a place that give it life and character.

and this place has some characters!  

[DaveK]

Considering my post-count, I start very few new topics actually. I'm not sure why that is, probably just laziness

[Neil]

People come here for the tools but they stay for the crack

If it was all just about data we could do away with the forum and just fill up the wikis.  OK, a bit of an exaggeration I admit

[cerbera147]

I check 'replies to my posts' first then 'unread posts since last visit' 

Depending on what's going on in my life I may read them all or select a few to read. Of those I may not have anything to add to the thread. I've been here about a year and according to the stats post about 5-6 times per day. I am online most times but just quietly read away in the background, a lurker if you will   I do tend overthink my posts most of the time. Think of my posts as quality not quantity 

I'll still feel like I'm part of the conversation / thread even if I haven't actually posted 

It's the off topic randomness that makes a forum. I could see your point earlier about the picture thread; just pics no chit chat. It drove me up the wall wading through pages and pages of the EDC Bags thread on EDCF; most pages didn't have a pic on them  Although sometimes it can be difficult not to respond to something like ask a question or congratulate someones work; it's just the way is crazy humans are 

[Freudian Frog]

Don't you question me! Sometimes I just don't feel like it!

I kind of skim over new posts and replies to my posts every once in awhile, I look at most things and selectively post wherever I want. >_>

[Andreas]

It's the off topic randomness that makes a forum. I could see your point earlier about the picture thread; just pics no chit chat. It drove me up the wall wading through pages and pages of the EDC Bags thread on EDCF; most pages didn't have a pic on them   Although sometimes it can be difficult not to respond to something like ask a question or congratulate someones work; it's just the way is crazy humans are  

That's why I wish there was a better system. vbullitin actually has a lot of such features built in; you can have your own (or multi user) photo albums within the forum software itself. Here's an example from one of my albums on a site I work for: http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/album.php?albumid=14&pictureid=93
Each picture has its own comment field and its integrated in the forum instead of as an external thing like the wiki galleries etc are here.
It also has specific software for sales sections http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/vbclassified.php

Any chance we oculd all get together and pay for a vbullitin license? $200 isnt much for a forum this size 

[Mr. Whippy]

You asked a question, so here is my answer.

My replies fall into a few categories.  Sometimes I respond to posts to give information.  I consider those "Librarian" or "Voice of Experience" responses.   Other times, I challenge stated facts (Less so on this forum).  I consider these "Refereed Journal" responses.  

Finally, I consider this a forum of friends and many of my posts are what I consider "Conversational" responses--that is the bulk of break room posts.

In mod and review threads, if it involves a tool I don't know much about, I try to not muddle up the thread with "Me too", "+1" type responses.

Since I post a fair bit at work, I don't really have time for reading detailed threads there.  I try to get back to them in the evenings and weekends.  Not entirely fail safe, but it's all I've got.  

[nuphoria]

I usually hit unread posts first but that's if I'm not looking for anything specific. I agree with a lot of the above statements, especially from Dave and Neil - it's not all about tools, which is why there is always something going on. I don't think we're in any danger of going anywhere either

The break room is just that, a break from all the other stuff which is why your rant attracted plenty of replies. Many of us love a good rant and a laugh in there. It's a great part of the forum and doesn't detract from the really good stuff in the mods section etc - I always read anything new there. The threads with lots of good pics are worth going through so I don't mind hidden gems in there. I admit it's tricky to search for some things, especially if it's a pic you were after, but over all I think this forum is excellent.

[sappyg]

how i read the forum:
1. hit the swiss board
2. jump to the edge
3. dabble in the general
4. breakroom

ocasionally check out the reviews. i think i've read several of andreas's reviews and some of the videos. commented only once. i do like to get others take on a tool and needs. sometimes it's an eye opener. i just read through jekostas review of the SanReMu knife and thought it was excellent. i did'nt post b/c i had nothing to add. frankly, it's one of the best reviews i've read period.
there are some posters here that i always enjoy what they contribute and you can usually know them better in an off topic thread. some used the phrase 'thread nazis' earlier and for sure MTO does not need them or want them i think. i like MTO the way it is formatted and run now. i have left a forum due to 'improvements'
re: the young people rant. i considered it a valuable insight into norwegian culture and the life and time of an intrepid scholar. from this and other threads i have come to know andreas and i no longer refer to him has 'cptno' which i did up until that point.

[Andreas]

there are some posters here that i always enjoy what they contribute and you can usually know them better in an off topic thread. some used the phrase 'thread nazis' earlier and for sure MTO does not need them or want them i think. i like MTO the way it is formatted and run now. i have left a forum due to 'improvements'
re: the young people rant. i considered it a valuable insight into norwegian culture and the life and time of an intrepid scholar. from this and other threads i have come to know andreas and i no longer refer to him has 'cptno' which i did up until that point.

You do have a point with that one. I think my point came out a bit badly with the first post; I didn't mean that off topic should disappear, what I meant was that I wish that there was more activity in the other sections of the forum as well as the break room. I've mentioned several reasons for this of course and most of them have to do with my slight OCD wanting things to be neat and tidy, which I find is a lot easier when popularity = quality. Of course as many people have pointed out that is easier said than done because it's a lot easier to comment on something new and off topic, or help a new member with problems etc than it is to find something to add to a mod thread, or a picture thread or something like that. Hence the point and title of this thread points to how people read the forums in terms of what sections they visit etc, since I've seen people comment on some threads that they missed post X for a while because they don't really visit that part of the forum.

Here's an idea for the moderators: how about creating a sticky topic in some of the subforums, and use those as a directory for the "must see" threads? For instance in the mod section it would include "epic" mods like the wave scissors etc. That way new members would have easy access to what old members considers the prime of the forum.
The problem with this is that because of the time limited edit system on here a moderator have to run the threads and update them in order to keep the first post updated.

Speaking of which, I know the reasons why forum admins put time restrictions on the edit feature for normal members, however in my experience (which in this case actually counts for something) it's very rarely a problem that you can go back and edit posts whenever. Especially on a forum like this where, as far as I have seen, everyone are friends. The advantages of having an unlimited edit feature helps a lot with stuff getting drowned in large threads as the original poster can go back and keep the first post updated. I posted a few reviews yesterday - or more precisely last night - and had to convert the formatting from HTML used for my blog to BBCODE for the forum. I forgot to add the links and realized such when I posted the last review, and when I went back to fix that the first of the reviews had been locked for editing. I often update my articles both to fix typos, add information, links to later reviews etc and hadn't thought of this little issue when I started copying posts from my blog to the forum. As a result I went back and deleted the reviews I could and posted a link to my blog instead, since I can then edit that and not have to worry about two different versions being around.

Another similar example is mod squad posts where the original poster don't wait until a project is finished to post, an example being J-sews' Super Juice KF4. The ideal way for that thread to be "run" would be to also update the first post whenever new photos and information is added, so that someone who reads it for the first time can easily get all the actual information before getting to the comments. Granted J-sews in a mod and COULD do so, but for normal members that's impossible because we don't have access to edit after an hour or so.

Sales threads is another example of the same thing, it would be really nice to have the ability to update the first post as things get sold etc, instead of having to post the same post all over again time and time again to be able to update a list of things for sale.

So, how about it? 

[Neil]

Bad things have happened here a while back that means post editing except for a short time isn't allowed.  That's not likely to change, sorry.

Too many stickies and stickies get ignored    Not a bad suggestion though and something to be considered

[Andreas]

Bad things have happened here a while back that means post editing except for a short time isn't allowed.  That's not likely to change, sorry.

Now you just made me curious 

[Grant Lamontagne]

Some time ago we had a very knowledgeable member who posted a lot of interesting information on many exotic tools that most people have never even heard of.  Then, following a personality conflict with another member, the first member went through all his old posts and deleted the information.  Basically the result was punishing an entire community of enthusiasts for an altercation that took place off the forum that no one else knew about.

Also, I see a thread as a living thing, free to grow in whichever way the community chooses to shape it.  Going back and changing it's starting point based on where it's going is unacceptable to me, as would everyone melting down their PST's because they are old, outdated and are outperformed in every way by more modern tools.  You don't know what's next if you don't know what came before. 

Def

[nuphoria]

Absobloodylutely 

As for changing your sales threads, all you have to do is be nice to a mod

[cerbera147]

Absobloodylutely 

As for changing your sales threads, all you have to do is be nice to a mod

  One of my pet peeves; sales threads where they don't get the title changed when everything's gone 

Also on other forums when they go into their sales thread after it's all been sold an delete all the info  Why 

TBH it can be a pain in the a$$ if you want to edit a post especially if you're an OCD nut like me and have realised a spelling mistake from yesterday    However, now I'm used to it It takes about 2 mins to PM a friendly mod to make the changes for you 

On a side note I'd really have loved to have seen this information on these 'exotic tools'; sounds intriguing 

[Andreas]

As for that special case of the guy gone wild one solution would be to ban him and restore the posts, if that's possible on simple machines. On vBullitin all mods can access all versions of an edited post as well as deleted post and that way restore the posts

[Grant Lamontagne]

As for that special case of the guy gone wild one solution would be to ban him and restore the posts, if that's possible on simple machines. On vBullitin all mods can access all versions of an edited post as well as deleted post and that way restore the posts

Restricting edit times was a lot more sensible solution that $300/year plus upgrades.

Def

[Andreas]

Of course, all I meant was that I know that solution is possible with vbullitin so I thought it might be with simple machines to. But i do understand your reasons for not wanting free edits, and I actually agree with the part about letting threads grow - it's just practical to have an updated first post at times

[Whoey]

start a new thread?

[Tsquare]

I use the unread topics option, but sometimes it is good to just have conversations about different things so we can grow closer as a online family.  It is good to hear others good fortune so we can rejoice with them and the bad things so we can keep them in our thoughts and prayers.  Even though I am a member of three forums this is where most of my time is spent.