Has anyone ever had problems with the police about their mt / knife

[Kampfer]

What cap said.

[Aloha]

It always great conversation when emotions can be removed and preaching is left to the pulpits.  Good response Capt. 

Kam don't you have 50 Cal in your front room  .  I'm pretty sure anyone entering would just as soon poop on the way out while apologizing 

[AimlessWanderer]

Gentlemen, thank you for your patient and balanced input. 

From what you have said, this greatly affirms my views of how different our cultures truly are, and I do not mean that in any better/worse type spectrum - just different, very VERY different.

BAS points taken in as much as control imposed NOW having no or adverse effect (potentially) to the initially perceived problem. I suppose the pre-existing saturation (probably the wrong word, but the best that comes to mind) of firearms in the wrong hands in problem areas, and the ability to bring in more without crossing borders has a negating effect to some extent. Here, there was never a high availability / ownership, and there are borders to cross to add to whatever is already floating round here. Plus of course, the lack of the pre-existing gun culture in the terms you have their (on both sides of the morality divide).

I'm not going to speculate on what may be best for moving forward under such circumstances, as I am too far removed from the perception and thought processes, culture and philosophies. I will just humbly sit upon the fence, accept your opinion as your opinion, and remain an outside observer too removed to form my own definitive standpoint 

Cap'n, I haven't watched the vids yet, but I will. I will say respectively that I'm certain these will be biased in a "pro" direction  I suspect there won't be as many US citizens who walk amongst us here at MTO who take the opposing opinion, which is a shame as I would welcome the same polite, patient and balanced views from them too. However, I being such an emotive topic for you guys, I fear we may lose track of our regular decorum too easily and it become an unpleasant locked thread.

I have seen the US as a very different world as here for a long time, different in so many poignant ways. I do wonder though if the guys there realise just how different we actually are, or if the perception of "us" there is one of a similar world but just with laws they don't understand.

[captain spaulding]

Cap'n, I haven't watched the vids yet, but I will. I will say respectively that I'm certain these will be biased in a "pro" direction I suspect there won't be as many US citizens who walk amongst us here at MTO who take the opposing opinion, which is a shame as I would welcome the same polite, patient and balanced views from them too. However, I being such an emotive topic for you guys, I fear we may lose track of our regular decorum too easily and it become an unpleasant locked thread.

I mean they were definitely made by someone pro firearms, but its not a movie, documentary, or anything like that. Simply security video or news video of guns being used to save their own lives.

[BASguy]

50ft, I will just clarify my position as being pro gun, but I will add that I personally don't get to concerned about other people's views on the matter.  Gun ownership is a right for every citizen of the United States as guaranteed by our constitution.  The lawful exercise of that right is up to each individual and I respect their own personal decisions as long as they don't attempt to infringe on mine.
I will add that the points I made to you are, by and large, statements of fact that can be verified by anyone willing to spend the time.  Reality and statistics are the reason that anti-gun movements have been overwhelmingly unsuccessful in efforts to remove guns from our culture.  In areas they have succeeded in restricting the rights to carry, the record speaks for itself and its not favorable.

I will add, I certainly respect your views on the matter.


Sent from 9 miles from the face of the sun

[AimlessWanderer]

To be honest BAS, it does make sense for the reasons I was guessing at earlier. We Brits can get a lot of flak from your side of the pond for the way we do things with firearms etc, but it's not always considered or understood that we are coming from an entirely different start point.

Your anti crowd are up against too many aspects:

Constitutional right - we never got that. We only formed "militias" back when we were whacking each other with farm implements 

Historic gun culture - we never had that. A relatively few people had firearms they are no longer allowed (handguns), but the established aspects of gun culture here are predominantly sport and pest control in rural areas, mostly with shotguns.

Large percentage of firearms in circulation - guess what, we never had that either.

Ease of replacement. Over there it would be significantly easier to bring in additional items from more relaxed states/counties. If we go to a different county, or even cross over into Scotland or Wales, we have pretty much the same situation.

Everything here leans to anti gun because we never had them, or never in legal circulation with justification for using on another person. Likewise it seems (from here) everything your side leans in favour of pro gun because you've never been without them. No doubt our way of working seems as alien to you, as your way of working does to us.  I should clarify that I am anti-gun for here, based on our current society, but I strongly believe other countries should make their own decisions. There may come a time when I do think it's appropriate for the UK to rethink and arm joe public, but I am thankful we are not there yet 

[BASguy]

I have to say it's certainly an education hanging out around here.  Guns and knives are interesting to guys all over the world it would seem.  Makes sense to me


Sent from 9 miles from the face of the sun

[Aloha]

I have to say it's certainly an education hanging out around here.  Guns and knives are interesting to guys all over the world it would seem.  Makes sense to me


Sent from 9 miles from the face of the sun

It really is and not just from the guys abroad.  I learn stuff from folk from other states as well. 


@50, very well put.  Even within the states there are culturally different impressions on firearms.  I'm glad this topic has gone so well on all sides.  I really enjoyed reading and learning as well.   

[dks]

In addition to what I and others mentioned previously it should be added that gun ownership in many countries is higher than the US, for military and culture reasons.

In many  countries there is mandatory military service (for a few years), which continues even after you leave the regular army (reserves). This means that just about every man aged 18 to at least 50 will have an assault rifle in their procession, in their house that is, and a plentiful supply of bullets (issued), again in their house (well, OK, not the Swiss    )  and the training to use it.

Adding this to the widely spread hunting culture - shotgun ownership -  and you could easily have 3, 4 or 10 guns in a household. Here, many guns were confiscated by the British in the 1950s and the current law, originating from that time, was designed so as to stop people from having small firearms (limit on barrel length and no rifling) though this has been relaxed lately, allowing rifled air pistols. So, going into someones house, for criminal reasons, carries a serious risk.

You are not, however, allowed to go around  with guns, unless you have a just reason, like going hunting/shooting targets, going for military training....

Strangely very few people would use their army rifles to kill others, in anger, and most such events, very few again, involve shotguns, usually being used for intimidation.

Interestingly, this year, there was a very unusual crime committed, where one person actually chased and killed 3 people, but, this was done with a kitchen knife, he took from the kitchen after he argued with them (crimes of this magnitude happen once a decade). 

The anti gun lobby (they are everywhere..) ignored that and did not call for a ban on kitchen knives... Had he used a gun they would have been up in arms.....   

More on that story, in English, here : http://www.cyprusnewsreport.com/2015/11/relief-as-manhunt-ends-for-limassol-triple-homicide-suspect/

[Kampfer]

Kam don't you have 50 Cal in your front room  . 

I can not work on a 50 cal alone by myself. 
It is a Danish 8mm anti craft gun over 100 years old. Still works like brand new.

Just in case of Red Dawn, or the empire strikes back

[Styerman]

As a sixty four year old guy , wearing work clothes , I'm totally below the radar .

Chris

[captain spaulding]

As a sixty four year old guy , wearing work clothes , I'm totally below the radar .

Chris

Not anymore. 

[Sea Monster]

While I am the type to agree with you I don't mess around with carrying illegal knives around here. Certain knives can land you a felony instantly. I don't really feel like going to prison, being a felon for the rest of my life, and losing basically all my rights (including the right to own a firearm) over a knife. I carry what is legal at all times.

Off hand I don't know the implications for any given state, but knowing my beloved country, I suspect it would be a fine, and it would not go before the courts unless I appealed it.

In some states you can't buy blades of a certain size without a "collectors permit" There's no particular restrictions on getting these permits (maybe a police check?), as long as you're willing to pay the fees and charges.

Much like our gun laws really, it's not so much what you can and can't own, it's how much you're willing to pay in licensing and registration.

What you can't and can't carry is another thing.

We simply don't have a "self defense" clause. If you're carrying something ahead of time for self defense, you are effectively the aggressor.

Self defense if a tricky one, on the rare occasion I am involved in a scuffle, I try to walk away.
It is unmanning in some ways, but if in self defense I over-do it (in the eyes of the courts), I become the assailant, regardless of whether I started the altercation.

I've lived in urban areas, will illegally owned guns being used around me for criminal activities, and I've lived in rural areas, with legally owned guns being used (both responsibly and irresponsibly) around me.

I don't know which one I felt more or less safe in.

If I had to have any input on the "right" to bare arms, I don't feel any need to carry a sidearm to the shops, but I also don't particularly see the need to the police to do it either.

They can have access to them if the need arises, but having them walk everywhere bristling with guns, tasers, stab vests, and performance pursuit cars puts me offside before we even begin.


(For anyone who is wondering, I am a rifle user and enthusiast. I enjoy target shooting, and I have no qualms with shooting pests, food, or quad bike riders)

I defend anyone's right to access to whatever tickles their fancy, and their right to make whatever damn decisions they like.
I also defend their community's right to ostracize them for their actions (with the complicated caveat of it being the community decision, not the fiat of alarmists or whoever is "in charge" on any given day)

[BASguy]

If I had to have any input on the "right" to bare arms, I don't feel any need to carry a sidearm to the shops, but I also don't particularly see the need to the police to do it either.

They can have access to them if the need arises, but having them walk everywhere bristling with guns, tasers, stab vests, and performance pursuit cars puts me offside before we even begin.

In the world we live in now, I find that highly disturbing no matter where you live.  Terrorism has taken a whole new persona.  I want them able to protect themselves, otherwise they can't do anyone else a whole helluva lot of good.


Sent from 9 miles from the face of the sun

[Sea Monster]

Police are there to keep the peace in a civil way, and act in response to civilian crimes - public urination, petty theft, the odd fisticuffs.

We have TAG, and other agencies to deal with "terrorist"* threats, or other threats against our people.

I don't expect or want my domestic police force to have the obligation or power to deal with extreme situations.


This is veering wildly from the initial issue of pocket knives

I looked up the knife laws for my current state - SAKs are in the same category as Bayonets. Go figure.
 (That category is "can be carried with a lawful reason" FWIW)


*Australia is having a hard time telling the difference between "service station hold up by anyone other than a middle class white guy" and "terrorist threat", not that I want to cast aspersions on our political leaders or educated journalists....

[BASguy]

Police are there to keep the peace in a civil way, and act in response to civilian crimes - public urination, petty theft, the odd fisticuffs.

We have TAG, and other agencies to deal with "terrorist"* threats, or other threats against our people.

I'm sure they are an effective group, so hopefully they can be everywhere all the time.  Here in the states we have more tactical response units than you can possibly imagine, I just don't want to ever want to be involved in a situation tailored for their experience.  Under the very best of circumstances it could take the local police several minutes to arrive.


Sent from 9 miles from the face of the sun

[BASguy]

On a side note, I was in Home Depot today and a uniformed State Police officer was in their getting some PVC fittings.  He pulled a traditional slip joint out of his pocket and opened up a cardboard box to get a few more fittings.  As I was next to him I couldn't help but notice the modern tactical knife on his pocket.  I believe it was one of those automatic ones as it had the glass punch on the end.  I asked him why he didn't use that and he said, that's just for show.  I then said, well at least you've got it break a window if you need.  He chuckled and said this works better, as he pulled a center punch out of one his duty belt cases.  Got to hand it to him, that's a man who knows how to be prepared and also knows his tools.


Sent from 9 miles from the face of the sun

[Sea Monster]

I'm sure they are an effective group, so hopefully they can be everywhere all the time.

We are 






 


  I asked him why he didn't use that and he said, that's just for show.  I then said, well at least you've got it break a window if you need.  He chuckled and said this works better, as he pulled a center punch out of one his duty belt cases.  Got to hand it to him, that's a man who knows how to be prepared and also knows his tools.

Out comes the bureaucrat it me - I wonder what legal nightmares would be if there was an incident and he wasn't using standard issue equipment etc etc.

[Mercury]

Most police forces here don't have standard issue glass breakers and pocket knives.  They are free to carry whatever they want in that arena.  That's the beauty of our police force, they are allowed to be well equipped.  We have some real nutcases here in the US, lately there have been several instances of assault specifically against Police.  Scary as hell. 

I have to say, I am seriously impressed at how this thread has gone.  It's been a fantastically civil derailment that was quite an entertaining read.  You guys all deserve a pat on the back for the discussion presented here. 

As for utilizing my rights, I'm very much with Powernoodle: if you don't exercise it it is tantamount to losing it.  Here in Texas, it is perfectly legal for a law abiding citizen who is legally allowed to own a gun to carry said gun loaded in their vehicle.  Do I need my pistol when I'm driving to Walmart or getting gas?  I live in a really nice area, but since there is a really, really bad area less than 15 minutes away, you never know.  One thing I do know is my wife and kids and I will be alive to tell you if something does happen, because my gun goes everywhere I do.  I don't have a CHL yet, but I will be getting mine this year.  Without getting any more political that the thread has already, I believe it is a necessity here in the US.

I also carry my Leatherman in every single situation I possibly can, whether I think I will need it or not.  I wear it to funerals, weddings, out to dinner, everywhere.  There are three places my leatherman doesn't ride on my hip: the shower, the gym, and bed.  Just like my gun, it's pretty close by even when I'm in those places.  I never have issues with the Police because I'm operating within my local and federal laws, and I'm not hurting or planning to hurt anyone. 

[AimlessWanderer]

For those of us who have no idea, what is CHL?

[Mercury]

For those of us who have no idea, what is CHL?

Sorry, Concealed Handgun License.  Also known as a CCWP, Concealed Carry Weapon Permit, in some areas.  CHL is the official designation here in Texas. 

[Aloha]

If I had a gun and could carry it legally I think I'd carry it openly in a holster. 

I wear my LM on my belt pretty much every day.  I'm currently carrying a OG LM Wave in a Leather LM sheath.  I don't often carry a knife clipped to my pocket much.  I do carry a fixed blade on my work belt tho with all the other stuff on my belt neither my clients nor passer by's give me a first glance let alone second  .

I don't see myself getting a gun tho but I think that's how I'd roll.  Leather holster with a wheel gun  .  Maybe just a boyhood fantasy of being John Wayne. 

[captain spaulding]

If I had a gun and could carry it legally I think I'd carry it openly in a holster. 

I wear my LM on my belt pretty much every day.  I'm currently carrying a OG LM Wave in a Leather LM sheath.  I don't often carry a knife clipped to my pocket much.  I do carry a fixed blade on my work belt tho with all the other stuff on my belt neither my clients nor passer by's give me a first glance let alone second  .

I don't see myself getting a gun tho but I think that's how I'd roll.  Leather holster with a wheel gun  .  Maybe just a boyhood fantasy of being John Wayne.

If you get a Concealed carry permit it has to be CONCEALED. I believe you can get a exposed carry permit, but its reserved for security and things like that. I know that's not what you are saying, but figured it was worth a mention.

The only real reason why I would not want to carry openly is someone could decide to target you (I know it sounds weird). Someone could also try to grab it from you when you are not aware. The best part of a concealed carry permit is the unknown factor. No one knows who is carrying and who is not so you can gain the upper hand with unpredictability. That's not the correct word to use, but I cannot think of the right one.

[Aloha]

Thanks Capt.  I was more just thinking out loud about how I'd like to carry IF I had one.  I do have a client that shoots and has some nice leather holsters she had made. 

I think the old western look sits well with me.   

[anditsgone]

I respect all your'e statements and opinions but i still don't think it is wise to go to the absolute maximum of the law just to make a statement that you rightfully can use that. If i where a cop. And i would see someone in a  populated area with an AR 15 i would be scared as hell and very pissed when i found out he was only testing the law and getting some youtube vieuws.

I agree that a weapon is some sort of tool and i am a little pissed that we in the netherlands are not allowed to have any kind of fire arm. Only a .22lr hunting rifle alone would be a big upgrade
I am not a big fan of the forbid everything law because i dont think (UK is an example) that this solves the problem with knives and guns.

 

[BASguy]

Here in AZ the law allows for open or concealed carry for any citizen.  You can have (as I do) an actual CCW (carry concealed weapon) permit.  This particular permit is a holdover from the days where you were not allowed concealed carry without one.  Nowadays (since we got right with the 2nd Amendment) they aren't necessary, but they do allow for some additional restricted area carry privileges and also aid in faster background checks for purchases.   
@anditsgone, it's not at all uncommon to see someone in a public setting with an AR15 slung over their shoulder.  There is not much purpose other than exercising their rights.  As Powernoodle has stated, this sort of thing MUST be done on a regular basis to assure the Liberal mindset is held in check.  This is a constitutional right of our citizenry, not to be infringed by the government.  I can understand how it may make you uneasy, but if you were part of this culture, I think you might have a different perspective.
I personally would be far more concerned about the dude with a kitchen knife.......they are the weapon of choice for actual real world assaults.


Sent from 9 miles from the face of the sun

[Mercury]

Beginning tomorrow here in Texas, everyone who has a concealed carry permit may also open carry their pistol.  Once I get my permit I will absolutely be open carrying mine.  Statistics show reduced crime rates in cities with open carry.  Not only that, it is a right and I do believe in exercising my rights to whatever extent I feel is necessary.   I'm the type of guy who won't do harm to anyone(unless they are harming me or mine), but when someone tells me I shouldn't carry something just so I make others comfortable, that's when the biggest knife I can legally carry comes out.  If I get told by my local government that I shouldn't carry my rifle in my car because it makes people uncomfortable, guess what, that bad boy is getting mounted in the back seat.  Infringement of rights happens largely by public consent and atrophy of giving a damn.  I won't break the law, but I won't let my rights be squashed due to the feelings of people who don't understand what they are griping about.  This applies to knives/Mt's just as much as it does guns.

All that said, there is a line.  Unprovoked, I feel that discretion is king.  I don't brandish my blades in public.  I use the smallest knife that will get the job done, and I carry a modest sized blade for comfort if nothing else.  I don't carry my rifle in my car, mainly because it's a pain to do responsibly on a daily basis.  I don't ever let anyone see my pistol from my front door to the glove box(that's the law though).  And I sure as hell don't walk down the street with my shotgun or rifle over my shoulder, even though I could.  But all of that is due to the fact that no one here is telling me I can't carry to the extent of the law. 

[BASguy]

Congratulations to Texas.  You fellas are creeping up on being right with the Federal law.  Hopefully that silly requirement of the CCW disappears entirely in your future, but it sounds like you are on the right track.



Sent from 9 miles from the face of the sun

[Mercury]

Congratulations to Texas.  You fellas are creeping up on being right with the Federal law.  Hopefully that silly requirement of the CCW disappears entirely in your future, but it sounds like you are on the right track.



Sent from 9 miles from the face of the sun

Yea, our state is doing pretty good.  They passed a law that state law overrides all city and county knife laws, so San Antonio's ridiculous knife restrictions went out the window. 

[BASguy]

Congratulations to Texas.  You fellas are creeping up on being right with the Federal law.  Hopefully that silly requirement of the CCW disappears entirely in your future, but it sounds like you are on the right track.



Sent from 9 miles from the face of the sun

Yea, our state is doing pretty good.  They passed a law that state law overrides all city and county knife laws, so San Antonio's ridiculous knife restrictions went out the window.

Yeah, I've heard there are more of those making their way through state legislatures now.  It's ridiculous that local laws exist governing knives/etc.  There is no point to them other than to be more restrictive than state law, and at that point you are just creating chaos unnecessarily.  These restrictions have been successfully challenged in the courts over last few years because actual statistics show there is no such thing as a crime epidemic related to knives, and what little there is is 90+% kitchen knife involved.   It's good to see that some states are just getting on board and eliminating the nonsense of cluttering up the system wth useless litigation. 


Sent from 9 miles from the face of the sun