Did that California case affect only LM?

[ReamerPunch]

To my understanding no Leatherman tools say USA on them anymore. How about other companies? Some Gerber tools have USA on them.

[dks]

The law affects all companies. If they say us made then they do so in accordance with the law.

[kirk13]

 

What Califonia case?

[Outback in Idaho]

 Ken COLGAN et al., Plaintiffs and Respondents, v. LEATHERMAN TOOL GROUP, INC.

 Leatherman gets partial victory in $18 million suit

 California closely scrutinizes “Made in the USA” claims

[sLaughterMed]

To my understanding no Leatherman tools say USA on them anymore. How about other companies? Some Gerber tools have USA on them.

That would be because those Gerber Tools (namley the MP 400 & 600 series) are made completely in the US, as defined by the law in question. Gerber has military contracts for the MP600, and one of the requirements is that they be USA made. Otherwise, Gerber would lose that (very profitable) contract.

[Smashie]

Is there a simple explanation of this? My head hurts after reading those links 

[sLaughterMed]

Is there a simple explanation of this? My head hurts after reading those links 

Basically, not enough of the parts came from the US (average of 5 parts out of 30 were foreign made) for Leatherman tools to be legally considered "USA Made". So LM got sued, Leatherman won (kinda of) but they still had to remove the USA stamping on any of the tools coming from their factory, which is why many tools from immediately after that case actually have the USA stamp ground off.

[Smashie]

Is there a simple explanation of this? My head hurts after reading those links 

Basically, not enough of the parts came from the US (average of 5 parts out of 30 were foreign made) for Leatherman tools to be legally considered "USA Made". So LM got sued, Leatherman won (kinda of) but they still had to remove the USA stamping on any of the tools coming from their factory, which is why many tools from immediately after that case actually have the USA stamp ground off.

Ok, so they won, but they lost. That makes perfect sense

I do remember the Swiss watch companies going through a similar thing a few years back, but they managed to get the law changed in their favour

[captain spaulding]

Is there a simple explanation of this? My head hurts after reading those links 

Basically, not enough of the parts came from the US (average of 5 parts out of 30 were foreign made) for Leatherman tools to be legally considered "USA Made". So LM got sued, Leatherman won (kinda of) but they still had to remove the USA stamping on any of the tools coming from their factory, which is why many tools from immediately after that case actually have the USA stamp ground off.

Ok, so they won, but they lost. That makes perfect sense

I do remember the Swiss watch companies going through a similar thing a few years back, but they managed to get the law changed in their favour

I think the law is fair and even if a single component or part was imported or made outside of the USA they should not be able to say USA made on the product.

As far as the Swiss ruling. Getting the law changed in their favor seems like they are now lying to their customers.

[dks]

Watch companies are experts at the fake origin/history game.

[Smashie]

Is there a simple explanation of this? My head hurts after reading those links 

Basically, not enough of the parts came from the US (average of 5 parts out of 30 were foreign made) for Leatherman tools to be legally considered "USA Made". So LM got sued, Leatherman won (kinda of) but they still had to remove the USA stamping on any of the tools coming from their factory, which is why many tools from immediately after that case actually have the USA stamp ground off.

Ok, so they won, but they lost. That makes perfect sense

I do remember the Swiss watch companies going through a similar thing a few years back, but they managed to get the law changed in their favour

I think the law is fair and even if a single component or part was imported or made outside of the USA they should not be able to say USA made on the product.

As far as the Swiss ruling. Getting the law changed in their favor seems like they are now lying to their customers.

Isn't the Vic corkscrew made in France? Oh and they have been for decades

[captain spaulding]

Is there a simple explanation of this? My head hurts after reading those links 

Basically, not enough of the parts came from the US (average of 5 parts out of 30 were foreign made) for Leatherman tools to be legally considered "USA Made". So LM got sued, Leatherman won (kinda of) but they still had to remove the USA stamping on any of the tools coming from their factory, which is why many tools from immediately after that case actually have the USA stamp ground off.

Ok, so they won, but they lost. That makes perfect sense

I do remember the Swiss watch companies going through a similar thing a few years back, but they managed to get the law changed in their favour

I think the law is fair and even if a single component or part was imported or made outside of the USA they should not be able to say USA made on the product.

As far as the Swiss ruling. Getting the law changed in their favor seems like they are now lying to their customers.

Isn't the Vic corkscrew made in France? Oh and they have been for decades

That changes nothing about what I said. They should abide by the same guidelines in my opinion. 

[Padre]

Its nickpicking if 100% of the product have to be made in said country.
I'm pretty sure that quarries in US take metal ores from around the world, so much of the alloys might be from anywhere.

[mikekoz]

  I read about this a while back. Apparently some of the tools themselves have parts made in Canada, and the sheaths that are included with some, are from Mexico and China.

[Poncho65]

What got the case against them started I think Was the fact that the company where they got their plier heads cast (which was in the US for a long time) moved to Mexico and rather than change companies they just kept using them That company was casting USA on them still

[ThundahBeagle]

Hold up, hold up, hold up hold up!

Leatherman KNOWINGLY continued to use a plyers supplier from out of country, while allowing the stamping of the tools USA? Am I reading this right?

What is the name of this supplier and when did they move to Mexico? LM obviously knew they were in Mexico, what with customs forms and trucking and the ADDRESS on the invoice and all. All LM had to do was change the specs of the product not to be marked USA

OR...

Why would you not find a US supplier and make a nice deal with them?

I once worked in a manufacturing plant that did private label work. We did WHATEVER OUR CUSTOMER TOLD US TO. Nothing more. And only less when we thought we could get away with it. Mostly because we had multiple customers we were supplying, and THEY were the ones telling us how they wanted it. That was always part of the costing and contract.

When you build your tool around players, and call it made in USA...the one thing that should be made in USA is the plyers, don't ta think?


For the record, My PST ll and both OG Super Tools are stamped USA, while my  2007 Surge is not. I buy US, or even more local whenever possible, but that does not preclude me from buying foreign made items of quality.

[ThundahBeagle]

Still love Leatherman, though. Designed, Made (mostly)or assembled in USA, or wherever, but quality tools and 25 year warranty, hard to beat. Even Craftsman can't say that anymore

[King_Gorilla]

I appreciate when a company manages to make their product entirely in their country, but I think people make WAY too big a deal out of this.  I'm not just talking about knives and multi-tools.  People alway talk about how terrible it is for a company to import parts from another country or move their manufacturing plants to another country.  I think companies should be clear about where their products were made because people care about it and transparency is a good thing. 

But I feel like this intolerance for foreign trade is dangerous.  I'm not an expert in economics but I've read some books.  As far as I can tell, as long as the companies maintain the desired quality of their products, engaging in open foreign trade will keep prices down for us, (the consumers) and have positive results for our economy.  (as well as the economy of the countries we are trading with) 

  

[El Corkscrew]

Is there a simple explanation of this? My head hurts after reading those links 

Basically, not enough of the parts came from the US (average of 5 parts out of 30 were foreign made) for Leatherman tools to be legally considered "USA Made". So LM got sued, Leatherman won (kinda of) but they still had to remove the USA stamping on any of the tools coming from their factory, which is why many tools from immediately after that case actually have the USA stamp ground off.

Ok, so they won, but they lost. That makes perfect sense

I do remember the Swiss watch companies going through a similar thing a few years back, but they managed to get the law changed in their favour

I think the law is fair and even if a single component or part was imported or made outside of the USA they should not be able to say USA made on the product.

As far as the Swiss ruling. Getting the law changed in their favor seems like they are now lying to their customers.

Isn't the Vic corkscrew made in France? Oh and they have been for decades

That changes nothing about what I said. They should abide by the same guidelines in my opinion.

agreed, captain

[Syph007]

I appreciate when a company manages to make their product entirely in their country, but I think people make WAY too big a deal out of this.  I'm not just talking about knives and multi-tools.  People alway talk about how terrible it is for a company to import parts from another country or move their manufacturing plants to another country.  I think companies should be clear about where their products were made because people care about it and transparency is a good thing. 

But I feel like this intolerance for foreign trade is dangerous.  I'm not an expert in economics but I've read some books.  As far as I can tell, as long as the companies maintain the desired quality of their products, engaging in open foreign trade will keep prices down for us, (the consumers) and have positive results for our economy.  (as well as the economy of the countries we are trading with) 

  

This has nothing to do with the quality of the product (LM plier head in this case)

The main problem with saying made in USA when the plier heads specifically weren't, is that many in the US will spend MORE for a product made in the US to support US factories and workers.  So if a product made a false claim and got a sale as a result that, its pretty slimey.

For example, i will always happily pay more for a product made in north america, than anything cheaper made elsewhere.  That's my call and Im not alone on that.

[El Corkscrew]

I appreciate when a company manages to make their product entirely in their country, but I think people make WAY too big a deal out of this.  I'm not just talking about knives and multi-tools.  People alway talk about how terrible it is for a company to import parts from another country or move their manufacturing plants to another country.  I think companies should be clear about where their products were made because people care about it and transparency is a good thing. 

But I feel like this intolerance for foreign trade is dangerous.  I'm not an expert in economics but I've read some books.  As far as I can tell, as long as the companies maintain the desired quality of their products, engaging in open foreign trade will keep prices down for us, (the consumers) and have positive results for our economy.  (as well as the economy of the countries we are trading with) 

  

This has nothing to do with the quality of the product (LM plier head in this case)

The main problem with saying made in USA when the plier heads specifically weren't, is that many in the US will spend MORE for a product made in the US to support US factories and workers.  So if a product made a false claim and got a sale as a result that, its pretty slimey.

For example, i will always happily pay more for a product made in north america, than anything cheaper made elsewhere.  That's my call and Im not alone on that.

yup

[Don Pablo]

I appreciate when a company manages to make their product entirely in their country, but I think people make WAY too big a deal out of this.  I'm not just talking about knives and multi-tools.  People alway talk about how terrible it is for a company to import parts from another country or move their manufacturing plants to another country.  I think companies should be clear about where their products were made because people care about it and transparency is a good thing. 

But I feel like this intolerance for foreign trade is dangerous.  I'm not an expert in economics but I've read some books.  As far as I can tell, as long as the companies maintain the desired quality of their products, engaging in open foreign trade will keep prices down for us, (the consumers) and have positive results for our economy.  (as well as the economy of the countries we are trading with) 

  

This has nothing to do with the quality of the product (LM plier head in this case)

The main problem with saying made in USA when the plier heads specifically weren't, is that many in the US will spend MORE for a product made in the US to support US factories and workers.  So if a product made a false claim and got a sale as a result that, its pretty slimey.

For example, i will always happily pay more for a product made in north america, than anything cheaper made elsewhere.  That's my call and Im not alone on that.

yup

But... But... So much smurf is Made in USA... 

[El Corkscrew]

I appreciate when a company manages to make their product entirely in their country, but I think people make WAY too big a deal out of this.  I'm not just talking about knives and multi-tools.  People alway talk about how terrible it is for a company to import parts from another country or move their manufacturing plants to another country.  I think companies should be clear about where their products were made because people care about it and transparency is a good thing. 

But I feel like this intolerance for foreign trade is dangerous.  I'm not an expert in economics but I've read some books.  As far as I can tell, as long as the companies maintain the desired quality of their products, engaging in open foreign trade will keep prices down for us, (the consumers) and have positive results for our economy.  (as well as the economy of the countries we are trading with) 

  

This has nothing to do with the quality of the product (LM plier head in this case)

The main problem with saying made in USA when the plier heads specifically weren't, is that many in the US will spend MORE for a product made in the US to support US factories and workers.  So if a product made a false claim and got a sale as a result that, its pretty slimey.

For example, i will always happily pay more for a product made in north america, than anything cheaper made elsewhere.  That's my call and Im not alone on that.

yup

But... But... So much smurf is Made in USA... 

I get my smurf straight from the Belgians... 100%

[Don Pablo]

I appreciate when a company manages to make their product entirely in their country, but I think people make WAY too big a deal out of this.  I'm not just talking about knives and multi-tools.  People alway talk about how terrible it is for a company to import parts from another country or move their manufacturing plants to another country.  I think companies should be clear about where their products were made because people care about it and transparency is a good thing. 

But I feel like this intolerance for foreign trade is dangerous.  I'm not an expert in economics but I've read some books.  As far as I can tell, as long as the companies maintain the desired quality of their products, engaging in open foreign trade will keep prices down for us, (the consumers) and have positive results for our economy.  (as well as the economy of the countries we are trading with) 

  

This has nothing to do with the quality of the product (LM plier head in this case)

The main problem with saying made in USA when the plier heads specifically weren't, is that many in the US will spend MORE for a product made in the US to support US factories and workers.  So if a product made a false claim and got a sale as a result that, its pretty slimey.

For example, i will always happily pay more for a product made in north america, than anything cheaper made elsewhere.  That's my call and Im not alone on that.

yup

But... But... So much smurf is Made in USA... 

I get my smurf straight from the Belgians... 100%

Mine is from hollywood. 

[El Corkscrew]

yup
But... But... So much smurf is Made in USA... 

I get my smurf straight from the Belgians... 100%
[/quote]
Mine is from hollywood. 
[/quote]

[/quote]


You can't fight city hall, and you can't defend hollywood...

[El Corkscrew]

I really smurfed up that last post.

Awl those quotes and brackets can get pretty tricky... 

[pomsbz]

Deleted, didn't realise how old this news was.

[kkokkolis]

I had similar discussions in other forums, for binoculars, telescopes, palmpilots, feta cheese, you name it.


The whole "made in" thing is secondary, as long as the product works and has the required standards of quality. Made in Japan was derogatory when I was a toddler, but now it's more like "make in consumers' heaven". The same for made in Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan etc a bit later. Now China. And later perhaps Singapore, India, Brazil, Poland etch. Next might be Liberia or Peru, who knows? Some countries go the opposite way, I won't name them. And some are static for years.
Here we have the "Made in EU" mark. What does this tell tothe consumers? Would it be the same if it is made in Germany or Greece? Or not in the EU but in Switzerland or Norway?
Here we have the "local" craze for edible things. I don't understand it. If the shepherd or the fisherman speaks Greek or English or Souahilly, does it matter for the quality of the meat or the fish? How?
I don't look what they say any more. Is it nice? Does it work? Is it stimulating to the mind? Does it taste good?




Maybe they could declare something like "80% made in the USA" according to laws of the future?

[gregozedobe]

Maybe they could declare something like "80% made in the USA" according to laws of the future?

A food labelling standard giving percentage of Australian grown ingredients has been introduced here (Oz) recently.

There seems to be two main reasons why Australians want to buy Australian:

1  Support your own economy (economic and patriotic)

2  Known safety standards.  A while back some people caught a disease (IIRC hepatitis) from imported frozen berries, and a nasty disease that decimated the local prawn (shrimp) farms was introduced by imported shrimp.

[El Corkscrew]

Maybe they could declare something like "80% made in the USA" according to laws of the future?

A food labelling standard giving percentage of Australian grown ingredients has been introduced here (Oz) recently.

There seems to be two main reasons why Australians want to buy Australian:

1  Support your own economy (economic and patriotic)

2  Known safety standards.  A while back some people caught a disease (IIRC hepatitis) from imported frozen berries, and a nasty disease that decimated the local prawn (shrimp) farms was introduced by imported shrimp.

daaaaaaaang that's crazy

Are you guys still dealing with the huge farm mouse problem?